I almost went BF2 and Lyr3 as I heard so many good things about it. The only thing that prevented me was simply the decision to jump past the Lyr3 on the amp tier list. Time will tell if foolish or not.
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Thats cool…I sold most of my higher end or should I say higher cost amps and am perfectly content with the Lyr 3…
I dont think the higher cost amps or higher “tier” amps won’t work well I just dont think they will work that much better…but again its my opinion from my experience…
I am listening with the Jotenheim and Clears and loving it!!! Really sweet…
Alex
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That all depends on what you are looking for an AMP, You looking for nothing, than you will find nothing 
If you do look for something specifically on them… Sound, features, etc… You will find it 
Is not about how better they work but what you are getting out of them 
You can get a 50 dollar AMP and be super happy if you are getting what you are looking for, on the other hand you could get a 3k AMP and be super unhappy and disjointed.
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Ha!! Been there done that!! Including building many, many amps…its all about the sound here…but you have to be able to afford it as well…
:>)
Alex
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Thats #1! for all of us!
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Been using the Clears with the Jotenheim all this morning and even now…golly gee good here!!
Alex
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I cant wait for mine to come back from Repair 
I know that sound! I do use a Loki when I switch to the Jot though 
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I know I’m late to the party, and @Torq already gave a lot of info, but as a owner of Modi 3 DS / Magni 3+ combo and a Beyer DT770 PRO (250 ohm), probably the proper term here is “too bright” instead of “too small”.
You won’t even need the high gain to blast your ears out in highly compressed songs from the past decade, for instance.
The good thing of this combo is portability (despite the ugly wall wart from Magni). I bought this combo to leave it in the office. Brought back home during the lock-down. Easy-peezy. And it’s just $200.
Cheers.
I’d say that’s not the fault of the DAC or amp, to be clear. Would you agree?
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Right. 3 variables in my sentence. I use the Modi/Magni combo every day. My Beyer is always in the drawer. But I do use it every now and then. I just find it too fatiguing. Don’t want to get rid of it either. 
Never heard the 1990 though. Just read/heard they all share the same sound signature in the highs. For treble-heads, it’s definitely a good purchase. Just not for me.
I believe its big but its a linear one…
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I know this is getting way off topic, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right?
That is actually the only thing that intrigues me about the Magni 3+. And it’s not the unit itself.
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I got both Bifrost 1 multibit Rev B (May 2019). and Bifrost 2 (March 2020) currently at home.
I thought I’d have some fun comparing them during this lockdown.
Comparing exclusively via usb so far (rev5 Vs Unison), I have received the Bifrost 2 2 weeks ago, and it remains turned on at all times.
I mostly use my (modest) work headphone system for this comparison:
PC -> Bifrost (SE) -> DIY W.H.A.M.M.Y HPA -> HD58X modded:
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I found that the biggest difference is the sound stage , which is laid back and very wide on B2, and more forward and a bit more flat (in comparison) on B1.
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Bass slam is better on B2, but surprisingly only in the low bass.
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I found Bifrost 2 to sound cleaner than B1, as if B1 suffered from a bit of mid congestion. The more I listen to it, the more this congestion seems related to B1’s worse/more fuzzy imaging, and to be responsible for the less clean presentation, mostly when mids are involved.
It makes for less meat/body on the B2 acoustic guitars, less “saturated” bass lines, which sometimes can sound like a lack of bite on mid-centric tracks.
On the other end of the spectrum, those transients are really impressive on the B2, with a lot more nuances than B1.
Because of this, Bifrost 2 sounds warmer on low frequency content (double bass for example), and actually brighter when there is some treble content (acoustic guitars, trumpets…). B2 definitely sounds more extended on both ends, especially top end. (V shaped if you will compared to B1)
While B2 is more extended, I get less listening fatigue than on B1. Interesting -
Attack and decay sound faster on B2 to my ears, as notes seem to start (leading edge/transient dynamic) and stop (decay) pretty much instantly, at least faster than B1.
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Bifrost 2 is a lot less noisy at idle than Bifrost1: with Bifrost 1, I could hear a distinct hiss noise at full amp volume, while there is nothing with the Bifrost 2. Note that this full amp volume is around 9dB higher than the max volume I ever use, at which hiss noise cannot be heard. So practically not a real issue, but still a nice improvement.
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The click made during sample rate switch across songs is a bit more quiet on B2, and more important, very fast: Bifrost1 was missing the first 1.5s of the song, while Bifrost2 only misses less than 0.5s, to the point where it is slightly annoying, but can live with it on a random playlist.
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Bifrost 2 usb connector is a lot more firm and less flimsy than on Bifrost1.
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Phase inversion makes a difference, especially on trumpets, but also where I did not expect it: some clean bass lines become colored when the phase is inverted. That’s too big of a difference to just be a phase inversion. Something I will have to investigate.
So far in a blind test, I prefer phase inversion OFF (amp is non-inverting too). -
It is possible to better “isolate” optically the front leds , I used some Blue Tack in between each led’s transparent piece of plexiglass, creating a small “wall”. Light bleeding improved a lot… good enough for now.
@Torq, feel free to erase this message if you do not accept duplicate from SBAF.
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Hi @Torq. This is my first post on this forum. I have been an active member at HeadFi for well over a decade and a very light member at SBAF for a few years. I joined here because frankly I really like this forum UX versus the others. It is actually the same platform as the NAIM Audio Community. I am also from Washington, DC and frequently go to meet-ups, at least back during the P.C. times. (Pre-Covid)
Well, here we are in the “during” Covid times and who knows, maybe my wife and I will both be unemployed by September along with 30% of the adult working U.S. population. With that in mind, I guess I am not “HiFI dreaming” as big I used to.
For many years, I have been dead-set on a Yiggy A2 (in black). Right now, my wife would kill me if I made a $2500-ish HiFi purchase. Besides its price, its footprint has always been a little bit of turn-off for me.
A step down in price is the Chord Qutest. Talk about the best footprint of any DAC on the market. Price is more reasonable at “Yiggy GS” levels but still a bit high during Covid times. I have compared MANY a Chord DAC to many a Schiit DAC through Focal Utopia HPs at several meet-ups. I am talking several hours worth of head-to-head comparisons, even Yiggy A2 vs. DAVE. I prefer the Schiit house sound to Chord house sound, although I have never heard the Qutest.
I am looking to upgrade my lowly Schiit Modi MB A1 (gen 1) DAC, which (laughably) sits between my CAPS HTPC and my NAIM SuperNait3 integrated amp, which sends music to my Dynaudio Contour 20 speakers in a 2.0 living room setup. Most people in my shoes would be looking at a comparably priced DAC around 5k USD. Well, that is not me right now. (Actually, most NAIM fans would be using the NDX2 streamer to pair with the SuperNait3 and it runs for $7,500 USD without power supply upgrades!)
So what upgrade can I dream of?
All of the glowing “little Yiggy” reviews of the Bifrost 2 have certainly piqued my attention.
Would it be an upgrade from my original Modi MB?
Would it sound best via SE to the DIN input of my NAIM amp?
OR
Would it sound best via a XLR/SE converter to the DIN input of my NAIM amp?
(This converter costs $300.00 USD: https://www.jensen-transformers.com/product/pc-2xr/)
Any thoughts?
Thanks and be well.
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Yes, the Bifrost 2 is an upgrade over your original Modi MB. A significant upgrade at that, especially if you’re using USB as the input.
Use normal NAIM RCA (SE) to DIN cables from the SE outputs on the Bifrost 2.
Bifrost 2 is inherently single-ended. The balanced output is derived from the SE output of the DAC stage via op-amps, so you’re doing two unnecessary conversions if you use its balanced outputs and then convert them back to single-ended.
Using the balanced outputs on the Bifrost 2 makes the most sense when feeding an amplifier that is inherently balanced. Otherwise, you’re better off using the SE outputs.
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Thanks for the reply. That is all helpful.
I know you just LOVE this question and have probably answered it before: How much more listening pleasure and satisfaction do you personally get out of the Qutest and Yiggy A2 versus the Bifrost 2? Does the Chord give you 100% more satisfaction? The Yiggy A2 300% more satisfaction? Finally, which of the three takes the #1 Bang-for-Buck prize knowing that each DAC is pretty incredible at its own price point. AM throwing the GS into the list too, just for fun. Perhaps there is a stellar DAC I am missing from this? I would argue these are some of the best under the $2,500 price point.
Schiit Bifrost 2: $699.00
Schiit Yggdrasil GS: $1,599.00
Chord Qutest: $1,695.00
Schiit Yggdrasil A2: $2,449.00
The Bifrost 2 is easily the best bang for the buck in that list.
Differences between DACs, competent ones at least, are very small. They can be important differences, but they’re generally still small compared to what you’ll experience between different transducers or amplifiers. And among competent DACs, even going from the most basic Grace SDAC all the way up to an M-Scaler fed DAVE, or the complete dCS Vivaldi stack, “satisfaction” doesn’t jump by 100% and certainly not more than that.
Hell, sticking to “competent” as a requirement, only transducers and turntables (and their ancillaries) give anything approaching differences of two orders of magnitude in performance.
In fact, I’d lay it out more like this:
If I put the M-Scaler-fed DAVE at a nominal score of 100 (as it’s the best digital reproduction I’ve heard to date), then an Yggdrasil A2/Unison would score a 97 or a 98. The Qutest and Bifrost 2 would hit around 95 or 96. A Modi MB or Grace SDAC would come in around 90.
I look at the Yggdrasil GS as something for those that a) want the original Yggdrasil’s presentation and/or b) are stuck using Windows versions earlier than 10. Otherwise, at this point, I’d actually go with the Bifrost 2 if the Yggdrasil A2/Unison was out of reach.
The only pure DAC I’d add to your list, under $2,500, would be the Matrix X-Sabre Pro (MQA), though there are some AOI units that are interesting also, and the Holo Audio Spring DAC is still where it’s at for a NOS DAC in that price range (I enjoy NOS DACs, but increasingly found myself going back to OS designs … and that’s where I’ve stayed, since).
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I have a Bifrost MultiBit that was bought new in May, 2019, and am thinking of replacing it with a Bifrost 2.
I know from your prior posts that the Bifrost 2 is a big improvement over its prior version, but am curious as to approximately how much.
On the scale above where the M-Scaler-fed DAVE is 100 and the Bifrost 2 is around 95 or 96, what would the rough rating be for the Bifrost MB?
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Thanks, appreciate your replies. I have also done a bit of A/Bing Yiggy A1 to the Holo and preferred the former still. This was on a decently high-end 2.0 speaker setup. Have never heard a Matrix DAC.
I have the Bifrost 2 and Qutest feed ZMF Pendant on Susvara. You can A/B the two DACs easily, since it two RCA ins, Dropping the Qutest to 2 Volts ( Green Setting) out to match the Bifrost 2 ( default is 3 v on the Qutest), There still seem to be little more treble and midrange reproduction on the Qutest it is slight. Honestly, they are both great DACs.
On ZMF Amp, I normally use the 3-volt setting (Blue setting) with the Qutest.
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