"Musical" vs. "Analytical/Sterile/Clinical" - Meaning of Terms?

As a reviewer, I honestly have a hard time understanding how things sound based on those terms. To me, and I specifically mean “to me personally, myself and just myself”, those terms are meaningless. I am not attacking anyone using them and I think everyone should be completely free to express themselves however they see fit, but I think those terms are just meaningless and give you absolutely no indication on what to expect in terms of how things sound but in some very broad, general and loosely identifiable way. Again, I would like to stress this is my personal opinion and that’s the reason why I never use them, I do not want anyone to feel attacked by my position.

The way that I see it, this two terms are used by one category of people: those who do not want a faithful reproduction of the sound, but want to enjoy music the way they like. That’s entirely, perfectly fine and that’s a choice as valid as any other. As an audiophile, though, my personal aim is to get as close to the original sound as possible, so what I look for is “clinical” (flat frequency response, no added colouration) instead of “musical” (with added emphasis on some part of the spectrum, which usually means bass and lower midrange). That’s not always the case, though, an as these terms are broad in definition everyone uses them with their very own meaning, making things more difficult to understand as few people explain what meaning they attribute to the terms.

As far as I know, that means nothing and it’s just a way of saying “I like how it sounds”.

Again, as far as I know, these are just very broad terms with little specific information.

So, as others pointed out in this discussion as well, the main issue is that everybody uses words without clarifying what meaning they attribute to them, making it almost impossible to understand what they are talking about in a specific, detailed way. Most of the audiophile discourse I’ve witnessed is based on loose definitions and broad terms because of two facts: the first one is the inherent difficulty for humans to describe sounds. It’s really easy to describe colours and images, but it’s really hard to describe anything else: sounds, smells, physical sensations, tastes. That’s in part due to the poor education we are given in regards to how to describe these things (e.g. a vast majority of us was taught how to draw, use colours, look at paintings etc but very few have had specific education regarding sounds, tastes, smells etc). In part it’s because as humans, our main sensory organs are eyes and we are basically hard-wired to process images much better than anything else.
The second thing is that there is directly correlated to the first, and that’s that there is no formal way to describe sounds as precisely as you can describe images - we just lack the words to do so. You can say “this is red” and it’s unequivocal. You can’t say “this sounds red”. So it’s always a matter of saying “look, I use the word X to describe this, which you can probably hear if you listen to this track using this gear”.
On top of that, and just for the sake of completeness, I find that there are also two other kinds of people: people who have no clue of what they’re talking about and “scammers”. The former is totally fine, as long as they realise they need to learn their stuff (“there is no such a thing as a right to an opinion, there is only a right to an informed opinion”). I mean, everyone neds to start from somewhere, right? Those I addressed as “scammers” may not really be such and this is indeed a misuse of the word (also caused by me not being a native English speaker), but the point I wanted to get across is that there are those who use broad terms so they can trick the uneducated audience into finding things in sound that may or may not be there. It’s a bit like horoscopes: they’re so broad and general that anyone can find something in them.
To wrap things up, I think the discussion would be benefited if we stopped using broad terms altogether or if we provided clear explanations of what the meaning is to us. The alternative is to continue to not understand each other. My two cents, of course!

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Bravo!

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this is a very good way of describing - it´s more work for the reviewer - I strongly appreciate it, if available in a review

for example "the reverbs in this segment on this track at minute 1:42 into the song are well represented or missing with this headphone… using this and that in my sound-chain for listening

for a german native with polish roots and frensh/english over 20 years back at school

I can tell you one funny thing - many german audio reviewers use english words here and there, missing the fitting phrase :slight_smile:

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You’re never going to get to a centrally defined, consistently applied, glossary of terms on a single site, let alone across multiple sites, unless you’re enforcing rules for such.

And that requires a mechanism for such enforcement.

You might get that in a paid, technical writing environment, with formal review cycles and content editors, but otherwise, well, I wouldn’t take bets on it.

Even the “objective” sites don’t use well defined technical terms correctly or consistently 100% of the time. I could cite multiple reviews, from a single party even, that go on about “balanced” designs (as an example) that make bad assumptions/does no verification, and doesn’t necessarily understand what it means in terms of headphones anyway (based on posting history).

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@ProfFalkin, no it isn’t.

I think this is a fantastic way for a reviewer to write. And it’s not really about standardizing anything, either. It’s just the reviewer putting in an extra effort make sure their audience understands them better. Each reviewer can mean different things by the same words, but if they are clear about what those words means to THEM, that makes it much easier to understand.

I also found your whole post exceptionally well thought out and informative. Thanks!

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I heard a lot of music in live settings before I ever got into audio: classical (small & large ensembles); operas; vocal & or instrumental recitals; rock; songbook singers; lots of jazz.

Yet I never experienced these buzzwords (“bright” “dark” “accurate” “resolution” “bassy”) until I got into audio gear in the late '70s. I heard some audio gear that made me wince due to (what I heard as) exaggerated transients, painfully aggressive treble; flat/2-dimensional sound stage, concussive (yet unnatural) bass, etc. I also encountered other gear that was the polar opposite–simply sounding more or less like real music played in real spaces. I’ve sought the latter ever since.

This same split audio reality now plays out for me in headphone audio: certain amps & headphones immediately soothe, please, and gratify me, while others razor my ears off & are frankly aversive.

The thing is that live music never sounds like any of these buzzwords. It’s just there, enveloping, immersive, compelling. It can be too loud/too soft; you can sit too close to instruments & get ear-bleeds. But generally, music is indivisible, monolithic; the sound defies analysis. In person, highs sound tinkly & crystalline (but decay almost immediately), while bass seems physical, moving one’s chest. Audio is, at best, a pleasing impersonation of the real thing.

In recent weeks I listened to 2 loaner headphones that are among the few audio products I’ve heard that bridge the divide between “musical/natural/organic” & “detailed/accurate/resolving.” I refer to ZMF’s Verite open & Verite closed. I’ve never heard more detail, resolution, and sheer density of audio information from any other headphones–yet there’s no wincing, fidgeting, and discomfort at the sonic assault. These headphones sound like music.

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I don’t know much about it either but BBC had, as you say, an LS series of studio monitors, LS3 for remote or outside the studio monitoring (usually in a van) and LS5 for in studio. Various companies were given licenses by the BBC to manufacture the monitors according to BBC specifications and standards. The BBC were at the forefront of acoustical research. Floyd Toole says that D.E.L. Shorter of the BBC was the first to accurately measure and identify sources of driver and cabinet resonances in the late 1950’s.

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There is a well known quote attributed to various musicians, “writing about music is like dancing about architecture.” At first I thought, ok, perhaps it is pointless to try and write about music but as mentioned we do talk about and describe food and the visual arts, which seem to have their appropriate lexicon so why not music and sound? Music and the craft of making instruments has been around for a very long time, there must be an associated lexicon. As most know, in classical music there is a very developed one, mostly intended to guide the musician in reading notation. But what about instruments, surely there must be a lexicon used to describe the sound of an instrument in order to assess its performative qualities and surely that lexicon would be very appropriate to describe the sound of audio gear. So I did a basic Google search and found various ramblings about tone, timbre and texture and words to describe these characteristics but nothing that was standardized, like a glossary to describe the sound of a wood or brass instrument for instrument makers. Perhaps others might know of such a glossary.

Anyway, this website discusses the difference between tone and timbre, which some might find interesting: Terminology of Tone – Laurie Riley Music

According to the website:
Tone: the quality of an instrument’s or voice’s sound, which is the product of several factors. Some informal descriptions of tonal quality might include:
o Muddy: the unpleasant effect of clashing notes sounding simultaneously; often heard in instruments with long sustain (notes keep sounding when additional notes are sounded.
o Tinny: brash, harsh quality of tone.
o Brash: piercingly sharp, or unfocused (as in too many clashing overtones)
o Rich: the degree of audibility of pleasing overtones.
o Bright: exceptional richness, volume and clarity in the mid and upper range of the instrument.
o Mellow: less bright quality of tone (but not necessarily degree of volume), and perhaps fewer overtones and/or less sustain.
o Subtle: not overstated.
o Deep: the degree to which the lowest undertones of each note are discernable, and/or the bass range is pleasingly audible.
o Round: balanced quality of tone throughout the range of the instrument, from deep to bright.

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When your mind is in the gutter…this reads differently…and slightly incoherent…but mildly hilarious…sorry this is a poo post…I’m mildly ashamed…but, “my” inner humor sense couldn’t not post…

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I need a quote to know what your gutter poo mind is referring to :slight_smile:

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BBC: British Broadcast Channel; or in less SFW circles “big…” well that should suffice…

I’m sorry my teenage brain in my 38year old body…has gone the way of the gutter…

My friends call me Scheißer, so we are on the same page

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One more thing to add, while I agree with others that a glossary for people to adhere to is pointless because most people won’t adhere to it, I do think that a guide, which includes a short glossary would be useful for people who have never written a review or who would like to improve their reviews. Other than a short glossary, the guide could include a list of categories, characteristics or sections for a reviewer to keep in mind and to help the reviewer organise their thoughts. So for example, as many people have expressed a desire for a system that best reproduces a live experience, tone and timbre would be a couple of categories worth discussing in a review, along with headstage, frequency response, etc. Maybe I should have posed this in the “Thread Suggestions” thread?

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There is a Glossary that Headroom did that covers a lot of terms

Not all but a fair chunk of them

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That definition is not severe clear.

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I’m going with lyr 3 bifrost 2, Sony Dap basically will act as a 3rd dac that I can play around with EQ sound preferences etc… But I might pick up something like the El amp-atom-neutral type set up for a different presentation :man_shrugging:t5:.

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Variety is the spice of life! Experience is the only way you will know f you like something…

As a kid the first time I tried vanilla ice cream my mind was blown​:exploding_head: couldn’t imagine anything better…then I discovered rocky-road, gelato, froyo, sundaes, root beer floats, milk/malt shakes etc… I tell you what… I like a lot of things :wink: and with experience I appreciate even more the things I go back to as staples!

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