Focal Clear Open-back Headphones - Official Thread

I think that statement is a pretty strong statement and needs some backing up as to why our friend SleepyRhythms believes this.

I am not looking to state this is incorrect or in error…its just I would think there would be a random number of folks choosing the Lyr 3 etc…after all dont we all hear differently?

Alex
:grinning:

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I agree with this and yes some folks love this amp with Focals with less than the 100 ohm impedance and are very happy, which is great…

But the fact is that 100 ohms is there good or bad and the amp is indeed a transformerless amp.

and so are Schiits Vahalla 2 and the Bottlehead Crack, both stellar amps, the Crack has stated 120 ohm end point and the Vahalla 2 has been re-designed from the original Vahalla to work better with lower impedance headphones, but even Schiit states:

In simpler numbers: 2-8x lower output impedance, 8x lower distortion, 2x more current delivery, and lower noise. In simpler terms: while Valhalla was marginal-to-bad with IEMs and low-impedance headphones, Valhalla 2 is better. It’s not the be-all and end-all, but it’s now a much more well-rounded amp."

and

"Valhalla is still going to be at its best with high-impedance headphones like the 300 ohm Sennheisers and 250-600 ohm Beyers. With up to 60V p-p output capability, it can light up high-impedance headphones. "

The message here is OTL and non-OTL amps are different with differing design points and are optimized for certain loads.

Alex

Update from Upscale Audio about the Clears with the Euphoria:

“You’ll see a bit of bass boost with the Clears through the Euforia due to the impedance swings.”

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Yep, yep, yep. I think many want to know if the Echo as an OTL amp will take the edge off the neutral-bright Focal line or turn them into expensive Beats copies. Curiosity killed the audiophile.

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I have only one set of high impedance headphones they are the HD600’s sold all my other TOTL cans in that area…and have kept one nice OTL amp just for them its the BH Crack, which when I use it with 50 ohms cans it sucks big time for me…and again YMMV…just not that controlled etc…

And even when I had say the BH Mainline the high Z cans worked very well but that euphonic sound with the BH Crack was missing on these expensive non otl amps for me…

Alex

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But its RED!!!

LOL!!

Alex

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This brilliant title by @dbstechtalk is in line with my recent experience with that redhead…

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It’s worth noting that there are two stated figures for the impedance of Focal’s open back headphones: 80 ohms for the Elear, Elex, and Utopia; and 55 ohms for the Clear. The Clear are extraordinary, then (but we Clear fans already knew this :smile:)!

I’ve not heard any Feliks Audio amps yet - much as I’d like to - but to add one data point, I’ve found that the low-impedance output of my Massdrop Eddie Current ZDT Jr (32–100 ohms) provides a pleasant but significant degree of bass bloom to my Clear. With certain kinds of music, moods, or personal preferences, I could see this working for people. Out of the high-impedance output (100–600 ohms, according to the specs), that bass bloom becomes far more pronounced, to the point where it fundamentally changes the character of the Clear (again, no comment here about divergent personal preferences, to each their own). I’d rather just get a bassier headphone (the Clear sounds much more like my tubbier and thumpier Fostex TH-X00 Ebony out of the high-impedance out). For reference, my current amp for the Clear is the Drop CTH.

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There’s also the Stellia at 35 ohms, but those are closed back.
(Clear fan right here. :raising_hand_man:t4:)

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Yes, likewise the Radiance and the Elegia. Presumably all are designed for use with DAPs (as are the Clear).

Given the above discussion about pairings with tube amps, I wonder how the Cayin N3Pro DAP would fare with the Clear (or the other, high end Cayin tubey DAP).

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I use my Clear with the Schiit Lyr and Rupert Neve Designs RNHP, and both provide good results to my ears.

The Cayin would be interesting to hear.

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There’s a b-stock Lyr 3 winking at me on Schiit’s website - I’ve seen you and @lost33 endorse the pairing!

Separately, I’d be interested in seeing how the Clear sounds out of a ZMF Pendant… has anyone tried this combination? I ask because I enjoy daydreaming about a happy future with a Vérité in it; I loved the pairing with the Pendant at CanJam, and it would be sweet if the Clear were to be synergistic with this amp, as well (the ZMF high and low-z outputs are 8 and 300 ohms).

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I have a b stock lyr 3 and havent looked back or resented the purchase in any way…works great with the Clears…

Highly recommended…

Alex

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This may be useful. Focal Clear impedance curve. Like the Utopia, the midbass bumps up a bit with more output impedance from the source. I also noticed this with the Elex when I owned it so I’m assuming it’s the same with the Elear and if I recall, the Elegia as well. (https://headphonetestlab.co.uk/test-results-manufacturers-e-h-focal-elegia)

So the higher impedance tube amp will give a bit more a bass bump, if you want that.

Btw, my experience with Elex from using a higher impedance tube amp was defnitely a warmer sound, and loss of soundstage and perhaps not as clean bass. That’s from a while ago, so my memory should be taken with a big grain of salt.

I have not tried Clear on an OTL or higher impedanec source. I do have a Feliks Elise though, so if anyone wants to donate me a Clear… :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

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LOL, these are fascinating posts about OTLs, and I hope you continue because I’m learning a lot, but the OP, @darrellharwood, actually asked how the Focal Arche compares to a BF2/Lyr3 combo for his Clear.

I’m also interested in the answer to that question so I’ll re-ask in the Arche thread so that you can continue with this discussion here.

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yeah u have to have both to compare…but most of dont have the Arche…its a higher cost SS amp.

My guess would be they would be similar. but Focal does state they have some “magic” tailored to their headphones. Probalby some custom eq bulit in or selectable?

Alex

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Going to start off wishing @darrellharwood and @PaisleyUnderground the best of luck looking for a nice amp since they’re looking in the Arche price range. There are a ton of great choices like the Pendant, Euforia, Elise, Starlett, etc. Headphones.com has an open box Arche for 40% off if you’re interested.

Lyr 3 is undeniably a more flexible amp playing well with anything you can plug into it. I find it to be a wonderfully relaxing listen. Schiit has always had great performance out of their class A/B amps going for a pleasantly warm, full bodied presentation. Anyone getting into OTLs knows they’re primary goal is to use dynamic driver headphones. To me the Echo was more dynamic from top to bottom.

Focal’s factory tour includes demos with some of the amps they bring to shows. The Euforia is included among them, and Zach from ZMF checks his tuning on one of those I believe. Echo is the warmest amp out of the Feliks line, but it still leans into quality over quantity for its sound. Most reviews will tell you this is by no means a good choice for lovers of bombastic bass. It gives a gentle lift at most.

This is not a 100+ OI amp that will blow the tonal balance out the window. I think it’s around 40-50, so it’s not going to sound overly bloated. The Clears benefit from a little more weight in their sound as I consider them more on the lean side. @lost33 Was listening to Shape of My Heart (My Songs Version) by sting and I Know You By Heart by Eva Cassidy in the album Songbird just now. It wasn’t too much bass but they do get a little kick in energy. The instruments glided throughout those songs slightly thicker than on the Lyr. People growing accustomed to the Clear in stock sound or especially the Elex might become bass sensitive. If you think either of these headphones have ample bass response already, then I could see it being a bit much. Imo they could use a little color, and the Echo is wonderfully natural sounding. Keep in mind my preferences lean warm as I chose the Atticus out of all the ZMFs. We all hear different so find your own truth. This is simply what I like. The magic of a great OTL is very real though, and both Focals mentioned are great on this one. Relagoor told me his 35 ohm Elegia was fine comparing his Echo to the Phonitor as well. Again, all Feliks amps are going for moderate appeal making major bloat a small concern. Their real magic is in the mids and silky smooth treble. Room acoustics light up getting you closer to a speaker like experience. It’s heavenly on high Z headphones and these Focals. Maybe the Stellia might suffer bloat.

I’m a big Schiit fanboy like some here owning the Asgard 3 + MM card, Modius, Lyr 3, and Bifrost 2. They’re great.

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Thanks, this was very helpful. I love it when people put a lot of thought into their descriptions, to give people enough context to make a decision.

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I am not a tube amp expert but it seems like there is more than just output impedance going on. If I’ve got this wrong then delete this post before it spreads too far. :slight_smile: It’s entirely possible I am equating resistance with impedance when I shouldn’t be.

Garage1217 has two otl tube amps, Starlight and Horizon, with select-able output resistance. They are supposed to be essentially the same design but the Starlight intended for low impedance headphones and the Horizon for high impedance headphones.

Both offer an output resistance setting of 1 ohm but the power output at this setting is quite different into different headphone impedance’s. I have linked the charts below.

I know you can’t reduce everything to just output power but one might think that at the same output resistance they would have a similar power curve, if all that mattered was output resistance.

All this is to say it seems like some amp designs could be more ‘friendly’ to impedance mismatches than others.

Sunrise power curve

Horizon power curve

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All of this is putting me in a conundrum. I’m very happy with the Clear on cheap sources or no external amp – it doesn’t need much power to sound very good. The only amp I deeply dislike with the Clear is the THX AAA 789 (see my comments above; too abrupt and edgy).

The cheap $99 Loxjie P20 (47 ohm OI) with replacement triple mica tubes and a stronger power supply produces Clear output that resembles how others describe the Lyr 3 and the Echo. But, $150 total cost vs. $500 or $700 total cost? Can it compete? The P20 mildly boosts the bass but it’s not at all noticeable with most sources. Sources that previously pumped the mid-bass do get thick and bloomy, but they comprise less than 5% of the music I’ve tried. Sources with strong deep bass/sub-bass don’t seem to have the ability to cause deep bass bloat.

Spend the money on a room-warming amp with questionable ROI or spend it on tasty food?

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I hear you on this.

My current conundrum is I’m having a hard time figuring out how much weight to place on reviews that are not double-blind. I just think it’s impossible to overcome bias/expectations no matter how much we want to or try to.

It has me in a total spending freeze until I sort this out. The only thing I bought recently was spare tubes for the Drop CTH in case the original craps out.

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