DAPs, do you use them?

If I didn’t have an obvious, personal, need for a DAP I wouldn’t try and find a way to justify having one.

I like my iPhone as a multi-purpose “80% solution” for convenience and flexibility; this is true for music, the camera, GPS functionality (not just in the car), personal metrics and so on.

For music, with either Bluetooth TWS IEMs or the Apple Lighting to 3.5mm dongle, it’s good enough for non-critical listening in most cases. Especially as if I’m using it for music, I’m likely in an environment where there is enough noise (or distractions) that “critical” listening isn’t possible in the first place.

To go beyond non-critical listening, I’m either limited to IEMs, due to the lack of power from the dongle, or I have to carry a 2nd device, and additional cables/adapters, anyway.

If want to listen to full-size headphones of any note, which I often do, even when not at one of my fixed rigs, the smaller external DAC/amps, like the DragonFly units, or the NextDrive Spectra, don’t cut it (either in terms of power or quality). So, now I’d be carrying a “2nd device” that’s as big as a DAP and a lot less convenient if it has to be connected to my phone (think iFi Nano or Micro iDSD BL units, Chord Mojo, etc.).

That can be for something as simple as listening on the deck on a nice day. Or for extended listening when I travel on my own, either for work or pleasure.

Right there, a DAP makes more sense for me. It’s all in one. It’s only cable is to the headphones. It’ll easily drive any headphone I’m ever likely to want to listen to away from my main rig. Qualitatively its a big enough setup forward that it is immediately obvious. It has far more storage than I can get on a phone (1.5 TB on one TAP, and more than 1 TB on the other) and which isn’t shared between tasks.

Yes, some will argue that I can put microSD cards in a phone. But that means Android, which is a whole different set of issues, and something I am not interested in.

Having useable EQ is nice to have - which is a mess on phones. To be fair, it could be better on DAPs too, but it is still better than the phone options I’m aware of (even if I was willing to run Android there).

I do enough dedicated listening (i.e. focused on the music, not just background listening while doing something else), in situations where I want real headphones, that a DAP makes sense … and even then it probably sees 20% of the listening time I get on my phone. It’s just that I can easily hear, and definitely care, about things that the phone doesn’t match for that 20%.

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I mostly use a THX Razer DAC dongle, iFi iEmatch and CA Andromeda Golds for my 80% on the go listening. But when I want quality “mobile” solution I use my N6ii and either Focal Elegia or my ZMFs (depending on environment) there is something about sitting outside (ask @Torq about his deck listening) or sitting in a coffee shop with a quality audio chain! Or even for me being able to wander around the house with my preferred headphone.

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I just got done installing an iflash board into an old iPod Video 5th gen, and while I’m waiting for my library to sync, I was wondering if anyone else on here regularly uses an iPod classic, whether it be a 5th gen, 5.5g, etc…

Though I don’t necessarily have a huge need for a DAP, there’s something “charming”(?) about older hardware like this. And since I swapped the 30 GB hdd with a 128 GB SD card, I can just dump my entire library onto it. The “neat” levels are pretty high imo.

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Never used the big iPod but I have a half dozen of the smaller ones scattered about and was wondering if I should pull them out and see if I can get them updated and see what condition the software is in. I’m always scared to plug them into my laptop because they each have tons of music on them and last time I plugged one in iTunes deleted ALL my NON-apple, non-paid to apple music, off both units :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: That infuriated me and was the last time I ever plugged one of my iPods back in. Goodness has to be at least 8 years since then…

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Yeah, I’m not too happy about how they handle music if you don’t have the library anymore.

I’d also be careful about plugging the nano’s in because the batteries can start expanding and there is generally no good way to replace them.

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Mine’s still going strong, more or less (I posted about it here a while back). I daren’t sync it with my iTunes account for the same fear of losing music. The real shame is the battery, which doesn’t last long enough to make my iPod a portable solution for commuting.

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If it’s an older, bigger one, battery replacement is very cheap and easy.

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Thank you! I hadn’t realized. Mine’s the fifth generation of the classic - some initial google sleuthing would seem to indicate I could do it without too much difficulty!

Oh yeah! I took two junk 5th gens recently and made one working one out of them with a new battery and a flash board in place of the hdd.

Battery was like $10.

Just need patience and a tutorial and you can bring it back to new. They’re not hard to work on at all.

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I’d just assumed the batteries would be obsolete these days, so this is great news. From the youtube videos out there, it seems as though I might manage to swap out the batteries in spite of my ham-fisted ways. Is there a battery (or vendor) you’d recommend?

This is the one that I bought, but it looks like it’s out of stock right now.

I don’t think you can go wrong though if it has good reviews.

If you want to go down the rabbit hole, you can get bigger batteries and other modifications.

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Thank you very much - I really appreciate the recommendation. I’ll give this some thought. I might see if it’s possible to add storage space… yes, I can see how this might become a rabbit hole!

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My Sony DAP has a “beyerdynamic, Grado” 2k spike setting :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

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I owe great thanks to you @Panzer_Applehusky for the excellent advice you offered way back in May. We were posting above about my 15-yr-old iPod classic (5th gen) and its dying battery. You suggested that I replace the battery myself and you kindly recommended a replacement battery. Well, I’m delighted to let you know that I finally plucked up the courage to do it.

I’d procrastinated as I’m not all that good with electronics or confident about doing things like this. I finally decided that there wasn’t much point in holding on to iPod if I didn’t use it, so I figured it was worth the risk of attempting surgery. I’m happy to report that the patient made a full and fast recovery and that I’m now enjoying music again with the iPod without being limited just to an hour’s use at a time.

I’ve got a soft spot for this old device. It was my first ever mp3 player - I was late to the iPod party thanks to grad school pennilessness - and I’ve long cherished it. It’s given me a great deal of pleasure over the years, and I’m tremendously grateful to you for giving it a new lease on life. Thank you!

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Awesome! Glad to hear it went well.

May it sing to you for many more years.

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Hiby R3? R3 Pro? Those aren’t very expensive, I don’t think.

Well, after tons of (costly) bouncing from portable to desktop using DAP amped (and yes, including that whole tube rolling stuff–which I’ve leaned tons from BTW) I’ve decided the portability of my DAP is important. With my desktop setup, I’m confined. Plus SQ (I use lossless, balanced, and decent cans) is so good these days…

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This is an interesting topic for me, as I have been considering a Dap. I have had the iFi IDSD micro black label and loved it for portable use but it requires me to be plugged into my phone by a apple cable that eventually always seems to go bad. In addition it’s pretty bulky for on the go. With a pair of very portable lightweight Focal closed back headphones in coming, I will now have the ability to listen on the go, or even in my backyard relaxing. The Dap becomes a serious thought for me. I am very intrigued by the DAP that also allows for Roon streaming as well. For those of you DAP masters any thoughts, lessons learned, or features you think are must haves for a DAP? @Torq @TylersEclectic or any other DAP masters 🥷

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If you find a Pioneer XDP 300R it could be great for your purposes. Old DAP that can be found for very good price and with great features. Check @antdroid for detailed infos

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I still use DAPs, with an increasingly specific set of requirements.

If I am going to use a phone (i.e. the situation doesn’t warrant/allow carrying a DAP and suitable IEMs or headphones), then it’s either going to be fully wireless Bluetooth, via a $9 dongle (one stuffed in every IEM and headphone case I might use on the go) or in rare cases the Lotoo PAW S1.

And the chances are I’m using lossy content from Apple Music in that case, as the 3rd party streaming options are all too fond of deciding they need an internet connection to validate my offline content right at the moment I don’t have one.

None of the Android-phone-as-a-DAP solutions are even on the table for me. Most of them are stuck with Android’s rather lacking forced ASRC (resampling to some multiple of 48kHz, using a low-power optimized filter rather than a quality-optimized one).

While you can get around this with some phones using UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro), it will sometimes tell you it’s working bit-perfectly when it isn’t (an acknowledged issue by the developer - it’s doing the best it can given the abstractions and limits of Android). And I do not like the UX there at all.

This is notwithstanding other issues I have with Android-phones-as-DAPs which usually includes piss-poor AAC support, lowest-spec-without-fucking-around-and-then-not-very-reliable LDAC support, and comparatively atrocious battery life.


So for proper, focused, listening for please/critical listening … i.e. when I’m not just using having music “on in the background”, I still use a DAP. And as I said, my requirements have become more focused over time.

As much as I love various aspects of the Cayin N8, it’s inability to stream natively has become a MAJOR inconvenience. Exacerbated by the fact that you cannot use it as an external DAC/amp from an iPhone unless you use Bluetooth (as the N8 requires power on USB in USB DAC mode, and draws more than an iOS device will allow). And if I’m going to use Bluetooth at all, I’m not carrying a big, heavy, DAP around!

So now, requirements must include:

  • Support for at least 1.5TB of on-board storage (so 512GB internal, and a slot that can run 1TB cards, or multiple card slots).

  • Proper meta-data driven UX that can address both internal and card storage seamlessly.

  • Native streaming support (this usually means an Android “core” OS) for TIDAL and Qobuz.

  • 100% bypass of Android’s audio subsystem in ALL situations (some DAPs bypass it for their “default” music players, but not for third-party streaming clients).

  • 100% silent background with all of my IEMs.

  • Enough power to drive reasonably sensitive full-size cans directly.

  • 10 hours of battery life with IEMs and lossless content.

  • Fast charge capability.

  • WiFi connectivity that doesn’t shit the bed if you’re more than 20 feet from your AP.

  • Proper balanced output.

  • USB DAC/amp support.

There are lots of other nice-to-have features (e.g. Roon end-point support, no-power mode for USB DAC/amp operation from an iPhone, proper MFI support, longer battery life, multiple output modes, decent integrated EQ) and so on.

Right now, only the A&K SP2000 fully meets the requirements that I’m aware of, as well as hitting some of the optional stuff.

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