DAC Amp Suggestions

Kind folks,
Please help me keep what sanity I have left. I currently run a heresy/modi stack. For the most part, it’s been great. For reference this is connected to my gaming computer on one side of my office. On the other side, I want to setup a listening corner. I could just run a long cable from the existing stack, but where’s the fun in that :wink:?

Headphones are lcd-x or lcd-gx, Elex, 6xx, isine 20 (no cipher, use a Qudelix k5 for eq), DT 990.

I want to experience the tube sound, and the power-up of headphones like the 6xx. However, from the hours of reading, it looks like pure tube is out of the question due to high output impedance and high sensitivity of the Elex and isine. This lead me to hybrids. Initially, the Valhalla 2 appealed to me, but it seems contrary to Schiit’s claims, this doesn’t do well with low impedance hp. Next I researched the Lyr 3, and many here love it, but on other forums folks say this isn’t really a “tube sound” and to grab a JOT/Asgard and grab a darkvoice. I don’t like the idea of a Chinese high voltage/high heat appliance. I’m probably full of ****, but there you have it.

For the DAC, I’m fairly set on a Bifrost 2 in order to never buy another DAC. Unless folks think I should just get a modius to save some green. At some point I may upgrade my speakers (Micca mb42x) and run them through this DAC as well. Right now they run off the modi and a smsl sa 50.

Sound signature I like is warm. I don’t mind highs occasionally, but not Beyerdynamic highs. Soundstage is kinda a toss up; somethings I want intimate, others I want to be in a concert hall.

So Lyr3/BF2? Asgard/Jotunheim/darkvoice? Shut up and just get a micro black label with added portability to replace the Qudelix k5?

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Hey @Morgrim I really dig my LYR3 and Bifrost 2 but it’s not full on tube sound like you said. This can also be a good thing at times for some music and great if you want to use Planar transducers. I don’t think I would say the the LYR 3 is really a warm sound, maybe a touch with the stock tube, but leaning more neutral to my ears. I think you could warm it up more with the tube you choose for it. It’s really a versatile amp with its pre-amp and I opted for the phono stage. The iFi Micro IDSD black label is warmer sounding IMO than the LYR3/BF2 combo (I own both) I will let others chime in to give you their thoughts too.

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Yes to the Bifrost 2.

As for the Lyr 3, yes it’s a hybrid. The Lyr adds tube flavor to a solid state amp, and it might be better to consider it that way instead of thinking about it as a tube amp with solid state guts. OTL amps usually have a more tube-ish sound, for better or worse. The benefit of Lyr 3 is that the sound does change with tube rolling, but is still a far more consistent sound than rolling with OTL amps where larger more dramatic changes can easily swing tone into “WTF is this” territory… again, for better or worse. I hope that all made sense.

It’s not a bad sound by any stretch of the imagination. One of my favorite Schiit amps. It’s just not a purely tube sound.

And here is the condrum. There are so few pure tube amps I recommend under $2000. (None of them are probably great matches for your high sensitivity/low impedance headphones anyway, so…) Here is the list of more budget oriented amps:

SW51+
Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball.
~The End~

Darkvoice… Meh, I wasn’t impressed. Had a veil to the sound that just killed all the joy. There are mods people suggest to fix that; different capacitors, clipping the line out so it doesn’t load the circuit, etc.; but why even mess with it when Crack exists? (Unless you intentionality want to spew veiled crap to otherwise good amplifiers…) Some people claim DV uses the exact same circuit as the Crack, so there should be no difference. That’s kinda true I guess? Sorta? I’m no EE, but if you completely ignore the different resistor and cap values each use, as well as the better transformer used in the Crack, then I guess they could be the same-ish . Bets are off once Speedball enters the picture anyway.

EC ZDTjr. There has been something seriously tonally FKd in the 4 (yes, 4…) Jr’s I’ve heard. SW51+ demolished this amp in sound quality. Some production units also had bad shielding / transformer hum issues. This is just a hard pass in my book.

Valhalla. It’s good for HD650, but you’re correct. Probably not great with everything else. It’s also not the tubey-warm sound people expect. Also, the tubes rolling options are meh at best.

So, what else is there?

Tuba. Haven’t heard it.

Woo WA6. Sure, if it were $200 to $400, then maybe, and probably not for anything with high sensitivity/low impedance.

Cayin HA-1A MK 2. I understand the mk2 is good-ish. I think the version I heard long ago was different. Thus, no comment. Some people around here have this, I think, maybe they can chime in.

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What @ProfFalkin and @MRHifiReviews said. I use BF2/Lyr3 also. One advantage of the Lyr3 is that it has ONE tube. If you get curious and want to try tube rolling, well it’s not that expensive. I have a few tubes that I tried, and I stopped on #4. Several people, including me, would probably let you try out some of their experiments.

Tubes are a rabbit hole. Tubes are seductive, like ladies of leisure. Just because you try one, doesn’t mean you ought to try all of them, or experiment with ill-advised combinations.

The Lyr3 is hintwater compared to the full tube fruitstands in the downtown markets in Santos, Brazil. Hintwater is nice, you could go crazy on unknown and forbidden fruits. And find that your pocket was picked in the bargain.

I’m running out of similies. I’ll go toddling off now.

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@MRHifiReviews thanks for the input! I’ll leave the BL for a future purchase I think. I keep squirrel-ing into different use cases when I need to focus on my “listening corner”. It wasn’t fair of me to compare them, but the BL gets such high praise I started to question what it is that I’m chasing and maybe BL is good enough. See? I’m doing it again lol.

@ProfFalkin thank you for the great input. Those were exactly the amps that kept popping up on my radar. The consensus seems to encourage the lyr 3 for an intro to tubes. Whole reason I’m not just running off the heresy is I wanted something different and more ‘alive’. What I call alive seems to translate into warm with great detail.

@pennstac That made me laugh considerably harder than it should have. I greatly appreciate the offer for the tubes too! What 4 did you try and how did they differ from stock? The tung upgrade is no longer available on the lyr.

Off-topic: the entrepreneur in me really can’t fathom why there isn’t a retail store, with a competitive online presence, in Dallas. I would 100% visit to audition/buy this stuff. I’m only half-kidding when I say I’m considering it. Anyway…I digress.

I think I’m sold on the lyr 3/bf combo, but if anyone else has input, please feel free to add to my conundrum lol.

Truly, thank you all. You keep this community awesome.

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I have a Bifrost 2 DAC, Lyr 3 (hybrid), Asgard 3 (solid state) and Pendant (tube), and since I was trying out JRiver, Audirvana and Roon anyway, I thought I’d switch between the amps. I was using a Focal Stellia for the session. I did most my listening on the Asgard 3 and Lyr 3.

The A3 is warmer than the L3, although it could be that the tube I’m using (Psvane Treasure Globe, which is one of the tubes @pennstac has) doesn’t have a warm sound. The A3 sounds amazing with synth music (Fade To Grey by Visage, Are Friends Electric by Gary Numan), shoegaze (Machine Gun by Slowdive) and atmospheric metal (Jeg Er Guden, I Er Tjenerne by Myrkur, who is best described as Enya singing metal), where you’re just enveloped by the layers of music. It also sounds wonderful with vocals (Sound of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel, Don’t Know Why by Norah Jones, Lose Me You To Love Me by Selena Gomez, Down To The River To Pray from the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack). Definitely a fun amp, and a bargain. I bought this for my son for Christmas, but I like it enough that I think I’ll order one for myself.

The L3 sounds more neutral than the A3, but it adds clarity, resolution and texture, for instance when listening to the vocal tracks mentioned above, you can better pinpoint the instruments and vocalists. The L3 also sounds ‘faster’, so when you’re listening to post-punk/alternative songs with danceable bass lines (At Home He’s A Tourist by Gang Of Four, Psycho Killer by Talking Heads, Debaser by The Pixies), you get a much better sense of rhythm. The L3 has a larger soundstage than the A3, so even though you lose a little of the A3’s warm presence on shoegaze/atmospheric music, the L3 makes up for it by sounding bigger, in addition to giving you a little more clarity of all the things going on around you.

I tried all the above tracks on the Pendant amp, using vintage tubes, and at the risk of oversimplifying, the Pendant was the best of both worlds. It sounds a little warmer than the L3 but has even more clarity and soundstage than the L3.

All 3 are great amps. The Pendant is my favorite, but it is also by far the most expensive. I’ve also been switching between the A3 and L3, depending on my mood - after all, sometimes you’re just not in the mood to hear every damn thing that’s in the recording, and you just want to enjoy the music, and the A3 is perfect for that.

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:flushed::thinking::joy: 20 characters…

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@PaisleyUnderground That’s a great comparison and I do love me some detail and expanded soundstage. Audeze is a bit warmer as well, so hopefully that synergizes well.

@pennstac @MRHifiReviews which tube is the busty green-eyed redhead, with the fiery Irish attitude?? :crazy_face::joy:

I think I’m set folks. Placing an order for the Lyr 3, BF2, and their pyst rca/usb cables. Now I just have to find a streaming solution for the raspberry pi or iPad. Evidently, Plexamp doesn’t support remote play on latest beta :man_shrugging:

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I’m using the Treasure Globe, which lends detail, imaging and space. I started with the Tungsol upgrade, which is a fine tube, nothing wrong with it. Similar - perhaps a little more detailed, is an RCA 5692 NOS. Finally, is a Philco branded but genuine Sylvania Bad Boy. (Manufactures did sell to each other and rebrand). That one was not as subtle a difference, opening up, and seeming more live. It would be the Irish Redhead Milf tube of the bunch. I think @ValentineLuke has a gorgeous blue tube in his. If you plan on rolling tubes, consider getting a tube socket. The Lyr3 makes tubes sit in pretty low. Not only will you save wear, they look prettier with a bit more height.

I’d be happy to let you try any of the 3 above, and would part with any but the RCA for what I paid for them. I live in Lancaster, PA, not far from an RCA tube factory. I like to fancy that it might have been made locally.

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Currently out of stock, but these are well built, and made in the USA.

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I have the same socket saver and highly recommend it. These are essential for Lyr 3 owners - as @pennstac said, they make it much easier to change tubes in that tiny hole, they allow you to get larger tubes (like the Treasure Globe) that may not fit in the hole, and most important, the tubes do look much prettier when raised. The Treasure Globe and the Sophia Blue that @ValentineLuke has are the 2 prettiest 6SN7 tubes I’ve seen on the Lyr.

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That’s a great tip. I’ll pick one up when they’re back in-stock. Or look for an alternative…

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That treasure globe looks beautiful, I think I’d want one long term. On the Elex thread folks are saying (at least I understand them to be saying) the hp would benefit from some warmth and taming of the top end. I see quite a bit of tube rolling in my future :wink:. Thank you for all the info and the offer to test out those tubes!

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They look nice, but if you are looking for a tube glow esthetic, they are not the brightest as the heaters are mostly shielded. Also, they are not the warmest, but to my ears they gave the best “air” or special rendering, and soundstage.

Note that with the Lyr3, changes with tube rolling do not hit you over they head. They are clearly there, but it’s not like changing from a Prius hybrid to an Infiniti hybrid. (Vehicles).

Try a while with the stock tube, and see some of the other choices also, especially if you are looking for more warmth.

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If it hasn’t been said already remember that new tubes change over the first 50-100 hours of use.

Some people listen right away so they can track the changes. Others do the break-in without listening to avoid a false first impression.

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@pennstac @NickZ thanks for the advice. I did indeed come across several threads advising break in periods. I’ll take it slow and deliberate.

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Commendable roundup. I wish he included BorderPatrol. Is anyone able to offer impressions/comparisons of BorderPatrol?

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If you want to try out some higher end gear, Audio concepts off preston and forest has some stuff that you can audition. I believe they’re doing appointments so you can have the room to yourself. They have a nice little setup but generally have the bigger names like Focal, Audeze, Sennheiser, etc.

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Thanks for the heads up! I’ll give them a call today to see what they have.

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Has anyone paired LCD-2 with the Schiit Bifrost/Jotunheim? My fear is this combo might make it a bit thick and slow-sounding. I’m definitely going for a slightly-warm tilted but mostly neutral sound with good detail and soundstage.