Cables - 3rd Party/Upgrades & Recommendations

I was also naturally considering Hart as my first option and I will probably try them out with longer cable runs to my tube amp.
I’ve seen reports they thicken up the sound a tad, and while Periapt is not perfect I already have experience with their process and also their end product (which I’m happy with).

They did have low profile splitters for their limited run with Josh Valour and I’m sure they can either find a few leftover for requests, or shave down their original splitter as it’s just a bit of heatshrink material.
I sit far enough from my desk that I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a snagging issue with the splitter.

I’ve used several:

Cardas, Norne, Arctic, Periapt, and Moon Audio

Hard to go wrong with any of those.

I’ve got a couple of iterations of Silver Dragon, v2 and v3, and I like the sound quite a bit but the fact that it is relatively inflexible not being braided lay is the only thing I can find fault with.

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They use essentially the same wire, basic (cheap) quad mini microphone cable. 26awg ofc. There would be no sonic differences.

Last I checked, it was just the case that Periapt leave on the shield and jacket and sleeve, ending up with a very thick heavy cable. Hart just strip the jacket and shield off, and sleeve. The conductors are functionally the same.

More likely to see sonic differences between very different cables, say thin OFC (hart/periapt) vs very thick (Moon) or vs Litz or different metal types.

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I’ve been an aficionado of Audeze headphones since deciding that my trusty 1990s vintage Sony MDR-CD3000 phones could possibly be bested. Don’t get me wrong, they are still going strong after I surgically removed all of the dry rotted foam from within the earcups, recovered the leather headband and replace the earpads with aftermarket leather ones. I do love those cellulose drivers for sure!

Anyway, regarding my Audeze LCD-XCs, the LCD-4’s and my newest acquisiton the LCD-5s, my first foray into the world of upgrade cable was a 5 meter Kimber Kable Axios CU headphone cable. It did much to improve the sound provided by my jury-rigged (lenghtened) OEM unbalanced cable that came with the XCs and the 4Zs. With the Axios, I enjoyed much a improved three dimensional sound stage and also better microdetail retrieval with it comes to sibillance in the female voice and cymbals. Additionally, the layup of the Kimber weave is spectacular and feels very good on the skin and in the hand and is as non-microphonic as you could expect from a cable.

My next cable purchases were from Moon Audio (SIlver Dragon) and from DoubleHelixCables also in pure silver. I like them too and silver does provide a slightly altered listening experience that I can hear but cannot adequately verbalize. In my system I preferred the Axios to the Moon Audio, not so much because of the sound quality, but because of the stiffness and loss of flexibility that the cable architecture of the Moon Audio design provided. The Axios and DHC sound remarkably similar and, both being braided or woven cables, feel good physically to me as well. The build quality of the Kimber Axios is peerless among those cables that I have tried so far.

Fast forward to today and with the acquisiton of the new LCD-5s I decided to try a new Kimber Axios cable this time a 5 meter hybrid version using Ag and Cu conductors. I should have that cable in hand before too long and look foward to seeing if investing in a cable that costs almost 50% more than the headphones themselves was worth it. Wish me luck and 'll report back with what I find.

I’ve often heard very obvious differences between copper versus silver (or plated) wires, but everything can be subtle.

Heavy cables pull down and may press the pads closer to the ears. This could change the sound more than the electrical differences between wires. So, a fair comparison would require weighted sleeves to match the heaviest cable in the comparison.

Blind testing is valuable.

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@hifiDJ Moving the conversation here regarding digital cables (couldn’t find a thread for streamers). I think I am mostly satisfied on the headphones/amps/DAC side so now trying to sort out the last bit. Regarding digital cables, so far I haven’t invested seriously on that front but I don’t want to optimize everything and leave the source behind.

Since Holo DACs have pretty good USB implementations, I think it would make sense to go with USB. Would you mind sharing your experience in general with system synergy/SQ when it comes to USB cables?

It’ll depend on what you want in your system. If you want something on the analytical side, warmer, leaner, balanced, etc… all depends on what you think is “missing”

I haven’t tried a lot of digital cables but out of the ones I have, I’ve tried both supra USB cables then jumped to an fta callisto. I stopped after that since I was satisfied with the callisto. Now, I use an allnic mu-7r aes because the USB implementation on my main dac isn’t that great (and I like it over the callisto).

As for how they sound…

  • the basic supra I found to be on the warmer and forgiving side
  • the supra excalibur on the brighter and analytical side
  • the callisto on the balanced and organic side (little bit of everything)
  • the allnic elevates everything but focuses more on clarity, neutrality, resolution, and open space

I’m sure others have heard other cables here if they want to chime in.

For more information, I found this in another forum…

other usb cables w/ impressions

150 ish and below:

Shunyata Venom USB

(impression1) - Now that these can be had at this price, it’s a pretty great deal, generally it is a warmer, thicker, and bassier cable that has a wider and more spacious stage as well, a bit more chill, pretty enjoyable if you want to really focus bass lol

(impression2) - First dive into USB cables and was very pleased. Sorta laid back with very nice bass response. Doesn’t seem to take away from anything but still somewhat smooth. Even if you just want a better bass response, I highly recommend if you are curious of USB capabilities @ $150 price point. A solid upgrade from basic USB

Audioquest Carbon USB

(impression1) - Generally technical with a hint of sweetness, great timbre, nice depth in stage, nice dynamics, although the coloration can be hit or miss depending on the person, nice smoothness too

Nordost Purple Flare USB

(impression1) - Generally a smoother, relaxed, organic, and slightly midrange focused cable. Really nice tonality and timbre, great micro focus, although might be too smooth and chill

Supra USB 2.0

(impression1) - Relaxed highs, a bit intimate, and a bit of a mid-bass boost. Warm and fatigue-free overall. Good starting point for those skeptical about cables.

Supra USB 2.0 Excalibur

(impression1) - Generally a bit brighter but with a delicate touch. Nice stage, detail, and a slight sub-bass boost. Great build and looks nice.

Cardas Clear

(impression1) Compared to a Pangea USB, it sounded a little more lush but there was clearly greater micro detail and micro dynamics in particular with cymbals and bells.

150 to 500 ish:

Triode Wire Labs Discrete USB

(impression1) - Generally a slightly more rich, smooth, and enjoyable cable, more of a micro focus, really organic timbre, tonality, presentation, and dynamics, solid control as well

Curious Evolved USB

(impression1) - Generally a pretty dang balanced and slightly forward cable, strong technical focus, impressive ability overall, reasonably organic as well, although perhaps only a slight bit lifeless but not enough to really hamper things

Mad Scientist Audio Black Magic USB

(impression1) - Generally a pretty lively and exciting cable that’s fairly organic while showing pretty solid technical ability, almost balanced but tilts toward the warmer fun side of things in the end, although it isn’t the most clean sounding

(impression2) - My 2nd dive in USB cables. Compared to the Venom, it does lose a touch of low end bass and some stage width, but everything else is much more detailed and does sound like an upgrade, though not a direct one. This is one of those cables that even though the mids and highs are more forward than the bass, it still remains somewhat organic and fun.

(impression3) - Plugged this in after exclusively listening to 1321>V200>LCD-24 for a couple of days. Immediately noticed blacker background, more depth with more precise imaging that enhances the holographic presence, a bit more forward/engaging presentation, increased impact, and detail took a healthy step forward. All this going from a generic printer style USB A to B cable.

Phasure Lush^3

(impression1) - Generally a pretty organic cable that tends to lean more smooth, great body, warmer bass focused, wide stage, but a little hazy

Take with a grain of salt, of course, but it should at least give you an idea

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I’ve (annoyingly) found USB cables to indeed make a difference. I currently have these:

  • Audioquest Diamond
  • Curious USB
  • Curious Evolved USB

I had bought a Curious USB as one of my earlier cable upgrades, but since I had mostly Audioquest throughout the rest of my chain, I figured I’d buy an AQ Diamond and sell the Curious. Welp. Not happening. Curious just clearly better. I hear more microdetail and better separation with the Curious. It’s particularly obvious in high frequency material (e.g. cymbal shimmer, brushes on snare drums, etc). Of course, that meant I had to see what was up with the Curious Evolved. Just got that in this week, and it is indeed an upgrade (and evolution, if you will) to the Curious.

The differences are subtle, but obvious enough at the same time.

My chain, for reference: NUC-based Roon Core → USB cable → Singxer DDC → BNC cable → M-Scaler → dual BNC cables → Chord DAVE → Utopia (OG)

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Since we’re on this topic, I thought I’d throw in my two cents on power. I have found power products to be some of the biggest upgrades in my system, in particular, the PS Audio Power Plant paired with a high-end power cable. If you told me I could keep ONLY my power products or my DNA Stellaris tube amp, I’d keep the power products (and listen through the DAVE’s amp). The tube amp makes a “bigger difference”, but the clean slate and baseline that exceptional power grants, to me, is irreplaceable. Once I experienced that blackness of background, and as a result, better separation, layering, and ability to perceive microdetails, I could never go back.

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Thanks @hifiDJ for sharing comprehensive impressions of various USB cables, very useful.

@andris, I’m leaning towards Curious (or the Curious Evolved) as well. Actually it was based on your streamer shootout that I have been using the coax out of Zen streamer so far so I haven’t really been using any USB cables but just a cheap Monoprice RCA coax so hoping to notice some difference after upgrading the cable.

Now that’s a bold statement! I have been on the fence about the Power regeneration, partly because I have heard some mixed things and partly because I will be moving in a couple of months to a house so wanted to wait to see what the power situation will be. I remember there was also a PA Audio in the beginning of the year so I’ll keep an eye out.

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Just also an fyi, if you hadn’t considered it before, it’s a great idea to shop for cables in the used market. Sometimes you may find a steal or two. That or have a good relationship with a dealer.

Unfortunately, that is true for me as well. It was another rabbit hole I ended up diving into. I’ll admit that out of all cable tweaks, I had the most fun swapping power cables. lol

Luckily, I found my pc of choice and could not be more satisfied. :electric_plug:

I’ve tried a few power cables straight from the wall and with a regenerator. But since I have crap electricity, almost all the time the improvement was immediate using the regenerator. If you have a dedicated circuit though I can see not really needing a regenerator. So it all depends.

I also swapped around power cables throughout all my components to see where it had the most impact and, generally, I’d go hp amp → power distribution center (if applicable) → anything digital. While the improvements are sometimes subtle (well depends on the cable), once you have all of them replaced it’s pretty much a night and day difference (at least IME). That being said, I wouldn’t ignore the rest of the cables in your chain as it could serve as a bottleneck. It’s not something you realize until you have every kind of cable figured out. It’s been a big learning experience for sure. So it’s all relative and it all adds up. Have fun!

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Ya, I’ve been keeping an eye out, found a couple that looked interesting but still doing some research. There’s too many of them to try!

I had kept the power and power cables for the last as the general conventional wisdom seem to be that the system needs to be transparent/resolving enough for the cables to make an impact, especially power cables. I currently have (what I thought were somewhat carefully chosen, albeit without benchmarking) some decent interconnects but I haven’t upgraded any power cables or any power regeneration.

Have you found that you end up preferring the same type of power cables with all the components or different cables work better for individual components and need to be experimented with? If it’s the latter, that could become a combinatorial explosion.

It’s more fun to research and try out amps and headphones but alas cables and power needs to be tended to as well :man_shrugging:t5:

It really depends. I know it’s not a satisfactory answer but you never really know until you plug it in and experiment. It’s a large part of the hobby anyway, imo.

But if you do want to take a shortcut, I’d suggest trying a cable from a manufacturer whose cable you really like on your system. Then just go with them for the rest of the way. The chances of synergy hitting is much more likely than trying a combination of cables from different manufacturers.

For example, I tried allnic power cables first, really like them, then tried all their other cables (digital and interconnects). I ended up with a pretty banging synergized system after and am very satisfied. Less work and less headache for me.

Or you could just play it by ear and hear what’s lacking with what. Find some impressions (if any) and see how that goes.

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@KaranGovil - I largely have had similar experiences as @hifiDJ. For me, the biggest difference in power cable has been from wall to PowerPlant, but it’s very system dependent. All of my power cables are upgraded, but I spent the most on the one going from wall to Power Plant.

I buy almost all of my cables used, with the exception of when I simply couldn’t find one. I’ve had good experience with Audioquest power cables, and have gone from Thunder to Tornado (all used), but then pulled the trigger on a Common Ground Whisper. When comparing new MSRP price, it is pretty much exactly competitive with an AQ Tornado, but simply knocks the Tornado out of the park in terms of performance. Legitimately, it’s not an incremental step. You won’t find these used, because nobody will give them up. This isn’t to take away from the Tornado, because that cable is exceptional and is way better than a much more basic AQ cable, for example, but Whisper is another level.

The Whisper is made by Duncan Taylor, who produced a fantastic hifi podcast for some time. There is always some risk in terms of future support or availability in buying from a one-man operation, but goodness gracious, this was worth it.

You don’t have to go crazy right away, though. For me, the journey was half the fun. Upgrading piece by piece, and being pumped about the gains along the way, has been super satisfying - and you won’t lose much if you generally go used. If you do decide to go nuts, however (and yes, a $1,500+ power cable is most definitely nuts), I cannot recommend the Whisper enough. It is where I am stopping my power cable journey.

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… Found, (annoyingly) that USB cables do indeed make a difference.

Ditto, but it seems to be directly correlated with cable length. I’ve not found any difference between any of the reasonable quality cables of short or modest length. I’ve used Audioquest Cinnamon, Supra and Pangea for slightly longer - 2M+ cables. And anything made decently for 1M and shorter.

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@KaranGovil I have a few thoughts to add to the other replies.

I find audiobacon.net to be a really good resource because he’s one of the few reviewers to spend the time comparing multiple cables to each other. I’ve enjoyed a couple of different cables that he recommended.

If you’re handy with a soldering iron, making your own cables out of really high quality components will save you a lot of money. And you don’t even need a soldering iron if you make your own power cables.

If you’re not handy (like me), some companies will charge you a fee for building the cable, and you can still save a lot. My interconnects were made by Douglas Connection using OCC copper Furutech wire and connectors. I haven’t used them but Partsconnexion charge $75 to terminate cables.

I tend to avoid buying cables through dealers because there’s a huge markup. I almost always buy direct from boutique companies, who can offer similar quality at a lower price IMO. I like the power cables from Cullen (used by most of my gear), Anticables (currently plugged into my DAC) and Iconoclast (I use their 10awg power cables for my power conditioners). I haven’t used these companies, but Audio Envy and Zavfino get gushing reviews on Audiogon for using OCC copper and OCC silver in their cables whilst still charging budget prices. I’m also considering buying interconnects and/or speaker cable from Anticables because LTA told me they use that brand at conventions like Axpona.

For USB, I use a Black Cat Digit cable. Unfortunately the owner of Black Cat recently passed away so they aren’t available right now, but he put a lot of thought into the design, using twin 45-ohm micro-coaxial cables and separating the power wire from the signal. Whatever USB cable you use, I’d advise using a company that’s transparent about the engineering that went into the cable, who try to explain their designs without mumbo jumbo. I think Curious is a good example of being transparent about their designs.

Because I’m somewhat crazy, even though I loved the Black Cat cable, I was curious about how I could make it better, by removing noise generated by my PC, so I added a JCAT USB card to my PC, then connected the USB cable to a Mutec DDC, which is then connected to my DAC using a Snake River Boomslang spdif cable. The background is inky black and there’s no PC-related crap in the music. I know it would have been cheaper to not use a PC as my source, but unfortunately there’s a lot of music stored on it right now, so there was some logic somewhere in my plan.

I do use a PI2AES streamer too, and connect it to my DAC using a DH Labs Silversonic AES cable.

I think the Snake River spdif is really good, with the DH Labs a step behind in detail/clarity but also a much lower price. I’ve compared them to some other brands and am happy with what I have.

And since I have crappy electricity in my house, I can vouch for the benefits of good power conditioning. I own both a PS Audio PowerPlant 3 and a Core Power Deep Core 1800 and a couple of Equi Core 1000’s. They both work very well, using different technology.

The PSAudio has been relegated to a secondary system because it can only handle 300 watts, whereas then the Core Power can handle 1800 watts. The more powerful Power Plants are really pricey, whereas the Core Power stuff is sold direct by Underwood Hifi, who always seems to have a sale on. But I will say that if you do choose PSAudio, use their excellent trade in policy, because they’ll value whatever you’re trading in at original MSRP, however old it is. I got $750 for an old receiver that I wasn’t using any more.

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Hi there, I don´t know if you only speak about heapdhone cables here, but I am searching for an upgrade OTG cable (lightning to USB-C). 1.2 meters long. For Focal Bathys. Any idea where I would find that?
I did by this one from Aliexpress: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002970831506.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.4.21ef1802rvPNXR
Hope it will work. But I reckon it´s not the best quality hahaha.
Any ideas are welcome! Thanks

A lot of great info here, thanks @hifiDJ, @andris, @pennstac and @PaisleyUnderground.

This is what I’ll most likely end up doing as well, especially with multiple power cables in the system. It’s just the cable space is a bit new to me but this thread has been very useful to get acquainted with some of the boutique makers and other brands. I always try to search for used first as well and only then reach out for new.

This is something I hadn’t considered but I remember looking at the Bottlehead power cable kit for the Crack. Perhaps that might be a good starting point to get my hands dirty on a smaller scale and see how that goes.

I have heard good things about Cullen before but it looks like he has merged with Wyred 4 Sound although I can’t find his cables on their website yet. Perhaps still in progress.

I hear that often, is there a way to measure besides the obvious humming issues? I used to have a lot of humming issues in one of the old places I lived but in my current setup at my apartment, I have pretty black background most time of the day. However, I’ll be moving soon to the burbs and expect problems like this to come up.

That’s a great tip! I only recently heard about this but didn’t know them trading in at original MSRP, pretty cool.

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According to a friend of mine who makes his own cables, power cables are the easiest for a beginner because there’s no soldering. You are just stripping the cable and connecting everything. If you contact VH Audio and tell them that you’re building a power cable for the first time, they should be able to sell you everything you need. If you look at that Audio Bacon link in my previous post, you’ll see that his DIY power cable held it’s own against stiff competition.

The merge is apparently going extremely slowly, but in the meantime Cullen Cables is still a going concern. I don’t know if the merge prohibits him from using his website, but he is still selling brand new cables on US Audio Mart under username cullen05. Even if he doesn’t list the cable you want on US Audio Mart, he can still make whatever you need if you contact him. I had a couple of cables made in June.

The trade in policy is fantastic. There are no strings. I even called them to confirm that they would really take a 20 year old receiver, and they said sure, as long as it’s in working order. The only thing to look out for is that they cap the trade in value, depending on the model you’re buying, e.g. you can only get back $750 if you’re buying a PowerPlant 3, whereas you can get back $2200 if you’re buying a PowerPlant 12. They also disable the trade-in process when a PowerPlant is on sale, so you can’t double dip.

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