Wow, that’s tough. Maybe the Etymotic ER2XR? It has that warmth in the lower mids, the proper amount of ear gain and slightly darker treble, similar to the 650/6XX. 3SE or XR might work too.
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I was closely looking at the BHSE at this point, so I’m happy to know I’m on the right path.
I know this is an odd question, but could you tell me how you’d compare the CRBN to the 1266 TC? And the Sasvana? I know they’re different types of headphones, but this comparison would tell me a LOT more about the CRBN’s based on how much info is already out there about the others.
And, no one has told me why they don’t recommend the Z10e. However, it’s been stated multiple times now. Can you provide any insight on this?
Much appreciated for your feedback as well!
So, I have excellent relationships w/ my home audio dealers, many are considered friends at this point. And, in all likelihood, I’ll engage with this hobby and build the same here. Because of that, I’d only work with them on returns that made sense, and be VERY open about it. I have zero intentions of abusing any sort of return policy.
That said, what I value in music is clarity and transparency. I’ve always loved softer highs (I can’t stand ear piercing / harsh treble), but balance is very important. In my theater, I have 5 subs, w/ 3x21" behind the screen. They’re there to dig deep when needed (they’ll play at 2 hz if asked), and help w/ modal response. And any one of the 5 subs I have could shake the room apart w/o breaking a sweat. HOWEVER, I have them setup to be blended as a single channel, and perfectly integrated into the other channels. They’re not turned up (I do have a mode for that if desired) as it’s unnatural and I don’t like it. I want it all to be perfectly blended and natural. But, I like to be able to turn up the entire system, and never feel like it’s lacking anywhere. I don’t want anything to stand out that shouldn’t. And, the cleaner / clearer the better. My speakers also have AMT’s in them, and I love the way they sound for strings, and higher notes. From there, I don’t know how else I could describe what I like in speakers. TBH, I haven’t heard many high end speakers that’d be at the caliber of mine or more. So, I might find that I would love compression drivers, but I have no experience with them to say. Most of the headphone market is like that for me at this point. Fortunately, swapping headphones is WAY easier and cheaper than an entire room of integrated speakers.
I hope that helps. But, I’m happy to try and clarify more if needed.
The Abyss is an extremely enjoyable headphone, and one of the most fun listens out there. I owned the original AB-1266, the Phi and Phi CC over several years. However, its tuning is peaky and quite colored. The fit is finicky - small changes in seal, which has to be pretty light to begin with, have dramatic effects on bass quantity and level (and how loud you can play without obvious distortion) - though when right its hard to beat there.
The CRBN are less fussy, much more comfortable, tonally FAR more even, have lower distortion/play cleaner, resolve more, hit pretty much as hard, but do not have the same level of bass output and do not match the level at which Abyss let you feel the bass against your ears/head (viscerality).
Reasons I would choose the AB-1266 over the CRBN today? Only if I was an abject, unabashed, basshead and/or I could not have a proper electrostatic amplifier.
The Susvara … well, I’m not a big fan to begin with (I get why people love them, I’m just not one of them) - though a lot of that has to do with the comedy-pricing in relation to the fit/finish/feel and build. Sound wise, they are certainly more tonally correct than the AB-1266, but I think CRBN takes them overall in that regard, mostly as we head down to the lower registers.
I also find the Susvara tend towards being a bit too laid back (which with some pieces comes across as them seeming “slow”) and ephemeral for the very-wide genre listening I engage in. In particular I find the bottom end lacks weight and impact/slam.
If my musical diet was all string quartets or small vocal jazz ensembles, the Susvara would be hard to beat (though I’d say any of the better electrostatics are as good in that regard), but it isn’t. I don’t find them convincing with Mahler nor with Trentemöller.
As for the Z10e …
I found the treble could be tetchy, the mids often seemed a bit rounded off, bass wasn’t as taut nor fast (i.e. not as controlled) as much less expensive options, and there were sins of both omission and commission. This included distinct cases where I could hear low-level distortion (which to be fair, could be a tube issue … but that’s not my problem), at least with electrostatics.
For essentially $7,000 I expect more refinement and technical capability.
Now, don’t get me wrong … I’m not saying it was actually “bad” or anything; I can see many people enjoying it just fine. We’re comparing some fairly rarefied gear here, using top-of-the-line components to do so. I liked it more than the AudioValve Solaris. And Audeze seemed to like it enough to use it at CanJam.
But would I spend my money on one, as a pure electrostatic headphone amplifier?
No.
As long as you’re either willing to use more than one box, or don’t need to drive speakers, conventional and electrostatic headphones all from one box then there are just better performing, better value and lower-priced options.
YMMV
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Amazing feedback! Thanks for being so detailed and comprehensive. If you wanted to push both conventional and electrostatic headphones, what would you recommend?
However, I think the BHSE is likely the go to at this point from what I’m reading.
If you mean from a single amplifier, I wouldn’t.
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If you’re able to stretch your budget at all or find them used I’d highly recommend taking a look at the Moondrop Variations or the Dunu SA6.
I can’t comment on the ones you’re considering as I haven’t heard them beyond the Falcon Pro briefly. I do find FiiO IEMs have a lot of perceived value but when you compare them to similar offerings in their respective price ranges, they generally don’t compete. I know there are plenty of people that like Etymotic IEMs but I can’t get around the way they feel like they are violating my ears with their deep insertion. They also tend to be a little too flat sounding for my personal tastes, regardless if it’s their reference or bass versions.
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That is a great attitude, for the record it was not directed at you but rather the larger audience. As I mentioned before it seems to be the workaround some folks recommend to try expensive gear.
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Something I haven’t really explored/considered at all is DAPs. For those that don’t know, I have no personal computer or music collection (other than vinyl) and listen to all my digital music via Quboz off my iPad.
Any reason to consider a DAP?
Agreed. But every once in a while the best intentioned purchaser just makes a mistake and it’s a nice remedy if not abused. I’ve returned I think 2 items over time and was grateful that I could, but it’s certainly not a get out of jail free card. I also try to buy whatever is replacing the returned item from the same vendor.
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Yes, if you are on the road they’re terrific and a nice alternative to a phone/DAC combo. I’ve owned the Astell & Kern SR25 and SE180 and they sound wonderful and work well. Worth looking into.
I combined it with the Focal Celestee for a great commute kit.
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iPod touch and pretty much any Android-based DAPs will want your attention.
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If used for travel, I’ll take the opposite side and say no. If you’re just streaming, a DAP is a wasted investment, especially if the primary use will be on-the-go. Any performance increases one might hear due to a better DAC and/or amp will likely be negated by the noisy environment of your travels. Might as well just use your phone with a dragonfly or iPhone dongle then. A DAP also likely won’t having streaming capabilities when you’re out and about with it (no wifi or cellular data to use).
For convenience factor, or for using portabley while in bed or on the couch, a DAP is quite awesome. No annoying text messages, calls or other interruptions that a phone would incur, plus a higher quality DAC and amp section. But at that point, you have to ask yourself “are my IEMs or headphones high fidelity enough to hear those differences?” Only you can decide that.
So, it really depends on the use-case.
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Just thought I would report back.
Listening to my all-time favorite record (Buena Vista Social Club at Carnegie Hall) off the Luxman preamp running into my Marantz integrated and KEF Meta’s. Bliss.
Also upgraded the mat on the SL-1500C to the Herbie’s Way Excellent.
Now. . .have you found any benefit on turntable weights?
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One more question for you. What DAC(s) do you recommend to pair with this all? I have a good amount of lossless audio on a media server, can easily set Roon back up, and pay for Apple Music (for full Spacial Audio - which is incredible in a dedicated theater room with full atmos, and lossless audio).
I know some people run some high end Chord setups to upscale, then DAC the content. No idea if that’s necessary either. But, I’m sure you’ve seen / heard it all, and would love to know your thoughts on where the diminishing returns really start to fall off and not make any noticeable sense (difference).
I definitely agree with its usefulness in bed or outside, etc. On my commute I either load up a micro SD card or feed the DAP wifi via my phone’s hotspot.
I’ve not heard them but the impressions I’ve read online would seem to suggest you might find the qualities you’re looking for in dynamic driver IEMs and, more specifically, in the Drop + JVC HA-FDX1 or in the Moondrop Kato. Both are in your price range.
I’d also second @taronlissimore’s recommendation of the Dunu SA6, which is a great IEM and one that punches well above its weight. I’d describe its sound as absolutely being full and lush and having plenty of presence (if, by this, you mean a nice mid-range emphasis). If you’re able to reach up to that price point, you might also consider the excellent Oriolus Isabellae.
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Just a month or two ago we had a thread on Spacial Audio.
I think it’s great in the movies. Please take a look at the thread for a lot of the other folks views. Interesting technology. It might be good for music originally recorded in spatial, but I’m not a fan of what they’ve done remastering older music for spatial. Except for the Jackson 5 who sound awesome in Spatial.
@ericrosenfield . Well I haven’t heard the B2 but I was going to mention the FDX1 as well. But….
This could very well be how you would feel about the FDX1. I love the timbre of this set though I don’t know if it’s as technically capable as the B2 but you may enjoy it’s warmth more. I have been hesitant to try the B2 for this very reason. I’m learning I value timbre over technicalities . Well, I want both but 
I have both the FDX1(woodie) and the FW01(dual-carbon …which gets pretty high praise even from Crin)… I much prefer the FDX1.
Also something to note about the JVC is that fit can be real a PITA… Xelastecs ended up being the fix for me.
I also have the ER4XR. Had zero problems with the fit but it’s superrr boring to me. Very flat and blah IMO. If you find B2 bland you may feel the same with the Ety, though the 4xr is the only one I’ve heard.
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Assuming you mean a BHSE/CRBN pairing when you say “all this”, it is such a resolving combination that I would lean towards the better DACs out of the gate. And while diminishing returns are always a factor (and punishingly so with DACs in particular), I think the performance of the BHSE/CRBN is such that it warrants the best source you can reasonably manage.
In (rough) price order, I’d be looking at something like the Yggdrasil OG (or maybe the LIM or MIL versions, but I’ve not heard either), Spring 3, Matrix X-Sabre Pro 3, May, Hugo TT2, Wavedream, DAVE, Bartok and so on.
There are many other options, and what works best for one won’t necessarily please another.
I wouldn’t say it is necessary.
The BHSE/CRBN (or Carbon/CRBN) combination can certainly fully exploit such a setup. I choose to run a Chord Blu-Mk2 (as an M-Scaler) and DAVE combination myself. Though you can step into that by adding an M-Scaler to any of Chord’s DACs at a later time if you want. It’s perhaps worth noting that I find DAVE on its own better than an M-Scaler/Hugo TT2 combination. But again, it can be done progressively.
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