"Musical" vs. "Analytical/Sterile/Clinical" - Meaning of Terms?

Measurements are good to have, but I agree that in the end it’s your ears that should ultimately be used to make your decisions on where to spend your money.

It’s all about enjoyment and everyone’s experience is a little different.

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I did this, for a full decade.

A slew of Astons in favor of Porsche (I’d owned 911s already), Ferrari (a nice F355 F1 for a couple of years and later chosen over an F430), and over the R8 (original), and various others.

The others were faster, or more reliable, or better built (or even all three).

The Astons were pure theatre. EVERY time I even sat in the things.

When you fire them up, the displaying the dash says “Power, Beauty, Soul” … definitely how I found them.

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Get your ears in some ZMF Aeolus/Verites/or any of them really…and either a Bottlehead Crack or any nice Tube OTL or well implemented tube amp…then…let us know your thoughts on “neutral” “analytical” etc.

=)

You may hate it…but, more likely, you will be far more engaged than if you were listening through an Atom or, THX, or even the Phonitor X

Well measured gear is great, and that is what I generally sought when I first started this Alice in Wonderland journey…now I have an amp DAC chain for “analytical” (RME ADI-2 DAC to Phonitor XE) and currently 3 different tube amps, Bottlehead Crack+speedball, Eddie Current ZDT jr, and Cayin Ha-1a mkii…while eyeballing the ZMF Pendant or Glenn OTL

Also recently, due to ease of use, I’ve been rocking the Schiit Hel with either my LCD-GX or ZMF Aeolus/Verite C

Variety is the spice of life after all, and we won’t know what we like until we try it…we might be able to help hone in on certain things through trusted advice, but even then you might be missing out on something by not hearing/tasting/experiencing something on your own.

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Is there any other impression?

I am in agreement if I understand you right. I’ve seen Audio reference’s book. To me it is all Greek. After 55 years of music listening and gear, I still don’t understand it.
I now only use my own language in my impressions. It’s all I can express my experience with the gear.
I have come to the conclusion there is much more in technical expertise on the audio forums.
I also think there are many musicians who understand a common language far better than I do

I do know the only rule I know to be subjective is: " Is to thine own Ears be True "
After all in the end nothing more is more important then that in music appreciation.

" Great Topic "

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Ok I mentioned the word “musical” in a discussion about the Monoprice THX 889 amp that I was reading where someone mentioned the world stale and lifeless or something like that, and I responded with hey I totally disagree and I think this amp is very “musical” etc…

I didnt realize this is a sensitive subject…so…

When I use the term “musical” I mean that when I play a well mastered and recorded musical piece, one that I actually have witnessed in a live performance and then when I hear the same music via my sound system…and it sounds very much like that live "musical " performance then this is what I am trying to convey.

The amp or headphones or some combination lets me re-live as close as possible that live performance in tonality etc…

So when I say this amp is very musical I really mean its allowing this great piece of music to come thru uncolored and very honest and accurate to the oringinal musical performance…

Yeah I know I am not perfect with my words, but this is kind of what I am trying to say…when I hear something is “sterile” i get the feeling that this is a very negative attribute, but with an amp and the desire for me to have that straight wire with gain, no noise and low distortion allows this great recording to flow thru unmodified in any way except an increase in voltage / power to drive a transducer.

I guess calling a device sterile in an amplifier case, this might be accurate, and not bad at all?

Something thats sterile allows the input to pass thru amplified without out any interference of any kind…

So its back to how good is your source material…

With tube amps you hardly ever hear the word sterile, cold, analytical etc…but with SS amps you frequently see these adjectives being used all the time.

Now if just having a good positive listening experience involves a SS or tube amp or other gear thats great and I guess that could be called a great musical experience…

Ok nuff of my diatribe…enjoy the music

Alex

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Absolutely true. Source to me is the most important part of the audio chain. Compression is such a Cardinal Sin to any audiophile. Who does the mastering, on what media is it made, mic placements, recording locations.

I wish more was talked up about music sources. This probably one of the reasons I love Steve Hoffman Forum. The Mother of all Forums. With over 725,000 discussions, 21,700,000 posts and 87,000 members

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Excellently put. Musical is one of the most subjective words used to describe the sound of an audio component, when in reality if it’s at all transmitting a recording of any musical (instruments) performance, then it is always “musical”.

I think the key to what you’ve described is the “lively” element. The reproduction of the performance with its sonic nuances. For me, that’s musical.

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Some concerts are disasters!! LOL…others are really nice…

I listened to Larry Carlton years back in a small jazz venue, 30-50 people and it was magnificent…but others like Emerson Lake and Palmer Ha!! Everybody was stoned and the sound quality was terrible…oh! who is ELP…back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth…

:>)

Alex

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:laughing:
But when it’s done “right”, it’s magical.

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Agree. One of the best live recordings I’ve heard is the “Brave Enough” album by Sara Bareilles. You can hear people shuffling around in their seats, some clinking of glasses, and other ambient sounds behind Sara’s soaring vocals. Another great album to test this with is “Jazz at the Pawnshop”.

All of this comes through clear as day in the AAA 789, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Maybe high end tubes and DACs maintain all that while still adding some “pretty” coloration, but I haven’t had the chance to demo them.

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And that’s what it’s about.

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Ah! Small venues. I was so fortunate to go to the majority of concerts in the 60’s. Pick Floyd - Fillmore East in New York. I can’t imagine that was much more than a couple of thousands. Major groups in bars. Santana, Black Sabbath, James Gang and on and on…

There were no massive attendance concerts. It seems like the Beatles 1965 Concert at Shea Stadium. It was all downhill from there.

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That’s awesome. I believe that’s why we dedicate so much time and resources to this ‘hobby’. Recapturing those moments.

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That’s a good use of the word musical, now that you define it as such. That’s the largest single problem across the hobby though, is that these adjectives rarely are used to mean the same thing. I think some people would define musical as the antithesis of clinical.

It’s kind of funny… The FAA defines the term “major repair” as anything that is not a minor repair. Do you know what a minor repair is? Anything that is not a major repair. With such clarity on that matter, it’s a wonder that flying is at all safe.

The term dark I’ve seen used in so many different ways, it’s use is now meaningless to me.

Further, go look at different sites that have bothered to put together a glossary of terms for audio. Sbaf, head-fi, and a few others have them.

Almost none of the site users adheres to them. If they do, none of the glossary definitions are the same from site to site.

So basically, the language is broken.

This has led me to identify a very select few individuals who preferences align with my own, and I pretty much ignore anyone else. It’s not that everyone else’s opinion is invalid or wrong, it’s just that they might as well be speaking Japanese.

This is why I also find it irksome, hilarious, or downright stupid (and in some cases it’s just brainwashed immaturity) when I see so many people read something about a product they own, disagree with what was said, and rush off to defend that great and faultless inanimate object from the horrors of someone who voiced an opinion that indicated it wasn’t better than breathing air. (I’ll commend you though for being quite a good conversationalist in this regard. I praise your inquisitive nature and sensible demeanor! Bravo!)

Especially when they haven’t taken the time to understand the other person’s preferences, dig deeper into their meaning, or make any effort to converse as calm, civil adults.

Doubly especially when they start making irrational demands.

Isn’t that right, @cstalgis

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It’s all subjective. It’s good to find people’s opinions that are shared with yours. And they are only opinions. It’s comical that some believe their opinions to be fact.

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That is how I would interpret sterile…but I personally would use analytical over sterile…but, like, that is, just, like, my opinion, man… :wink:

Thank you for clarification on your definition of “Musical”…

I wouldn’t say it is a “sensitive” subject but more of a “subjective” subject with differing opinions lol…and with knowledge comes power…erghh…more knowledge…waves hand in front of your face “pay no attention to the previous comment…I am in no way building knowledge on all users to eventually take over the world…erghhh…damn it!!.. I foiled myself again!!! NOOOO!” =)

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Musical means “Balanced sound” even with some shortcomings at details, dynamics or headstage.

Stax 009S driven by KGSShv Carbon amp through Dave and HMS sounds very musical at my home with few shortcomings but overall good balance.

On the other hand, I got the feeling that Raal SR1a will sound exciting with fast and open sound but it may fall short of Stax in overall balance or musicality.

I hope to tune Sr1a not to be dry or clinical.

My two channel system of Lansche 4.1 speaker with plasma tweeter driven by LM 508 SET(lot of tube rolling with Nos tubes) is on the revealing side close to 'Analytical".

But after applying “soft” eq preset through Lyngdorf 2170 in the digital chain, it sounds right.

I do not expect any headphone including Abyss give more details than my 2 channel system.

Lansche 4.1 speaker driven by Lyngdorf 2170 amp sounds rather bright and close to dry or sterile.

Lyngdorf 2170 is one step solution including Dac, room correction, Eq, integrated amplifier and active crossover.

I use its function of only room correction, Equalizer and active crossover not power amplifier.

Its Dac is also decent with good value.

On the other hand, Lyngdort 2170 works well with VAUGHN CABERNET SPEAKERS** as a one step solution.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Onix%20XCD-50%20and%20XIA160%20review/XCD-50ReferenceCDPlayerReview.htm

I may try to drive SR1a with its 170 Watts for 4 ohm.

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For me…

Musical: Engaging, I stop looking for details in the track and just sit back and enjoy the performance. When my audio chain does that for me I think of it as “musical”

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That’s pretty much mine as well. When I am totally immersed in the music, and the world falls away.

I called something Antiseptic earlier. I would define that as when everything is clean, sure, but when it also forces sterile detail on you in a jarring or unsmooth manner. Things don’t blend into a natural presentation. A close cousin to analytical. Ok, take it or leave it, I tried.

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I wish it were as easy as that. Given some of the venues with poor acoustics, vagaries of mixing, and your placement in the hall, you may not get what the artist intended. And in a group it’s always possible that different members want different things.

It’s rarely possible, but the most direct transmission of artists intent has been in a home with some wine or beer and good company, including the artist.

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