Audeze LCD-5 - Official Thread

I got mine yesterday and I’m seriously impressed. Thanks to @Resolve and his review who got me dipping my toes into, uh, “summit hi-fi” or whatever the kids call it nowadays. And thanks to Headphones.com. But man… this is nuts.

I just need a RME ADI-2 eq profile. I’m playing around with Resolve’s, but I’d love to see something “properly” converted to an RME profile so that I can go from there.

Even then, I’m pretty happy with where it stands - just tweaked the bass a bit, and the treble, and it’s almost there. I love this thing. My 2021 LCD-X are going for sale now.

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It feels a bit odd/heretical to post a critical review to a forum that got me so excited about the LCD-5 but perhaps these forums by their nature lack reports of being underwhelmed. This is just my experience so not meant as a criticism of anyone elses impressions.

I listened through a Zahl referance Mixing HM1 headphone amp. I will say this should be on everyone’s list for TOTL amps. It made my LCD-X sound phenomenal, way beyond what i’m used to. I will have to limit the praise or risk going off topic.

I was able to switch between the X and the 5 and honestly this is not worth the 3k upgrade. for me, It isn’t. not even close. Even the guy that was employed to sell them to me agreed they are borderline awful (only after I had formed my own opinion).

I felt nothing but utter disappointment when demoing them. Not just disappointment but actually a bit sad. Thin. Nassal. Average soundstage. Pretty good detail but even that seemed somewhat hyped and artificial. Mid boost seems like a gimmick. Ultimately boring and borderline insulting for the price. This just isn’t the leap forward I was hoping for. Bass is completely absent. LCD-X’s bass is more satisfying and has near similar soundstage. Sure, X seems a bit veiled in comparison but it doesn’t sound as dead inside like the 5. There is more dimensionality/depth in the 5’s upper mids but overall party trick comes off as synthetic.

The design is just tacky. Carbon fiber smacks of sandal/combat short wearing boomers and tortoise shell is prep-douch boat shoe territory. The two combined results in some unholy fashion hellscape. Just an utterly disgusting combination. Ultimately I don’t care about how they look if they sound okay. But 5 goddamned years!! This is your best?

Was really gutted about this. I hoped that it would be my first TOTL purchase but came away so underwhelmed. To everyone reading this thread I would say try them out but in a way that allows for comparison with other cheaper headphones.

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The LCD-5 needs more EQ’ing than the LCD-X (2021) to sound ‘normal’ / ‘right’.

After owning the LCD-2, LCD-2F, LCD-X2021, LCD-XC 2021, LCD-5 and applying EQ to my preference target to all of them I can say the LCD-5 is miles apart in detail and clarity.

If you demoed the LCD-5 without EQ I can totally understand your comments and would have to agree on a lot of it comparing it to the LCD-X 2021 without EQ.

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What was the source feeding the amp and did you compare the headphones through the same setup?

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I brought my own macbook and played 24 bit / 96hz files and up. My battery died then the store owner played HQ files from amazon. Both headphones through the Zahl amp. LCD-X sounded incredible through it. The 5…meh

EDIT: Mytek DAC

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Yes unfortunately I did not have access to EQ. I am 100% an advocate of tweaking a headphone within reason. I should have qualified that my impressions were without EQ.

@Ooidal I appreciate your honest review. Short of intentional smearing or shilling a product for the wrong reasons, you should never be called out for sharing your personal experiences, so I hope that doesn’t happen here. I’m sorry the 5 wasn’t for you. Many others will likely disagree, but at least now you know.

I really enjoy my 2021 LCD-X, so much so that I’ve sold all other open-back headphones (besides a pair of Sennheisers I use strictly for gaming). It sounds like you’re really enjoying yours, so at least you still have that going for you, and at a fraction of the cost of the LCD-5. You can use that money for something else - nothing wrong with that.

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I genuinely think that prolonged listening would yield a greater appreciation. My opinion was formed over 2 hours. I normally don’t give impressions but my experience was so out of whack with everything I had read that I felt it might be of value to those on the fence.

I reiterate that anyone thinking of dropping such a large wodge of cash should do so only after a listening session with other headphones they know well.

And yes I love my 2021 LCD-X. I am also really grateful to the reviewers and Headphones.com forum members who guided me to them.

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@Ooidal I appreciate your honest review. Short of intentional smearing or shilling a product for the wrong reasons, you should never be called out for sharing your personal experiences, so I hope that doesn’t happen here. I’m sorry the 5 wasn’t for you. Many others will likely disagree, but at least now you know.

Yes, agreed, at least you gave them a try and let your own ears be the judge.

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Every Audeze I’ve heard is underwhelming without EQ.

LCD2, 3, 4, X and 5.

Its sort of their thing. Build best technical performer they can, don’t tune it to shit and crush its detail or dynamics, and let people EQ to suit tonal preferences. At least it seems to be.

The X is the bang for buck proposition for sure. But I believe the step to the 5 is there. In soundquality and very importantly, comfort.

If I had a choice, maybe carbon fibre cups too instead of old school Raybans.

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The LCD-5 looks like it actually needs burn-in; several people, including myself, found that after a few days of listening, it transformed. Some of that is the ear pads softening; I don’t know if that’s all of it or some, but Audeze has made no secret that they make their drivers be flat, and tune their house sound via the pads, and the pads adjust and change the sound over time.

All I know is that I’ve never experienced burn-in, on any headphone (including LCD-4/i4), IEM, amp, or other sound device, but I definitely did with the LCD-5. I thought it was great from day 1, but something did seem missing, similar to what you described. Since day 3, I am extremely happy with it.

To me it’s not an EQ issue. I’ve added only a small single band bass shelf because I’m an EDM fan, but that’s not what changed the signature, and I don’t find my EQ to be necessary, just nice for some bass heavy tracks.

It makes sense that with only two hours of listening you were underwhelmed. I’m not saying your opinion would definitely change with more listening; just that it seems to be a frequent experience for many.

Regardless thank you for your honest opinion, no product is perfect or suitable for everyone. There is nothing wrong with that.

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Are you talking in terms of tonality?
I agree no headphones should be more than 2-3k, but I digress.
What about technical performance? This is all I care about. Tonality is all subjective and is little to no value to me as I would eq anything.

It has top tier technical performance.

I have recently sold my Susvara and Final D8000.

No regrets.

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Transients seemed snappier. Positioning of sounds back to front was improved but neither of those things jumped out at me, I had to go looking for them. Difficult to gage technicality when frequencies are off kilter.

For what it’s worth I listened to the utopia and thought it was good but not worth the upgrade either.

Store owner said they had been burned in over the past few weeks

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I will be publishing a 3-way review of LCD-R, LCD5 & CRBN in the coming days, but after catching up on this LCD5 discussion, and reading some drama, I feel like a few topics should be properly assessed or considered at least.

The tuning

People are going on about how these need EQ, and I thoroughly disagree. Truth be told, these are reference headphones, and are tuned this way. Now, I appreciate that, many others do as well, but let’s be honest, a reference tuning is not going to be as thrilling or generally “natural” sounding like most headphones tailored towards Harman.

Do I like Harman? The latest Harman target - No, not that much. But my preferred tuning is somewhere between what LCD5 graphs and Harman 2013 target. @Resolve is my favorite reviewer, and I agree whole-heartedly with nearly everything he writes, because he is self-aware and shows little-to-no bias - a true blessing to a community plagued with all sorts of goofs of reviewers. But even if I agree with most everything, personal preferences and subjective opinions will always lead to the end-user valuing different things with different weight to it.

When I got my LCD5, he suggested I try the EQ’s (as shown in this thread), which I appreciated, but disagreed on finding them to improve the LCD5. I prefer the stock tuning; I actually find it exceptional and barely needing any EQ, and found the EQ to take away from the effortlessness ever slightly. Who’s wrong, me, or Andrew? Nobody. Nobody is more wrong or right actually, we value different things, and it’s much more minute and nuanced of a difference, but at this level, audiophiles employ hyperbole a lot - we kind of need to to differentiate generally exceptional products that are more difficult to criticize. The upper midrange LCD5 shoutiness, to me, is really not an issue. I find it energetic, not shouty, but many genuinely find it shouty. I personally find the upper treble registers more bothersome with this headphone, at least, the lack of airiness. I find it to make the headphones sound less spacious, but then again, this probably helps with it being more in your face and engaging. I don’t listen to as much metal as Andrew does, can it be as simple as that? Where the musical pairing is more brutal in the upper mids :man_shrugging: ? Yes and no maybe.

Everything is a balancing act.

Things need to be considered. Everyone who owns an LCD5 does not hear it the same due to multiple reasons. Here are some:

  • Your music choices -

This is obvious, and LCD5 is going to sound good with everything in my opinion, but may play better with female vocals, or acoustic music, or film scores, or EDM, etc etc. You decide, but assessment of this product will be affected by the user’s musical preferences no matter what.

  • Your listening level -

Low level listeners and high volume listeners do not hear the same output. With some headphones, it is drastic. No many in this hobby seem to think of this, but it’s a crucial component in assessing a product. With increase in volume, there is the smiley curve effect; bass & treble will always perceptually increase exponentially relative to the midrange as you increase volume. It adds “dynamics” or at least a sense of.

I will always remember my first time hearing the MrSpeakers Ether - a friend of mine claimed it sounded super dynamic, and upon listening to it, I found it to be quite literally one of the least dynamic things I’ve ever heard. Then I saw he was listening to them at least 20dB louder than I was. It was a completely different sounding headphone… Personally I found this scary lol.

  • Your chain & signal path -

Turntable vs CD vs Streaming vs Lossless Files vs Youtube & or Soundclound playlists?

DAC - Delta-Sigma vs FPGA, vs R2R?

Amp - Tube or Solid State? Dedicated headphone amp or speaker taps? Power amp or integrated amp? Class A, AB, C or D circuit.

Tube topology - Single Ended, Push Pull, Output Transformerless?

Cables - Copper vs SPC vs Silver? Capacitance, number of strands, oxygen and noise shielding, braiding, etc. Am I being ridiculous, totally! But hey, it’s a factor.

  • Listening habits & environment -

Do you listen late at night when you’re tired and want to wind down, or mid day while working and trying to be productive. Energize yourself through music, or let yourself go into a dark void and lose yourself in it?

Are you secluded and in a quiet environment, or are you in proximity of others?

Do you close your eyes when listening? (this is huge)

I’m crazy right? These are all such small things, surely it can’t yield that much of a difference in the listening experience? Well, compound all of the above together, and I’m sure we’re looking at, say, 5 to 10% variance from a mean. That is enough to swing the perception of a well tuned product from either: amazingly well tuned but warm, to amazingly well tuned but a bit too forward, or simply “wow these are so realistic I’m digging deep to try to find my gripes with it!”.

The Topic of EQ

Here is why EQ has, in my opinion, grown so much in its application in the hobby over the years.

  1. Audio gear, especially headphones and iem’s have surged in technical performance in the last decade especially, offering fantastic distortion measures (lack of), which is immediately more enticing for EQ application.

  2. There is no perfectly neutral headphone. No matter what anyone says, too many constraints at play. Driver in a chamber, positioning on head/ in-ear, energy dissipation, damping, physical anatomy of end-user’s head or ear & many more. You can bet your ass EQ is an awesome tool to overcome, or at least alter some of these challenges.

  3. Correction of properties of sound such as sense of dynamism (notably physical tactility), timbre, imaging and staging can all be altered through EQ, for better or for worse. However, EQ will always yield compression, no exception - luckily the human ear may be deaf to it with many of the TOTL offerings, again due to the fabulous accomplishments in reduced distortion which go beyond the limitations of our eardrum.

I don’t know why I rambled so much, but there’s no going back now…

All this to say, LCD5 and EQ seems to be a hot topic as of late, and I think it’s important to bridge the gap between “non EQ purists” and “EQ is life” clans of thought.

I myself am not the biggest fan of the essence of EQ’ing, yet grew to employ it as a tool over time. Ironically, I use EQ mostly on some of my favorite headphones (Susvara, HD800, LCD5 & KSE1500) but have many more good audio gears that I do not feel compelled to EQ. I am happy to have options which each have their strengths & weakness, for different use cases.

A little goes a long way with EQ. @Resolve 's provided EQ’s are examples of that. Reduction of shout, lower treble boost and especially the bass shelf helps it bring it in-line with Harman target, which is a proven success since it is standardization of many listener’s perception of natural. Most will agree with this sound.

Personally, I find it a bit too bassy, so borrowing the inputs of provided EQ, I reduced the shelf a bit, and also the small treble peaking filter by a decibel. Also reduced the upper mid dip by half a decibel. Ultimately, I actually preferred the stock sound a bit as it sounded faster and a bit more transparent, however, a bit dull and lifeless comparatively. I’ve realized that @Torq and I probably have a similar ear over the few months of being on here, and maybe a bit more old school than most.

I’ve settled on simply using LCD5 with a bass shelf of 2dB from 180Hz down & a treble shelf from 7kHz up of 1.4dB (approximations by memory here, don’t have access to my data) when I want a bit more emotion, otherwise, I actually just leave the LCD5 as is on my slam stack.

For all of you “muh +10dB Bass shelf” folks. I reckon you look into getting a completely different headphone straight up, as this headphone, albeit being fantastic with EQ, was not really intended as guilty pleasure fun, but more of a “correct” piece of audio equipment. HE6, TH900, LCD4 & 1266TC are all fabulous options for those closet bassheads.

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Another thing is that Crin’s LCD-5 doesn’t measure nearly as dark in the treble as ours does:


vs

So I imagine this has something to do with it. If yours or other folks have an LCD-5 that’s closer to what Crin measured, then it’s unlikely my EQ profile would sound right.

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Very intriguing.

Possible that measurements beyond the presence region is a bit tricky to accurately capture?

Is the sweep done at the same volume from both measuring rigs/ same setup?

Definitely think mine sounds more like how it graphs on Headphones.com

The rigs and method are the same between the two. Some headphones change in that region, but generally if there was a difference in fit you’d see a difference in the lower registers as well. To me this just indicates some unit variation, which isn’t at all uncommon.

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For those who haven’t seen it yet, here’s @Chrono’s review:

Along with his EQ Profile for our unit here:

  • Low Shelf at 85hz, +4dB Q of 0.7
  • Peak at 3000hz, -3dB Q of 3
  • Peak at 5500hz, -2.5dB Q of 4
  • High Shelf at 6000hz, +4dB Q of 0.7
  • Peak at 8000hz, +1dB Q of 2

Once he sends it back over I’ll apply his and measure as well to see the result, but so far that looks fairly close to the things I adjusted as well.

Here’s the video review:

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Fantastic post - well stated!

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