Hifiman Sundara Open-Back Planar Magnetic Headphones - Official Thread

If this is the case, it could be from pads wearing in. Pads in general are imperfect, and can lead to some perceived channel imbalance. Ideally the drivers are closely matched - they shouldn’t really change over time. In theory ‘burn-in’ may be a thing (in some cases) within the first few minutes (at least according to the objective orthodoxy), but it doesn’t change much beyond that. Pad wear will have a bigger influence, the effects of which are often attributed to burn-in, when that’s not actually what’s going on.

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Exactly. It was the first thing I though about when I read the statement in the manual. In the same manual while a burn-in period is recommended it is also recommended non to use burn-in kind of recordings as pink noises and other specific sound often used for. This lead me to the conclusion that the only real burn-in process was related to the headphones pads.

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Those aren’t Oratory’s measurements - he just digitized your measurements so he could make an EQ profile from them :wink: So I wouldn’t say this is put to rest yet, as we still have no other measurements apart from yours showing this improved frequency response.

Wait, he used mine? I thought he did one on the new pads. If that’s the case I’ll try to get another one in, but you can even see the pad differences in max_settings video.

Yeah if you compare the graphs closely you’ll see they’re exactly the same measurements. Ah I forgot about Max Settings’ video and his measurements comparing an older and newer Sundara, which do seem to agree with yours, although it would be good to see confirmation with another unit using a proper GRAS set-up by e.g. Oratory rather than the less accurate and reliable miniDSP EARS rig Max Settings’ measurements were using.

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Totally. I’ll ask the boys about bringing one up still.

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I got the Schiit Hel for Christmas, currently powering SHP 9500’s and KPH30i’s. My Sundara’s are coming in on Thursday. I hope I’m impressed! :slight_smile:

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I’m impressed! Clamp force is a but much, the cable is awful, and the earcups are a little small, but everything else about these is amazing. They sound so good.

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@DivineCurrent Any changes to your EQ? I’m also trying to get it to have similar sound signature to a HD600.

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Yes actually! I have since purchased an HE-500 to replace the Sundara in most cases, but I still have the Sundara around. This Sundara EQ profile is actually a little warmer than the HD600 with a nice amount of treble air, it’s closer to the Audio Technica R70x which I actually like better than the HD600 right now. Here it is for EQ APO:

Preamp: -4.5 dB
Filter: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 0.8
Filter: ON PK Fc 3500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 2
Filter: ON PK Fc 4300 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 5500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 6000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 7000 Hz Gain -2.5 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3 dB Q 3.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 13000 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5

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Thanks, these sound pretty great. Really took out what I felt was a bit too sibilant on the Sundaras.

How is the comfort of the Sundara with glasses?

Just updating this with some more measurements of a brand new unit brought up from the warehouse.

This is basically the same as the other one I have here. I’ll still do some pad swapping, I know @bobbooo asked for that, but at this point I see no reason to expect an FR that’s any different from this with brand new units.

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Great, I think that’s…Resolved this now. Ahem. Which pads were you going to swap though?

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I have someone sending me the old pads (I think?). So I’ll swap those pads onto this unit and see if it makes a difference. If there’s no difference, then that means it’s not just the pads that were changed. If there is a difference (what I suspect) then it’s likely due to the pad changes.

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Great, that’s what I was hoping you’d try. Looking forward to those results! If confirmed that you can turn a new into an old Sundara (and vice versa) just with a pad swap, that would go a long way to clearly demonstrate to people what a huge part pads play in a headphone’s sound (in fact Oratory has said pads are as important as the driver in terms of their influence on the sound of a headphone).

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I have been using my Sundara quite frequently with two different pairs of glasses and haven’t had any problems at all…

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HifiMan Sundara Review — The Easiest Headphone Recommendation in 2021

An audio engineer’s perspective on an audiophile headphone

Full review on Medium


pictured: Crumbs, Hifiman Sundara, Muji

Hifiman Sundara

Intro

There are two typical driver technologies found in modern headphones. There’s the more traditional ‘dynamic’ driver and then there’s the relatively obscure ‘planar magnetic’ driver.

Dynamic drivers are what you’ll find in most speakers and headphones usually involving a speaker ‘cone’ in front of a ‘voicecoil’ that vibrates forwards and backwards based on an electrical charge supplied by a magnet behind the voicecoil. Or something like that :joy_cat:

The Hifiman Sundara sports the more ~alternative~ ‘planar magnetic’ driver technology. Instead of a cone and voicecoil, planar magnetic drivers involve a flat planar diaphragm which reacts to magnets on either side of said diaphragm.

At some point during the 2020 pandemic lockdown, with a lot of help from the subreddit r/headphones, I convinced myself that I needed to hear some planar dynamic drivers for myself. I was especially interested in hearing “ that planar bass .” After much research (reading heated arguments on Reddit and other headphone forums) I decided on the Hifiman Sundara because of its cost and relatively neutral tonality.

Build, Design, and Comfort

Grade: A-

Hifiman gets a lot of flack on Reddit for their shotty quality control and pitiful customer service. My Sundara arrived with no apparent defects and has remained virtually and sonically brand new since it arrived eight months ago.

The Hifiman Sundara has a very industrial look and feel to it. Not that I’d try it out myself, but they look and feel like headphones that would survive an otherwise devastating fall. Despite being mostly metal, they feel relatively light-weight on my head at 372 grams. For reference, that’s right between the Sennheiser HD 560S that I reviewed (240 grams) and the Focal Clear that I reviewed (450 grams).

The Sundara is pretty comfortable. The pads feel luxuriously soft and the clamp strength feels just right for the headphones to stay in place without squeezing my big head. Compared to the Sennheiser 560S and the Focal Clear, the Sundara feels more like a closed-back headphone. I don’t know if it’s the physics of the driver or the material of the ear pads (or some combination) but there’s definitely less air flowing to my ears. Consequentially, it does get a little hot/cramped after long sessions unlike the Focal Clear which I can wear all day long.

Note: These are open-back headphones. This means there is no isolation between you and your surroundings. These are useful for listening critically at home in a quiet room. They would be totally inappropriate for use in public spaces because 1. everyone would be able to hear what you’re listening to and 2. the noise of your surroundings would make it difficult for you to hear what you’re listening to.

Reference Tracks | Jake Cheriff


pictured: my reference tracks for evaluating speakers, headphones, and room acoustics*

Frequency Response / Sound

Grade : A

I think the best word to describe the way the Sundara sounds would be “Crisp.” It’s hard to say whether that ‘crispness’ is a symptom of the Sundara’s frequency response or character trait of it’s planar magnetic driver. Having listened to some of Hifiman’s other planar magnetic offerings, I would speculate that it’s a little of both.


Measurements above are conducted by Crinacle and can be found via their amazing and generous free headphone comparison tool.

Bass

The bass is really special. Looking at the graph above, it looks like the Sundara ought to have significantly less sub bass than the Focal Clear. But subjectively, this is not the case. The Sundara sounds like it extends far deeper than the Clear - almost as deep as the HD 560S. There is a weight to the Sundara’s sub bass that’s a lot of fun and very enveloping compared to dynamic driver headphones that I’ve listened to.

In terms of dynamics, the Sundara is just about on par in the low frequencies with the Focal Clear. They both have a very satisfying, very speaker-like ‘punch’ to the low end.

Bass texture is where the Clear and Sundara depart substantially. The Sundara’s bass texture is very rich. It’s much easier, with the Sundara, to differentiate between sonic elements in the low end happening simultaneously — like the sound of of a kick drum beater, a kick drum’s resonance, and the attack of a bass guitar string.

Listening to “Right Side of My Neck” by Faye Webster, the bass guitar and kick drum are both massive, deep, and heavy without getting in each other’s way.

Listening to “Come Home” by Fell Runner, it’s a similar phenomenon. It sounds like the Sundara is really nailing the kick drum sustain (and decay) in a way that typical speakers just can’t even touch. Even in my treated studio via studio monitors, the low end sounds dull in comparison to the textured bass on the Sundara. I believe this is what my fellow nerds on r/headphones refer to as “ that planar bass .”


pictured: Hifiman Sundara, Avantree Universal Headphone Stand

Soundstage / Imaging

Grade: A

The Sundara’s soundstage, more than any other characteristic, is what sets the Sundara apart from any other headphone I’ve reviewed so far. While I was in college, I worked as a sales rep at a headphone / lifestyle shop in the East Village called AC Gears. Sadly, AC Gears closed down a couple years ago. People would travel from all over the state (and farther) just to come demo our Hifiman offerings. The first time I tried on a pair of Hifimans at the shop. I remember thinking that I was hearing, for the first time, an entirely new dimension to songs that I had been listening to for years. The Sundara didn’t exist yet so it must have been a pair in their he-series. But the Sundara’s soundstage feels like a reentrance to that dimension that I haven’t experienced since. The sound is wider and taller than ‘normal’ headphones and subsequently more engaging. If the Focal Clear puts you in the first row of the concert, the Sundara puts you on stage in the band.

Imaging is also superb. I’m not a big gamer but my friend BD swears that the Sundara helps him to “find the loot boxes in Warzone more easily.”


pictured: Muji, Hifiman Sundara, Avantree Universal Headphone Stand

Value / Conclusion

Grade: A+

At the time of their original release in 2018, the Hifiman Sundara was listed everywhere at $500. Even at their original price, I think the Sundara would be an incredible value. At their current price, the Sundara is the easiest open-back headphone to recommend. Full stop. Between their solid build, agreeable tonality, and superior soundstage, Hifiman is raising the bar for sonic satisfaction while putting similarly priced options to shame… Full article on Medium

Thanks for reading.

-J
:camera: @jakecheriff
:globe_with_meridians: jakecheriff.com

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Thank you for posting such an informative review.Good timing-I receive mine in the mail tomorrow.

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Another outstanding review, @reallyoldcob .

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