# Which DAC would you get and why? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Headphone Discussion\ **Created:** [January 2, 2020, 3:26am UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673 "2020-01-02T03:26:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![headjourney](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/headjourney/32/7162_2.png) [@headjourney](https://forum.headphones.com/u/headjourney)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/21 "2020-01-02T16:36:59Z")
Like ProfFalkin, I’m uncomfortable with this way of categorizing DACs – or perhaps any piece of equipment. I’m also uncomfortable with people who talk about “hearing their DAC.” We don’t hear our DACs. What we’re hearing is our cans and the equipment chain that’s upstream. In fact, the less we hear our DAC in the chain, the better. The best DACs are flat, providing as little distortion as possible. If we change our cans, the SQ also changes. This is why most headphone hobbyists have a range of reference cans, DACs, and amps. If we swap out the amp, the SQ changes again. The same goes with switching DACs. Balanced and SE toss yet another wrinkle into the SQ. Music genre and recording quality, too, make a difference. With cans, even the type of speaker cushions can make a difference. With amps, SS vs. tubes provides even more variations to consider. For a more objective measure of the line-ups I’m experimenting with, I invested in a MiniDSP EARS. The EARS exposed a phase conversion problem with my newly acquired SMSL SU-8 V2. I couldn’t actually hear the difference, but this issue was enough for me to return the DAC. This switching of components in a chain is a process of elimination to either discover the best synergy or pinpoint the weak link in our line-ups. In short, if a new DAC in a chain produces poor SQ at the headphones end, it may not mean that the DAC is bad. It simply means that it may not be in sync with the other components. ---
**Author:** ![rrwwss52](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/rrwwss52/32/945_2.png) [@rrwwss52](https://forum.headphones.com/u/rrwwss52)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/22 "2020-01-02T17:58:47Z")
I have several DACs. Wyred4Sound DAC2vse 10th anniversary Benchmark DAC3 Schiit Bitfrost Meridian Prime Arcam Sonlink The W4S ($4500) and Benchmark ($2200) are my two favorites. The Benchmark DAC3 HGC is also a headphone amp. A solid choice for someone looking for a combo unit. ---
**Author:** ![pennstac](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/pennstac/32/381_2.png) [@pennstac](https://forum.headphones.com/u/pennstac)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/23 "2020-01-02T18:03:47Z")
Tell me what you like about the W4S. I’ve looked at it from time to time, I have the STI-1000 as the integrated amp in my main home system (speakers, obviously). ---
**Author:** ![rrwwss52](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/rrwwss52/32/945_2.png) [@rrwwss52](https://forum.headphones.com/u/rrwwss52)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 7:37pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/24 "2020-01-02T19:37:39Z")
Integrates nicely with my W4S STP-SE Stage 2 preamp, and W4S multichannel power amp (MC7x250). Can be used as a digital preamp. Unit is half rack width compact. Inputs include AES/EBU, i2s over HDMI, USB, coax RCA, and toslink inputs. Dual DAC output via XLR and RCA. HT bypass if you need it. DAC-2v2se 10th anniversary has crisp red display and many upgraded parts. The DAC has several user adjustable features (filters, volume management). W4S stuff is super dependable. I’ve had more than my fair share of warranty claims using PSAudio stuff, so being bullet proof is a big deal to me. Sound is very neutral and crisp. I’ve been a customer of W4S since 2011. I had a base version 1 DAC-2 (2011) and sold it, and ending up trying a PS Audio DAC for awhile. PS Audio makes good stuff, but IMO, QC is lacking. The bridge ii was an issue at times. I also had an STI-500 integrated amp before switching to the straight preamp. W4S is dependable comfort for me if that makes sense. It sounds good. It works as designed. > **[DAC-2v2SE 10th Anniversary Limited Edition](https://wyred4sound.com/products/digital-converters/dac-2v2se-10th-anniversary-limited-edition)** > > The DAC-2v2SE 10th Anniversary Limited Edition DAC marks a historic milestone for us. Limited production run and destined to be a collector item. > **[STP-SE](https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se)** > > Our flagship stereo preamplifier is a unique passive/active design, and an award-winning giant killer. > **[STP-SE/STI/DAC Aluminum Remote Control](https://wyred4sound.com/products/upgrades-accessories/stp-se-sti-dac-aluminum-remote-control)** > > CNC machined anodized aluminum remote control for STP-SE, STI and DAC units."This new remote is very nice indeed. It has to be the heaviest most solid remote I have ever felt! Great feel to it for sure." Randy M. > **[MC](https://wyred4sound.com/products/power-amps/mc)** > > Our most powerful multichannel amplifier provides an incredibly lifelike, exhilirating audio or home theter experience. ---
**Author:** ![prfallon69](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/prfallon69/32/43781_2.png) [@prfallon69](https://forum.headphones.com/u/prfallon69)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 9:11am UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/25 "2020-01-03T09:11:16Z")
Hello and welcome @headjourney. ---
**Author:** ![headjourney](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/headjourney/32/7162_2.png) [@headjourney](https://forum.headphones.com/u/headjourney)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/26 "2020-01-03T18:04:17Z")
Hi, and thank you. ---
**Author:** ![MRHifiReviews](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/mrhifireviews/32/13974_2.png) [@MRHifiReviews](https://forum.headphones.com/u/MRHifiReviews)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/27 "2020-01-03T18:45:57Z")
Well if money was no object I would likely get a more expensive DAC than what I bought which was the SMSL SU-8, since Price was a factor for me and picking it up for around $170 after price match around Black Friday I feel it is a pretty good value but surely not the best sounding DAC on this list even if it measures extremely well. I did see that the new RME ADI is coming out very soon. Looks like a very interesting offer albeit almost 6.5 times more expensive than my DAC. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MuseMuff](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/musemuff/32/8534_2.png) [@MuseMuff](https://forum.headphones.com/u/MuseMuff)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/28 "2020-02-24T18:19:14Z")
> [@jb77](#): > > Curious to see what ‘you’ would pick and why, also if your dac is not on the list, let me know which dac you are considering. The one I’m getting is not on the list. It’s the Moon 230HAD DAC/Headphone amp. It retails for $1,950 which is dirt-cheap for anything by Moon (Simaudio). It doesn’t have 38 connectors for inter-galactic connectivity but it has what I want, considering I will only be using the USB DAC from it, not the amp. Analog inputs (won’t be used) include 1 single-ended on rear-mounted RCA’s and 1 single-ended on 1/8” jack located on the front panel. Analog outputs include a ¼” TRS headphone jack as well as both fixed and variable single-ended line-level RCA stereo pairs which is what I need. As for digital inputs it’s a fully asynchronous DAC with 4 digital inputs (S/PDIF x 2, TosLink x 1 & USB x 1) It supports DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 (USB input only); Supports PCM up to 24-bit/192kHz (all inputs) and 32-bit/384kHz (USB input only).Not stellar specs, in fact pretty much the same as the V1 except for higher DSD capacity but I need a second DAC and it’s enough for my need… and it’s Moon, the name alone probably counts for half the price. But it’s pretty much the same with Focal/Naim/Micromega/Arche and whatever esoteric brand is out there. It’s also a beautiful object albeit large-ish at over 6 lbs but smaller (somewhat) than the DAC V1 and I don’t want a V1 twin Amplifier is purely analog using a transconductance circuit, whatever that means. It has an oversized power supply using 1 toroidal transformer (so in theory very low noise) in conjunction with 8 stages of DC voltage regulation. That sounds like a lot of caps so maybe their PSU is not as quiet as they claim, but in theory this shouldn’t affect the DAC section. For amplification I’m forwarding the signal to my current DAC V1 which has a class A room heater in it and to two fully restored volt swingers (vintage receivers) Pioneer SX-1250 and SX-650 both of which are good volt swingers so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/gordon_freeman/32/35845_2.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/29 "2020-02-24T19:15:22Z")
As one who is out looking for a new DAC, this is a great discussion; it doesn’t help me because am still in the dark re what to get, but perhaps more enlightend now. I have looked at several from the list and some other than those: 1. SMSL SU-8 2. Airist R2R 3. Schiit Bifrost 2 4. Denafrips Ares II 5. Schiit Gungir Multibit 6. RME ADI 2 Dac And: Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus (can get it at $210…) SMSL SU-9 (maybe out in May) I want to pair it with a Rupert Neve RNHP amp, but as $ is an issue, I don’t want to decide too quickly. Currently I have the Monolith by Monoprice THX dac/amp and I like it, but it is too neutral. I actually prefer my Xduoo Xd05 Plus over the Monolith. So reading the posts in hope to find the right DAC. ---
**Author:** ![MRHifiReviews](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/mrhifireviews/32/13974_2.png) [@MRHifiReviews](https://forum.headphones.com/u/MRHifiReviews)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/30 "2020-02-24T19:21:11Z")
I have two of the DACS on your list @Gordon_Freeman SMSL-SU8V2 10th Anniversary Version as well as the Bifrost 2. Both sound different, one is more sterile and analytical SU8-V2 the other is smoother sounding Bifrost, more enjoyable. I think that distinction is important on what you are going for as well as if you have any upper frequency hearing loss, as sometimes brighter components help to hear more detail from what I have read. For me I preferred the more relaxed sound of the Bifrost2. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/gordon_freeman/32/35845_2.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/31 "2020-02-24T19:31:42Z")
Thanks! I got sterile already in the Monolith, so the Bifrost could be interesting. But the price is also more than double up. The Cambridge is tempting as a temp solution, but I hate temp solutions… 🤨 ---
**Author:** ![ValentineLuke](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/valentineluke/32/9729_2.png) [@ValentineLuke](https://forum.headphones.com/u/ValentineLuke)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/32 "2020-02-24T19:49:48Z")
I’m in similar circumstances. I want to upgrade a dac that I use in one of my audio chains. I decided on the Bifrost 2, but $700 is a bit to part with on something I don’t technically _need_. I’ve been tempted to go with a cheaper alternative but in the end, why waste the money that could’ve gone towards what I really want? I also have an RNHP and I love it. ---
**Author:** ![Audio\_Prom](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/audio_prom/32/9819_2.png) [@Audio\_Prom](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Audio_Prom)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/33 "2020-02-24T20:11:12Z")
I may soon have to decide which DAC to get for LYR 3. I think I have a good picture in my head of what to expect from Bifrost 2, after quite a bit of information I’m getting from the owners here. Before i pull the trigger though, i need to do quite a bit of burn in and testing of the amp and tube for the next few weeks. I should be getting the amp today and couple tubes next month (Psvane mk II and Sylvania Bad Boy). If this amp and tube combo can give me the warmth I’m looking for, then I probably have to look elsewhere for a different synergy. I’m looking for a good mix of warmth and detail, not an overbearing of one or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Torq](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/torq/32/16384_2.png) [@Torq](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Torq)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/34 "2020-02-24T20:34:53Z")
A few thoughts, at a very high-level: **SMSL SU-8** Competent but only interesting as a cheap-DAC that has decent measurements and XLR outputs. Has issues/audible glitches when switching rates/formats under Windows. Can be harsh, not a great pairing with the RNHP, which doesn’t need more treble energy or any lack of smoothness. **Airist R2R** If you’re looking for a “sweeter” sounding unit, with a more NOS-like sound (it’s not NOS, technically, it does 2x upsampling prior to conversion), it’s a pleasant listen. Was much more interesting in 2018. **Schiit Bifrost 2** Best bang-for-the-buck on the list as well as the most musically involving delivery. Often described as a mini-Yggdrasil A2, and I think it justifies that description. **Denafrips Ares II** Only reason to buy this is over the Bifrost 2 is if you want on-board DSD conversion. Even then I wouldn’t. Lack of ability to demo/return is a major issue here. No idea if the issues I found with the original version have been addressed. **Schiit Gungir Multibit** Not worth it over the Bifrost 2 unless you buy used AND run balanced from the DAC. “A2” version has a signature similar to that of the **original** Yggdrasil. There’s [one for sale here](https://forum.headphones.com/t/save-my-doggo-sale-everything-must-go-verite-c-eikon-aeolus-cables-gumby-a2/5406), at a good price, and from a chap I can personally recommend. **RME ADI 2 Dac** If you don’t need the built-in amp and EQ/DSP functionality, then the Bifrost 2 is a better bet. Micro-dynamics aside, the RNHP is no better than the built-in amp here and more of a side-grade/slight-downgrade from the built-in headphone output. Best D/S DAC this side of a Chord Qutest or Matrix X-Sabre Pro (MQA). **Cambridge Audio DACmagic Plus** Enjoyable, engaging, warmish Wolfson DAC implementation, subjectively very nice and a good complement to the RNHP. Objectively, a good way from what’s possible at the price. **SMSL SU-9 (maybe out in May)** May be out in May. May be good. May suck. Don’t bet on futures. * * * Add to your list, the Topping D90 (I’d like this DAC a lot more if “Topping” came up with a second brand with a name that didn’t sound like a low-rent, bad-side-of-town, mixed-cuisine restaurant). ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/gordon_freeman/32/35845_2.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/35 "2020-02-24T20:36:19Z")
Exactly! 😉 I just have to get the RNHP and a DAC at the same time, hence the $ focus. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/gordon_freeman/32/35845_2.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/36 "2020-02-24T20:38:23Z")
> [@Torq](#): > > I’d like this DAC a lot more if “Topping” came up with a second brand with a name that didn’t sound like a low-rent, bad-side-of-town, mixed-cuisine restaurant I hear you man!! And thx for the extensive walkthrough, it made me desire more than one new DAC 😱 🤣 > [@Torq](#): > > the RNHP is no better than the built-in amp here and more of a side-grade/slight-downgrade from the built-in headphone output. Are you saying that the amp in the RME is better than the RNHP? ---
**Author:** ![Torq](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/torq/32/16384_2.png) [@Torq](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Torq)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/37 "2020-02-24T20:46:57Z")
> [@Gordon\_Freeman](#): > > Are you saying that the amp in the RME is better than the RNHP? I’m saying that the RNHP, in either flavor (the raw RNHP or the Fidelice version) is **no better** than the built-in output on the RME. The RME is considerably more powerful, lower in noise, and objectively a **lot** better. The RNHP has slightly better micro-dynamics, a chintzy chassis, and Death Star laser-level LEDs on it. I think it’s **extremely** overpriced unless you NEED the high-headroom balanced inputs (99% of home uses don’t) vs. what else is available. And moderately overpriced even if you do. It’s technical performance falls behind the Magni 3+ at $99, and well behind the various balanced THX amps otherwise. And while I subjectively like it more than the THX amps, we’re not talking night and day here. Just because I like what Rupert Neve has done with some of his studio electronics, doesn’t blind (deafen) me in proper comparisons with his (or his derived) stuff for the home market. ---
**Author:** ![Gordon\_Freeman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/gordon_freeman/32/35845_2.png) [@Gordon\_Freeman](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Gordon_Freeman)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/38 "2020-02-24T20:55:07Z")
Well, you gave the reason to why the RNHP is a “must have”: > [@Torq](#): > > Death Star laser-level LEDs Hmm, this really gives me something to think about. I have for long been VERY interested in the RME, but found it difficult to justify getting it and the RNHP at the same time. I have a pair of Aeolus comming in near future and want something in the dac/amp area to match it. With the RME (and not the RNHP) there might be room for a decent tube amp. I got the Xduoo Ta10, but want something more. ---
**Author:** ![Torq](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/torq/32/16384_2.png) [@Torq](https://forum.headphones.com/u/Torq)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 8:59pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/39 "2020-02-24T20:59:27Z")
Well, if you were thinking about getting the RME **and** the RNHP, I would _start_ with the RME unit, since it’s all you need to have a functional system, see how you get on with it, and then add the RNHP later if you still wanted one/weren’t happy with the raw output of the RME unit. ---
**Author:** ![generic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/forum.headphones.com/generic/32/61169_2.png) [@generic](https://forum.headphones.com/u/generic)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673/40 "2020-02-24T21:06:06Z")
> [@Torq](#): > > “Topping” > [@Torq](#): > > that didn’t sound like a low-rent, bad-side-of-town, mixed-cuisine restaurant It’s a dessert topping and a floor wax! [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/headphones/original/3X/0/0/006dce7f640ff123db17407575ed8472d7fa18fc.jpeg "Shimmer") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPO8PqHGWFU) When SNL was actually funny. [Previous page](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.headphones.com/t/which-dac-would-you-get-and-why/4673.md?page=3)