General purchase advice: Ask your questions/for advice here!

[timiambeing]

HI - I currently have a budget to lower mid-range set-up and find myself with around £600-800 to splash out on an incremental upgrade to hopefully up the SQ a notch or two. My current set-up is:

Raspberry Pi 4/Allo DigiOne HAT running coax spdif → Soncoz la-qxd1 DAC → SPL Phonitor One headphone amp → Sennheiser HD600’s

Music listening on my headfi gear is exclusively classical, mostly symphonies - Mahler, Sibelius - I like big dramatic music!

Opinions seem to vary as to where the best use of resources should be put, either streamer, DAC or Amp?

I have played with straight out of the Pi USB compared to the Allo DigiOne HAT and to be completely honest if there is a difference its tiny. I tend to think the Allo DigiOne copes better when other issues might ‘harden’ the sound - maybe mains noise or whatever - let’s say it is more consistently enjoyable than the USB out. I have a Lumin U1 Mini in the main speaker system and I am pretty much sure that was a massive overkill - but it looks great, is similar £££ to the DAC and Amp so I’m not even trying the Pi4 back in that chain!!

As far as the amplification goes, I must say I do love the SPL gear. I ended up with the Phonitor One after the review of the ‘D’ version on the Headphone Show and auditioning the Rupert Neve (it was absolutely awful in my system the HD600’s sounded brash and unlistenable). The rest of the SPL range is too big a leap right now, but I have my eye in the big one with meters!

The Soncoz DAC has good reviews and seems pretty clean and crisp, lots of detail, although somewhere along the way I’m getting some occasional glare in the treble area, which I am particularly sensitive to when at volume. If we are nit picking also the amp is way too powerful for my Senns, I have to drop -10dB in Roon headroom to get the volume knob to 9 o’clock. They have since added a -10dB switch on the rear to newer models, but too be honest I would need -20dB plus to get me to the 12 o’clock recommended position! Maybe a harder to drive more esoteric type of headphone could give me an upgrade in detail and be a little bit more exciting than the Senns, and solve that issue as well?

I haven’t until now considered changing the headphones as the HD 600’s are continually advised for classical music listening, which totally confuses me - as why then would you pay thousands for all those amazing headphones out there? Advice from you guys would be great about that!

So there you are… many thanks in advance for all options, all gratefully received! Bear in mind I am a Brit in the UK, so Schiit is a no go, it’s too expensive to import and the European distributor is always out of stock.

Anyway I’m waffling and limiting the input, just bring me up a notch or two in this terrifically fun hobby and like I say all opinions welcome!

Edit: The Soncoz/SPL link is fully balanced and this does make quite a noticeable difference, so any new DAC or amp would need to take this into consideration…

Oh and I’m tubes and R2R DAC in the main system, which needs 20mins at least to come on song so I usually leave the DAC on, whereas my headfi gear is trundled from room to room and plugged in as needed and can’t be left on 24/7 - that may not be an issue?

[pennstac]

Interesting case. I think you need to consider the headphone. I do listen to a lot of classical also. Although I don’t have the 600, I have both a 580 and 6xx. The 580 … well I just did a retrospective review of it after 20+ years of use. There are limitations. The 600 is supposed to be the best of the lot for classical, but it is not a be all and end all. I have 3 headphones that I consider better for classical than either of my Senns.

1. Grado RS1e with Beautiful Sound Pads - in your price range, wider soundstage than the Sennheiser. Clearer, but not overstated treble with these pads.

2. Nectarsound Hive - this is a boutique e-stat. In your price range, but adding an estat capable amp puts them out of it.

3. Rosson Audio Design RAD-0. Exquisitely balanced sound in a planar-magnetic. Can be found as a factory second for about $1700 or so, List $2600.

I also have an older HiFiman HE-560 that would probably be better, but HiFiman has some quality issues, and I have not listened to the present lineup. Someone else should speak up.

I’m aware that my first recommendation may be a bit polarizing, but of all Grados I have tried these are the most balanced sound, particularly with the pad roll, which improves both comfort and bass extension, as well as smoothing treble. @Lothar_Wolf may have commentary. There are Grado haters that do not listen to classical, and who have only listened to models with Grado’s treble heavy house sound, unmodified.

[04gto]

Headphone choices aside, I agree with @pennstac. I would focus on the headphones. I have not owned the HD600, but I have owned the very similar (not discernable by some) HD6XX & HD58X. They are really great headphones and great all-arounders, but they do have there limitations. I am of the opinion that you should always get the best headphones you can get your hands on as long as your source gear are at least ‘good enough’ and yours are far beyond ‘good enough’.

I recommend the following for your budget (some of these may not work on the current exchange rates):

1. Hifiman Arya (Any version- open box sale) or Hifiman Edition XS (new). Both are neutral to clinical sounding, which would go well with your somewhat warmer sounding Phonitor.
2. Focal Clear Original Version. These can be found new within your budget. This is an amazing headphone that will not disappoint.
3. Audeze LCD-2 Classic. If you like the general frequency response of your HD600, but want to take everything up a notch, these will do the trick.

Good luck

[hk57]

I will quickly repeat 2 points made earlier to add my vote: (1) focus on the headphone - spend your money on the interface to your head :), and (2) I think the Arya and Clear are both very good choices (when I upgraded from my HD6xx - or rather added to my collection - the first thing I tried was a planar headphone, which do have complementary charms).

However having been through a bit of this journey myself, the older and wiser me would now suggest that you hold on to your money and wait until you get another 700 pounds or so to invest and skip ahead a few tiers! (Still buying a headphone rather than gear.)

[pennstac]

@hk57

the older and wiser me would now suggest that you hold on to your money and wait until you get another 700 pounds or so to invest

Properly said. I had been considering the Arya when I lost all willpower and sprung for the Rosson RAD-0 instead. I’ve never heard the Clear - or any Focal headphone so didn’t speak to that. I most certainly don’t regret going for the Rosson. (for @timiambeing, Alex Rosson co-founded Audeze and then decided he wanted to produce a more personalized headphone - there are some similarities between higher-end Audeze and the Rosson) @04gto, thank you for your forbearance on my headphone choices. All I’ll say is that my experience with the LCD-2 closed back was awful. The only thing listenable on it was Tublular Bells. The classic may be an entirely different kettle of fish.

And I’m still waiting for @Lothar_Wolf to jump in and confirm my first (and in-budget) choice.

[frkasper]

@timiambeing

HI - I currently have a budget to lower mid-range set-up and find myself with around £600-800 to splash out on an incremental upgrade to hopefully up the SQ a notch or two. My current set-up is:

Raspberry Pi 4/Allo DigiOne HAT running coax spdif → Soncoz la-qxd1 DAC → SPL Phonitor One headphone amp → Sennheiser HD600’s

Music listening on my headfi gear is exclusively classical, mostly symphonies - Mahler, Sibelius - I like big dramatic music!

@timiambeing

Opinions seem to vary as to where the best use of resources should be put, either streamer, DAC or Amp?

The is in the details. If you’re open to a new can instead – while keeping your current gear – my advice would be: be patient, save some more and get a HD800S. Period.

You may even get a second hand within your budget though.

BTW, please share us your favorite albums/tracks in this thread as well:

Classical Music Discussion

This is the thread to discuss Classical music, whether it be artists, songs, acoustic properties of a song, or even which headphone you find fits the genre Just remember keep it within the realm of Classical! By popular request, here’s a direct link to a popular post within this thread: @FLTWS Music Notes to MAHLER 7th SURVEY: Classical Music Discussion - #464 by FLTWS

Cheers.

[hk57]

Now you have made me curious about the Rosson :).

[robson]

Check out the Rosson thread, many happy owners with me amongst them.

They sound great, and are beautiful. If you go that route I highly recommend the suspension strap accessory that the forum member @rustyrat makes for it. The comfort level is definitely improved.

[timiambeing]

I want to thank all those who took the time to give me some great advice! It seems that the headphones are the favourites for upgrade for sure then, and I’m currently looking at the HiFiMan XS - but I now have a list to compare! Some great input… really, many thanks

PS: I’m hoping I get updates to this thread now (none arrived so I came back and had to hunt for my post!). I’m familiar with the software used as I’m on the Roon forum, but I must say moving my post to a thread with nearly 5000 entries and no way of knowing who’s answering who threw me a little!

[pennstac]

My wife could use that suspension comfort - she thinks the Rosson is like wearing rocks. I find the comfort OK, I must one of the few head shapes that find them OK.

[pennstac]

Use the BOOKMARK feature. If you see three dots before the reply button, invoke them.

[SebastienChiu]

Highly recommend the Rosson, especially for classical. At the $1800 that many used units pop up at, it’s a steal.

[Dragonborn]

K712 , Hifiman HE-560 v4 , Beyerdynamic Amrion Home . I can get all three new/used around the same price right now (approx $200) . Already have the K7XX . Listen to mostly metal . Would run all but the HE-560 through either my SP200 or my Darkvoice , with my Atom Dac+ , or my pc sound card (Asus Strix Soar with an ESS 9006A) . Interested in al three , just not sure what would be a better option .

[hottyson]

Hi Dragonborn,
Of your three headphones in question, I own two. I have the HiFiMan HE-560 V4, and AKG K712. I own both of your amplifiers, the S.M.S.L. SP200 and the DarkVoice 336SE.
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Side by side comparison of these two headphones playing metal, I prefered the HiFiMan HE-560 V4 powered by the SP200 using equalization on both headphones. The HE-560 displayed typical detailed articulation of HiFiMan planar magnetic headphones that made my listening experience much more enjoyable. Perhaps one should coin this HiFiMan phenomenon as Hi Fidelity, hence the HiFi in the HiFiMan name.
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However, if you intend to not equalize your headphones, I should inform you that I enjoyed the AKG K712 over the HiFiMan HE-560 V4. Without equalization the HiFiMan HE-560 V4 became shouty and upper mids were crushed. The AKG K712 on the other hand is an old school headphone. Not many audio enthusiast equalized headphones back when the K712 was introduced to the scene. So, the K712 had to be designed with tuning for a system that did not equalize. And, of course the K712 was one of the successful models of the day that still remains in production today. The tube experience was fun switching between tubes mainly to alter the flavor of the highs which can be tuned based on my mood in response to the high energy of metal.

[Dragonborn]

@hottyson

Sweet looking setup ! If I may ask, what tubes you curtently running on your Darkvoice ? Mine currently has a Svetlana “winged c” in the back, & a Sylvania “coin base” up front .

I plan to eq any of the three that I happen to get . I have found one quirk in my dac though . A couole of the games I play, only produce sound from one side when I use my dac, as supposed to my sound card’s dac . Likely the software the game developer used , but still…

I had read previously in some forums, that the he-560 v4, wasnt much , if any, of an upgrade from the he-4xx , which I have (thanks for the background of the himan name origins) . Same coukd be said about the K712 from the K7XX . The enigma , I suppose, is the Amiron Home . I have some DT990 600’s, so I’m not too thrilled with another possible repeat of that .

I can say my 4XX sounded great with metal (Megadeth , Nevermore , Powerwolf ,Orden Ogan, etc) . So did my 6XX, but that felt a little too close , if that makes sense .

[hottyson]

Right now a Svetlana 6N5S/6H13C power tube in each Darkvoice. The driver tubes are Sylvania 6SN7 GT, and CBS Hytron 6SN7GT. They are physically/sonically similar. However, I have tons of tubes that I did not roll for this brief comparison. I still prefer the HE-560 V4 equalized over this tube setup and you stated that you shall equalize your setup.
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I love the HiFiMan planar sound just like you do. However, if you are concerned with a side grade, why not just go straight to the headphone value undisputed heavyweight king (which is also a HiFiMan planar) the renowned HE6se V2? It is in my top three headphones under $1,200 and can be purchased at around $500 when on sale. Crazy value!!! While your S.M.S.L. SP200 will narrow the soundstage of the HE6se V2 compared to high end amps, it sounds pretty darn good on the SP200 and superior to my ears compared to anything you have listed in your posts here.

[orrman]

Hey all!
I haven’t used IEMs in forever, looking to get a pair for commuting. Was thinking of the following four options - Mest MK2, Monarch MK2, U6T, U12T.
I mostly listen to my Susvara these days, with the 1266 TC there for electronic music and when I need a bit more grit. Would love to have something similar to the Sus I guess but can be convinced otherwise.
No DAP yet but that might come as well.

Any thoughts from people with experience with a few of the above? Comparisons or things to be aware of?

Thanks!

[Dragonborn]

If only I had the money . Have a family, 2 new. (5 month old) twin grand daughters . If the 560’s sound better than the 4xx , I’d be happy . I have the same Svetlana tubes alao on my Dsrkvoice . If I were to ever spring for an exoensive set of planars, I’d buy a different amp, such as, a Topping A30 pro .

[orrman]

Thanks for the suggestion but I’m trying to stay under $1200 although might stretch it for the U12T if worth it

[hottyson]

Dude, I’d stick with your SMSL SP200 and suggest that you don’t buy Topping garbage. I don’t want to further elaborate on that with cringy petty words. Just search up my old posts and do some research. Good luck on your purchases and enjoy those grand daughters.