Maxims for Understanding and Describing Sound

As someone that does human subject testing for a living using lots of biometrics including brain imaging, I can tell you EVERYTHING is a factor in how we perceive music. Here’s a small set of examples that can absolutely affect HOW you hear: how many hours of sleep you got, how stressed you are, how much caffeine you had, how warm/cool your lighting is, how comfortable your chair is, how much background noise there is, how loud music was the last time you had headphone on, how the volume knob feels as your turn it, when you ate last, how thirsty you are, etc.

Basically, I do research studies that involve collecting all types of biometric data like heart rate, skin conductance, cortisol samples, eye tracking, accelerometers, etc. Your body is extremely complex and running through many biological cycles all the time as well as putting you in different cognitive states that absolutely affect how sensitive you are to external stimuli including music and we can measure these subtle, but significant changes and know that there are a ton of factors that influence and “nudge” you in your perceptions. Psychology is a critical part about this hobby and people really don’t factor in how much the individual human factor contribution is to this. Look at the whole “Yanny vs Laurel” debate. While we always see visual illusions posted all over the internet, very rarely do we get a chance to encounter the auditory counterpart of that. What a great example of showing us first hand just how different we can each hear and interpret the same sound clip.

What I think is most important is just accepting that we all hear with wildly different ears and sometimes we will hear things in a certain way (e.g. “Yanny”), and another person might hear something completely different (e.g. "Laurel), yet there is no absolute right or wrong. I think what experience comes down to in this hobby is just learning how to trust your own ears and figuring out what things make you happy.

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This is one of the better post I’ve read in awhile on why we all hear differently :ok_hand:

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This actually makes things easier when it comes to finding the right setup for yourself. If we can let go of the notion of “objectively the best”, we can focus more on what works best for us within the constraints that we have.

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Very true. Could you help distill this into some maxims for those factors that are best understood and over which we have some control? Some examples that come to mind:

  1. You Hear Better in the Morning
  2. Wax Buildup Can Dull Your Hearing
  3. Hydrate Before a Critical Listening Session

The tough part about all this is that there is no objective way to measure what “biological settings” will be optimal for your own music enjoyment listening. For instance, it could be that one person has a hard time focusing on music when stressed out and their mind can’t relax enough to enjoy the music. But to someone else, they could be using music as a way to de-stress such that they get maximum pleasure from music when stress levels are high, but they might have a hard time (e.g. get bored) listening to music if they are in a happy, energetic mood. For this person, it seems counter-intuitive but higher stress levels leads to better music enjoyment. So even if there are conditions or factors that you can control that will make your biology more primed for perceiving the subtleties of music, that won’t correlate directly with what your own subjective experience in your perceptions are.

The reason I am interested in all these types of environmental, biological, and situational variables is because for human subject testing the more data we can log on each person and the more we can keep track of all the variables at play, the better we can use stats to account for those things and parse out their influence in the goal we are most interested in. These are called covariates in statistics. Conversely, my main work is implementing artificial intelligence and machine learning on these biological signals, particularly brain signals, to interface them with machines, devices, and computers. So like controlling a robot with your brain. Because all of those types of variables I mentioned will affect how well I can read and interpret brain signals, the more I account for those things and build them into the algorithms I use, I can actually leverage all of those seemingly meaningless pieces of information to let my algorithms learn better which combination of factors to use to optimally interpret the brain signals that I am interested in.

All this to say that it goes back to the fact that music listening and enjoyment is a deeply personal experience that we can’t really predict what conditions will be best for all people. Though theoretically if someone came to my lab and I tracked all these biological factors and let a person listen to music and rate their experiences over many sessions in many different environments, I could use stats to figure out which factors and conditions are most correlated with higher subjective rating of musical enjoyment. So it isn’t impossible at the individual level. And essentially, that is what everyone is doing all the time when they are trying to find “what works best” for them, except at home we rely on trial and error to figure it out rather than scientific measurements and stats.

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Looks like I was slow to come to this party. Volume Matters. Back in the day, when I haunted Hi-Fi shops, it was difficult to match volume levels of speakers. It was also known - and used by less than honest salespeople, that in an AB comparison, most people will choose the slightly louder speaker as sounding better.

The standard advice to avoid this trap applies equally to headphones. DO NOT do AB style comparisons. Listen to each source separately for a reasonable amount of time, and vary the volume level occasionally while listening.

Try to keep the same source material and setup and change out only the component you are evaluating. This way you will be able to note the differences between the headphones and eventually decide which one you like. With headphones, it’s even more critical, as comfort is as important as sound.

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Great point. I have been saying for years and to add to the mix all that has been said here, all the things we don’t know about unknown aspects of the science and physics of sounds and music.

Maybe, as an experiment some listeners could start, is a listening session diary, with dates, moods, etc. and listen to the same track at the beginning of the listening session for that day.

Just a thought.

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I completely agree, but I don’t think we need to set the bar that high. To take the example of equal loudness contours… The insight that relative frequency perception changes at different listening levels says nothing about what listen level any specific person is going to prefer with any specific headphone, but simply learning that there’s something here gives folks like @Xgatt something new to play with as they seek out their own bliss.

Another good example would be earwax. Every now and then, I hear someone testify that their listening enjoyment increases dramatically after having their ears cleaned. I’d wager you a good beer that it’s never there are a substantial number of headphone listeners to whom it’s never even occurred to try having their ears checked for wax and possibly cleaned. Folks have actually studied the effect of earwax build-up on hearing and, beyond just showing that earwax has an effect on hearing, its effect is both frequency-selective and varies depending on a genetic factor that determines the type of earwax one produces. Even more interestingly, use of IEMs can impact earwax, exacerbating the problem.

The sane part of me finds it laughable to even consider such things, but the part of me that spends thousands of dollars on headphone equipment thinks it’s kinda cool :crazy_face:

Neat idea. I think whatever personality trait interferes with my ability to keep a food diary would interfere with this as well, but I know some people for whom this would be awesome. I wonder if we could accommodate that on the forum somehow (like personal listening diary threads or something)? Could be a fun way to share experiences without the stress of writing a full on review.

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Good point about taking time. I’ve added this as a maxim to the main post!

Thank you. Taking time would be a good topic in and of itself when considering hearing - not to mention listening, which is rather different :wink:

I notice that with good quality sound, after a few minutes of listening, I pick up more detail. While I suspect this is a psycho-acoustic effect, I’m not entirely sure. With poorer quality sound, including lossy sound, after a while I experience ear fatigue. I do think that is a physiological response and might be or might have been measured.

When I say I pick up more detail, if I’m listening to good, well recorded music, I tend to find a space about 10 minutes into what I started as critical listening, where I just get lost in the MUSIC!!! Then eventually I refocus on the sound, typically more relaxed, and possibly more acutely aware of detail and nuance.

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Oh, I agree.

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That’s an interesting thought. I’ve found that it takes a short while to warm up the ears and mind into listening mode. If I start the playlist with one of the most enjoyable songs (whether for critical or pleasure), I find that I’m not really ready to get the most out of it.

I find it best to start with a few easy listening songs, settle in, and then move on to the meaty stuff.

I really believe that most of the members are more interested in complicated explanations of headphone audio than any type of music itself. This is not my. cup of Mozart. I realize that this is the purpose of this group and perhaps I should be in a music discussion group instead but some of the members sure do take every possible aspect of headphones deadly seriously. Maybe it’s me who is too seriously involved with classical music and headphones and even speakers.

Thanks for your comments here
Its good to see this. I feel is one of the more important topics that people maybe don’t always fully appreciate in relation to listening to audio
Unfortunately my optimum time for listening to audio is around 2 am ):
:smiley:

If it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of what I do with headphones is just listen to music. At this very moment, I’m listening to GoGo Penguin, which I recently discovered thanks to a post on r/headphones.

This is a response I posted on reddit to a review of the Focal Elex, I had a lot of fun going through each song (granted I was a couple drams deep by the point of the review of the songs with the Elex), it was a very fun exercise and I would love to do it again, maybe we could do a “book club” style playlist with different headphones? What do you think @andrew, @taronlissimore?

"I just got mine, and the detail is really good, such a crazy sound. I’m really liking them, mine are #0031 so that is super cool. Man listening to random music right now and they are just an intense listen…snapping fingers are crisp and the little details that separate out are crazy, and I have the HD800/HD700 these can’t compete on soundstage but musically they are a nice sidegrade. I’m going to go through each of your songs you posted to compare, that should be fun, maybe have a dram or two of whiskey while I listen.

Here is my take on your songs you posted, I listened with the Elex, through the JDS labs Element powering while the El DAC does the dirty work of changing the 010101010110001001 (don’t quote that it is random). Without further ado:

Kashiwa Daisuke - April.#02: I thought my headphones or PC broke… what did I just listen to??? Da FuQ, my brain hurts now…I don’t think I could do that song again lol

Frank Sinatra - Fly Me To The Moon [Remastered 2008]: Ahhh now this is nice, it goes well with my Irish whiskey I’m drinking (cheap Sexton but nice flavors for the price, plus the bottle is sexy as hell) Frank put my brain back together… =) The Elex is nice with this song Frank def is up front and able to shine!

Tom Odell - Another Love (Zwette Edit): That intro bass with piano (?) is nice, to me it felt like it was cascading across the front of my brain (the piano) and the bass was thumping all around me, voice was very intimate feeling (close to my ear).

Pink Floyd - Interstellar Overdrive: the scratchy intro is just detailed, and the rest just comes in and is…well honestly I was waiting for a jump scare :wink: lol Psychedelic isn’t my thing though…onto the next song.

Caravan Palace - Rock It For Me: oooh, I like this, man the left and right at :46sec was a trip, I’m a fan of this song, if you like it check out this: https://open.spotify.com/track/717lZxxn53x2B0eucGiD1Z?si=M_W-fEaYSqGSHc5DxJHdog deadmau5 - The Veldt [8 Minute Edit]: Bass heavy, but is a nice track, Elex performs nicely but I prefer my Fostex X00 for this song. Vocals really shine though, and everything is crisp and intimate.

Blue Scholars - Anna Karina: oh man that intro is just precise, and the stick strikes are so detailed, it almost sounds like a 5gallon bucket that they are striking… I feel like I can hear how he is warping his mouth to rap, if that makes sense…odd hearing that.

Pink Floyd - Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun: That xylophone is cool sounding(i think that is what I’m hearing). The rest isn’t my thing though, cool track though, except for the high whine around 2:30 onwards that doesn’t sound good at all on the elex.

Cynthia Harrell - Snake Eater (Album Ver.): I’m not a fan of tracks that put fake Vinyl sounds, but the percussion, sounds very precise and detailed.

The Zurich Boys’ Choir - Schubert: Ave Maria: Mmmm, that is just relaxing, and the present(not sure what I was trying to say here…). The Elex is really shining for me on this track, the fingers on the harp…yeah this is nice. Time to refill the tumbler (Redbreast neat is up next, or maybe Balvenie Caribbean Cask)

Radiohead - Daydreaming: (went with Balvenie Doublewood instead) this one felt like faerys were flying around my head for the first part of the track. very soothing song, reminded me of a less intense Saeglopur song: https://open.spotify.com/track/01GwbORTprr9TyO9dxE41O?si=qXQajR2sSImFbfJGQq4a2Q Polish National Radio Symphony Orchestra: couldn’t find the song so listened to a couple other tracks from this Orchestra…Classical sounds splendid on the Elex nothing else needs to be said here move along :wink:

Secret Garden - Song From A Secret Garden : emotional response inducing, I don’t listen enough to Orchestra or classical tracks, I should they are a ride and an experience that should be taken, more often by everyone.

The Beatles - A Day In The Life: …I got sidetracked listening to this…one sec, it is a trip having voice only in one ear and music in the other. Don’t think I could listen to many more times, cool but not for me. The Elex picks up the strumming very nicely though.

AC/DC - Back In Black: Tolling and cymbals with the guitars wow, that just sounds really good on the Elex the only thing is the cymbals sound kind of far away. The guitar is center stage to everything else. Everything else feels like background to the guitar. Oops accidently listened to Hells bells first ( I blame the booze :wink: on track now… the guitar still takes center stage. I recommend listening to both tracks now =)

Michael Jackson - Billie Jean: ooH this sound excellent, the shakers and vocals, mmmm… yeah this track lets the Elex excel! This track really puts a shine to the neutral character of the Elex

Adele - Lovesong: Guitar strumming with Adele vocals…plus good whiskey, and you are in for a treat. nice intimate music listening. I could listen to this for a long time. It was like slow dancing with someone and being pressed tightly together, and not wanting to let go.

Hans Zimmer - No Time for Caution: This is amazing, Hans just creates such iconic tracks, you can get lost in them. I would say the Elex wasn’t so great here on lower listening volumes, but once I turned it up it really shined, and I also got the THX/IMAX immersion. The Elex really sounds good, and picks up a lot of the details and doesn’t let the bass take over. I recommend checking out this Hans Zimmer track as a complement: https://open.spotify.com/track/0UWa0AdUscdQUI7mjjx6G1?si=N1wYAF-USEeI1JabPOdxYA Johann Pachelbel - Pachelbel: Canon and Gigue in D Major for 3 Violins and Continuo, P. 37: 1. Canon (Orchestral Version) | : I can conclude that the Elex really shines with Orchestral performances, it separates but puts everyone right next to you while they play, great listening to Orchestra with these. I’ll have to start listening to more now, and maybe do A/B with the HD800 and the Elex.

Yosi Horikawa - Bubbles: The detail is there but it feels/sounds like a tiny stage in between my ears, It really sounds like the detail of the HD800 but brought way in close. I don’t get the reach out and grab the ping pong ball feeling I get with the HD800/700. Still sounds great though. Especially the rain stick sound.

The Elex has a very neutral character, I was expecting bass cannons from all the reviews of the Elear. I would say these are a sidegrade to the HD800, the Elex is more musical, and more intimate. The soundstage is pressed up against you in a good way. I will say though that I found myself turning the volume higher than I like with the Elex, to really let it shine, I never got higher than peaks in the high 80DBs but it did feel held back at lower listening levels."

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The comparisons and more relatable (to me) descriptions of what you’re hearing is what I’d love to see more of. Some reviews I’ve read makes it seem like the reviewer has some form of Synesthesia and not know it. Still might be an interesting read, I just don’t get what they’re trying to describe.

Completwlt agree