What’s the most tube sounding tube amp to go with 300 ohm ZMF / Sennheisers? I want to try out some of the older terribly recorded punk rock I use to listen to, with distorted guitars and stuff, on a very tube sounding amp. Is it something like a Bottlehead Crack without speedball, anything else?
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Feliks Echo is another option
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Hello good people… I’m looking for some guidance, and hoping to get some help from the community.
Currently, I own the Hifiman Sundara, Focal Elegia and Moondrop Kato, driven by a Modius/Magnius stack. To be clear, I love my current gear (a few of you may have seen me raving about the Moondrop Kato, which I bought recently), but the wife has recently been bringing up the conversation, not so subtly hinting that she’s trying to figure out what headphones to gift me and I’m really struggling to give an answer.
I’ve been looking at the Clear OG, Clear MG, Ananda, Arya, LCD-2C and LCD-X, but I can’t for the life of me decide which direction I want to move in sound-wise. I THINK I want to go warmer with Audeze (I’m going by what I’ve read here. I have yet to hear any Audeze cans for myself), just to get a different sound. But then I think about how much I really love the Sundara sound, which I upgraded from the HE400se, to see if they lived up to the hype (they did). Then I also think about how much I really love the sound of the Elegia’s. I just really prefer open-backs. Both with Dekoni sheepskin pads.
Anywho…
To wrap up this long-winded post (question(s)?), I’d like some thoughts on how I should be going about this. Do I go with an upgrade to either the Hifiman or Focal sound and if that’s the way to go, which of these are recommended as far as value/cost. Are the more expensive variants THAT much better, or just… different? Which of the ones mentioned do you prefer and why? Do I go in a fully different direction and add a third sound sig with the Audeze’s, and the same value/cost question and why one over the other for those as well.
The other option is to pick one from each (Audeze, Focal, Hifiman) and let her surprise me with her decision. But even then the same questions apply (value/cost).
OR… I’m open to other suggestions, up to maybe about $1500. Closer to $500+ would be my preference though (not that my own choices even hit that mark).
Apologies in advance for the goofy question, but I’ve really been struggling with this and really hoping that some of you can weigh-in or tell me I’m an idiot and to go away.
Thanks!
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I can vouch for the Clear MG and found it an all-around winner - great immediacy, detail and slam. I know this community has a thing for the Clear OG, though.
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It’s hard to give you a good answer without more details. Are your three current headphones the only ones you’ve heard? If not, what else have you listened to, and did you like or dislike it? What kinds of music do you like? The answers to these questions may help you figure out what you’re looking for.
Are you still at a stage in the hobby where you’re exploring and trying to figure out what your preferences are? It sounds as though that’s the case, given that you don’t seem to have heard warmer headphones. It can be good to try out a variety of sound signatures but if you’re experimenting, I always recommend that people buy used headphones so that they can sell them again with less risk of loss if they don’t get along with them.
If you’d like to try something warmer, check out the Clear Mg or the LCD-2 Classic (wait, by “LCD-2C” are you referring to the Classic or the Closed?). I have the LCD-2 Classic and love it for its darker signature, which makes for a more forgiving listen to (often poorly recorded) alternative rock made since the 90s. Electric guitars sound great from it - lots of growl and rumble and crunch. The LCD-2 Classic is also great for electronic music, given its nice bass response. The problem with the LCD2-Classic (I never know where to put the hyphen) is that it needs the right kind of amp, one that’s got a lot of power on tap and that is slightly warm. For my preferences, I’d go with the Jot 2 with it. I’m not sure if the Magnius would be ideal. You should also check out the Reveal plugin for it; it’s a kind of preset EQ profile for tuning the headphones, one provided by Audeze.
The LCD-X comes in different flavors, I believe, with the 2021 version being brighter. The very latest Audezes, I gather, have moved away from the older, darker/warmer tunings. The 2021 LCD-X has been widely praised; I’ve not heard it.
I didn’t get along with the Clear Mg but that’s simply a matter of preference, and it could be just the ticket for you.
I have the original Clear. It’s a great headphone, quite neutral, with a bit of low-end warmth but also an ever so slightly hard, crystalline treble. The Magnius may not be a good pairing here; the THX 789 amp, which I understand isn’t so different from your Magnius, pairs poorly with the original Clear as @generic will attest. The og Clear has a slightly richer, weightier, fuller sound than your Elegia (from memory, which could well be flawed), and it’s also a lot faster and more resolving than the Elegia. In other words, it’s a good upgrade over the Elegia but it doesn’t offer a vastly different, contrasting sound, if that’s what you’re looking for.
The Ananda and Arya are fairly neutral headphones but I find their treble to be a bit too emphasized for my preferences. I’ve not heard the Sundara so I can’t offer you a comparison but I suspect @Resolve and some of the others here may have compared them.
Ok, with all that said, if you’re interested in a warmer headphone, you might also consider one of the ZMF Headphones, in particular the Aeolus or the Atticus, both of which are warmer. The Eikon might also work although it has a different signature to the Atticus (these two are closed backs). I’d encourage you to read up about the Aeolus, it might offer something meaningfully different in sound from what you’ve currently got, and they’re beautiful, hand-made, high-quality headphones. There’s a downside here, though: you might do well by pairing ZMF Headphones with tube or tube-hybrid amps rather than your Magnius (I’m guessing here, I’ve not heard your amp). The Schiit Vali 2+ could make for a great, affordable starting place if you’re willing to go down this road. The upside to getting a ZMF headphone is that their re-sale value is typically pretty high. It take a few weeks for them to arrive, though, as they’re handmade. If you need a gift in the next couple of weeks, you might have to look elsewhere.
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First, thanks for the questions/response. I had a feeling these questions would surface. I was mostly trying to keep my post from getting too long, which I failed at anyway.
As for what I’ve heard… I previously owned the Sennheiser HD595 (where I was sort of introduced to “better headphones”, way back when), HD800 (didn’t keep them long), HD700, Momentum 2 which I passed on to my oldest son (both the 595’s and 700’s were passed on to my mother), Meze 99, Sivga Robin (SV021) and Hifiman HE400se (my intro to planars). Strangely (or not), I didn’t really dislike any of them, with the exception of maybe the HD800’s… which is interesting, since I really liked the HD700’s, as polarizing as they were/are. I liked each of them for different reasons and my listening habits are somewhat based on mood. But the warmest headphones that I can say I’ve heard would probably be the Meze’s and the Momentum’s. I really liked the Meze 99’s. Wasn’t a fan of the cable situation, so I returned them.
For music, I’m all over the place, but primarily Jazz, Hip-Hop, a touch of R&B, Electronic(a), House, a hint of Rock, Alternative and rarely Pop, Classical and Sountracks.
Like I said, all over the place.
Basically, I like well controlled slam-y/punchy bass, I like my detail without sibilance and a nice neutral or somewhat forward midrange. Soundstage, i’m not terribly particular about, unless I’m in my Classical/Soundtrack listening headspace and sometimes Jazz as well, but usually it’s the last thing I consider. I really just like to enjoy the music, unless I’m working on my own music.
I’m ok with EQ’ing and changing pads, but not before I get used to and decide that I like the stock sound. I may get a tube at some point, but I’m completely fine with my amp/DAC stack for now. I just “upgraded” from the Magni (Heresy)/Modi 3 stack (also passed on to my mother) to the Magnius/Modius, and don’t plan on moving on from that unless I need to. At least not until I see something beautiful enough to make me fall in love 
.
I hope this properly answers some of your questions. And again, thanks for your questions and suggestions. It’s much appreciated.
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Thank you, that helps! Before getting to my response, i just wanted to mention that it’s cool to see the shared family love of headphones - I thought it was awesome that your wife’s hinting at getting you a headphones gift and that your mother and son now have some of your former gear!
I can see how you might have a hard time picking a pair of headphones given the range of music you like. I likewise have a collection of headphones that I pick for different genres of music and mood; I don’t think I could ever settle down to life with a single pair of headphones.
The Clear Mg could well be a good option for you. I could see it playing nicely with Jazz, Hip-Hop, R&B, and Electronic(a). It’s fast, has nice resolution, and a good bit of warmth.
I’m not sure the LCD-2 Classic would be as versatile. I’m not fond of it for Jazz; it’ll do a decent job with Electronic(a), House, Rock and Alternative. But I’m not sure it’s all that good for vocals, and there are recessions/unevenness in the midrange you should beware of.
I still think you’d be very well served by ZMF Headphones and, in particular, the Aeolus and perhaps the Atticus. They’ll give you plenty of nice warmth and that punchy, well controlled bass. I don’t think you’d need to worry about sibilance with them (the Eikon, I gather, has more sub-bass than the Atticus but it may be a bit hotter in the treble - you should check out the impressions to see if I’m getting that right or not). One of the things I like about ZMF headphones is that the bass isn’t just nice and rich but it’s also pretty detailed, resolving, and has lovely texture, especially with double basses and other acoustic instruments. The Aeolus may not have the speed you’d want for House or Electronic(a), in which case the Clear Mg might serve you better.
Another option are the closed-back Foster bio-cellulose driver headphones such as the Fostex TH and Denon D lines. I have the Massdrop x Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, which has wonderfully rich and deep and prominent bass (it’s for bassheads). It slams hard but it’s not the tightest or fastest bass - for that, I’d recommend planars. A pair of headphones like my TH-X00 to look out for are the E-MU Teak (or Bamboo). They’re available through Drop here and they have the advantage of being under $500.
I’m not sure I can recommend the Dan Clark Audio Aeon headphones to you: they don’t slam hard or have punchy bass.
One last thought: beware of quality control issues with some of the more expensive Hifiman headphones. I won’t risk my money on them.
Good luck! I hope some other folks will chime in for you here.
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There are no right or wrong answers, nor absolute value judgements with headphones. Each person has different hearing, different priorities, and a different sense of comfort. I myself avoid HiFiMan per poor build quality and spotty reliability. So, I’ll never consider any of their products despite (often great) sound quality.
My first recommendation would be to get a secondary “non-technical” solid state or tube amp to compliment your Magnius. Several years ago I often used my THX AAA 789, but grew out of it and downright hate it with many setups. I find that it can improve IEMs and cheaper headphones per minimizing noise and avoiding driver limitations (especially up to the HD-600 or $300 price class), but it often makes more expensive headphones sound bad. Analytical amps have no meat on their bones and draw attention to treble details and sharp edges. This breaks with the studio equipment used for recording and ordinary human perception of music, and artificially exaggerates the details possible with higher-end headphones.
Given the above, your reactions to various headphones may change with another amp. (I keep about half a dozen amps set up for testing.) You may also consider adding either an iFi Burr-Brown DAC or Schiit multibit DAC – both substantially affect my perception of amps and headphones. Delta Sigma DACs very often whine or generate piercing treble artifacts.
@Tchoupitoulas has spelled out many options and I don’t have more to add. We all must try for ourselves, and sometimes we are surprised in either a good or bad direction.
High-end headphones are different than sub $1,000 headphones, but the meaningful gap declines as the price goes up. And you may hate some flagships too. Some swear by top of the line products, while others are “meh.” I personally haven’t heard much value beyond $1,500. I’m currently running the OG Focal Clear and HD 800S most of the time. Both can sound very nice on the right setup, but not good at all on the wrong setup (e.g., THX 789). The Focal Utopia is technically superior to both, but finicky regarding treble so I passed.
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I haven’t heard them, but I’ve read and seen many places that the Focal Elex is a very lively headphone, with plenty of punch and slam.
Might be similar to the fun of the Meze 99 Classics, which I owned and enjoyed but eventually traded because of the bass bloat and boom. I’ve read that the Elex bass is more controlled and doesn’t bleed into the mids as much as the 99 Classics.
But … the other earcup drops: The Elex are notorious for quality control issues, even more than other Focals. Reports of drivers dying after a few months due to bad soldering, etc. Squeaky wheels make the most noise, so maybe the problem isn’t as widespread as it appears. But it is something you should be aware of, as no $700 headphone should be a throwaway purchase.
Good luck.
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@Tchoupitoulas @generic @pk500 thanks for your thoughts/guidance. It’s greatly appreciated!
I think I’m going to go the Focal Clear/Clear MG route and see what happens. That’s honestly where I started, as I really love the Elegia, and initially wanted to replace it with an open-back Focal (open is my preference for HP’s in general), but then I started using the Sundara as my daily and realized that I really loved the sound (especially after EQ’ing with oratory1990’s presets… and my own for certain albums), which then put the Ananda/Arya on my radar.
I started looking at the Audeze due to them being described as warm and somewhat forgiving of bad recordings. The Meze’s were the most forgiving headphones I owned, but the bass was definitely bloated, and didn’t work for a lot of the music I listen to. So the Audeze’s sound like a significant step up from what would easily go from pleasant and relaxing to “holy f*ck this sounds thick and muddy as all hell” with the Meze’s.
At any rate, thanks for your help. I’m going to stick with Focal for now and get some amps/DACs on my radar for the future (if I don’t like how they sound with the Magnius/Modius), plan to purchase something from ZMF in the near future for myself (looks a little too complicated for my wife to choose for me), and plan to test drive some Audeze’s the next time I take a trip up to NY… unless I can find a store that demo’s them locally.
Much appreciated!
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Enjoy and report back when you have your final choice in your hands/on your ears!
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There’s Audio46 in Manhattan but closer to you is Bloom Audio, which is in southern NJ, just outside Philly, I believe.
Awesome - I hope they work out for you.
If you go with the original Clear, a nice affordable amp that pairs exceptionally well with these headphones is the Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid. (It’s not such a good pairing for the Clear Mg). It uses only a single, affordable, and readily available tube, so it’s low maintenance, and it’s a nice introduction to the world of tubes. It adds a bit of warmth and has pretty strong bass. I’ve had mine for 3 1/2 years and it’s still serving me well.
The snag is that they’re no longer in production so you have to buy them used. They sold for $250 originally and can now be had for $150, like this one here. I’m not endorsing that seller or connected with him/her in any way, so please don’t think I’m recommending this particular one; there’s another here for $90. The original listing on Drop can be found here along with some links to reviews. Some of these amps develop scratchy pots; if you get one make sure to check out the manual for instructions about turning it on as it differs from other amps. I can’t find a pdf of it (I’ve got mine somewhere!), but you can see the relevant passage here.
Good luck finding the right headphones!
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I have a pair of HD 600 and love them. I can’t answer all of your questions - I’ve not heard the iFi gear and I have no interest in MQA, for instance - but I’ll try to tackle some of them.
Yes, this is true. The HD 600 could last you a lifetime and would keep up with higher-end DACs and amps and remain highly pleasing and satisfying.
If you like the HD 600 and you’re not trying to get a radically different sound out of them (i.e. boosting the bass or something like that), I’d say that it’s entirely worth trying a new combo. Everyone’s tastes and preferences differ, of course, but unless you try pairing your headphones with better gear, you won’t know for sure.
Schiit is able to sell its products cheaply by selling directly. I realize people like Amazon for the convenience and the return policy. Schiit offers customers the opportunity to return items within 15 days for a refund minus a re-stocking fee, usually around 15% for its more affordable gear, plus return shipping. That may or may not be acceptable to you. Schiit offers excellent warranty coverage.
It’s hard to find affordable (and even expensive) gear that’s very close to neutral, and the term “neutral” is relative - what some hear as neutral, others might find slightly warm or bright. It’s hard, then, to give advice here.
For DACs, you might try the Schiit Modi (for $100). The Modi Multibit at $250 is well-regarded but it’s a bit colored, tilting slightly dark, which may not be an issue if, like me, you hear the HD 600 as slightly bright. What often matters most is matching the gear and thinking about the overall sound of the setup. For me, I have a slightly warm DAC and both a neutral amp and another mildly warm one for my HD 600; the overall synergy is wonderful; the combination offsets somewhat the brightness of the headphones and adds a bit more body and weight to the sound while also improving imaging and making for a more expansive, deeper, and wider soundstage.
It’s this synergy you should consider - you can mix and match your DAC and amp to get the desired result. This may require some experimenting to find your preferred sound; if experimenting, I highly recommend buying used gear so that you don’t lose much money reselling it. And once you land on the setup that’s right for you, you can buy new. If all this sounds like too much hassle, the iFi gear may well be ideal for you.
@SebastienChiu - do you have a recommendation of iFi gear that would pair well with the HD 600?
Getting back to the Schiit, a variation of the Modi Multibit - called “True Multibit” - can be included in a purchase of the Schiit Asgard 3 and Jotunheim 2 if you’d like an all-in-one product. Both of these amps are on the warm side of neutral. There’s also the Lyr 3, which I gather is slightly laid back, although tube rolling can change that. All three of these amps can also have an ESS DAC in them. I don’t know how this DAC affects the sound signature of these amps. Sorry.
There’s also the Modius if you’re interested in balanced. That might be more neutral, I’m not sure - I’ve not heard it. The Magnius stacks well with it but I very much doubt that this combo would pair well with the HD 600 although it might serve well for getting a neutral sound.
You might also look out for reviews of the JDS Atom. I’ve not heard it.
My recommendation is for you to give serious consideration to tube amps. They do wonderful things for the high-impedance (i.e. 300 ohm) Sennheiser headphones, including the HD 600. For reference, my setup for the HD 600 is a Bifrost 2 DAC and either a SW51+ amp (which is pretty neutral) or a ZDT Jr. (slightly warm). They’re different amp topologies and give different flavors. They’re no longer in production, though, so you’d only be able to buy them used, which of course means no warranty.
Beyond the Lyr 3, mentioned above, you might seriously consider the Vali 2+. It’s $150 but apparently punches well above its weight. I’ve seen lots of people whose impressions I trust rate it very highly, and I believe they use it with the high-impedance Senns. I’m not sure how colored it is, though, so I’d recommend doing some research.
There’s also the Valhalla 2 which is quite neutral, I believe. Not all tube amps are warm or gooey; that’s a myth. I’ve heard that the Valhalla 2 is a bit dry-sounding, and if that’s the case, it might not pair well with the HD 600 as it’s not the most lush or warm headphone to begin with (compared to its sibling, the HD 650).
If I had a budget of $600, I’d consider getting the Modi Multibit and Vali 2+ for my HD 600. But this might be too colored for you.
I hope this helps! Good luck.
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You ask some valid questions, and make a few assumptions that I expect time will change. Like many others here, I do think that the iFi products are good values. I have the original xDSD, and the new version appears to be very much in a sweet spot. This is the mid-level of iFi products, is in your price range, and probably represents some of the best value per dollar as it is one of their newest products.
MQA only matters if you are a TIDAL subscriber or have another source of MQA encoded files. I found, after years of TIDAL subscription, that I prefer non-MQA encoded hi-res files, such as are found on Qobuz. In the early years of MQA, there was a tendency for artists who used it to have somewhat better production, but this is no longer the case.
The Burr-Brown chips that iFi uses are quite good. (TI makes the chips now, they bought Burr-Brown maybe a decade ago). I find that while implementation is more important than the actual chip used, iFi’s implemention is good and the Burr-Brown DACs are to my taste (as are SCHIIT’s technology, I also have a Bifrost2).
You say that you will never use some of the other features like X-Bass and/or the cross feed. I beg to differ. At some point, you will find either a headphone, or program content that simply sounds better with those features. You just don’t know what it will be until you listen. Maybe it’s classical, and the microphones are too far from the string bass or tympani. Or maybe it’s something else. The thing is, iFi’s handling of these features is very good and not intrusive, but subtle.
IFi has a rep here, @SebastienChiu who can answer your questions in more detail.
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Hello! New here to the forum. Thanks for the welcomes!
So, taking the first plunge into the rabbit hole, albeit a beginner’s plunge. Need some direction and advice from you Sage’s of audiophile ear-Manna.
Not wishing to brag and cause any jealousy amongst you all, my current rig is:
Soundcore’s Liberty Air 2 wireless earpods
iPhone 13 Max Pro
HP Envy 17" laptop (with the killer Bang & Olufsen…mini built-in speakers)
Addendum:
However, after reading and researching many of your comments and reviews, a few days ago I plunged in by ordering the iFi GO BLU for portable wireless capability. (From this site, of course! It’s not here yet but it’s a start)
Um, that’s it. So. I know many of you are like; how can you improve on such an impressive rig? I’m not going to make it easy. And take into account I have “mature” ears. At 59 I will not have the undiminished ears of you young’uns. And quite possibly prefer a “warmer” sound signature.
Here’s the deal; Starting out I needed to be portable and wireless.
I work with and around patients in these oh so interesting-of-times of the medical world. I need the capability of being portable and wireless for obvious reasons. To be able to block out the craziness and transport myself somewhere else with music at times while doing work on computers/laptop. And at times I need to be able to pull out the IEMs and throw them down or shove in pocket at a nano-seconds notice. Lost a few, broke a few - part of the job.
Willing to take that risk for better sound now!
RABBIT HOLE STEP 1:
- I’m needing guidance on what would be a better pair of wireless IEMs paired with the GO BLU compared to my current Soundcore Liberty Air 2’s. $150 - $300 range (I am a law-of-diminishing returns kind of guy - so it doesn’t have to be the most expensive to be really good). And I must add, the Soundcore’s are a pretty decent consumer set for $100.
RH STEP 2:
- A decent pair of wired IEMs $200-$400 range (been interested in the MoonDrops, Timeless 7hz, Dunu, to name a few)
- A recommended better quality set of wires than what may come with the IEM
- Decent portable $300-$600 DAC to drive said IEMs (liking the iFi Gryphon) and future closed back wired headphones.
BONUS - need to know what I need and how to connect the portable DAC to a 2021 Genesis GV80 w/ the beautiful 1000+ watt 21-speaker Lexicon audio system. (If it really would make a difference?)
RH STEP 3: That’s enough for now! Don’t want to burn you out.
Many thanks ahead of time and GO!..
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I’ll let others give advice on specific models but I’d observe that when using wireless you are limited by the quality of bluetooth connections (they currently don’t support even cd-quality).
This means you could consider using more of the budget on the wired iem’s and less on the wireless.
Of course, there is always “better” to be had but the upper limit is going to be the bluetooth connection.
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Just as much you are limited by battery. I’m in the same sort of boat as you @C1gar1 when it comes to wireless IEMs. To begin with, my ears are also somewhat seniorized, but in good condition for all that. I don’t really like IEMs. Which doesn’t stop me from trying some. My present faves are not in the price range you mention, the Audeze LCDi3, which I use wired most of the time, but they have a wireless cable that you can connect and that has better battery than internal wireless.
My issue with most is comfort, and I do like the Ultimate Ears Fits which I reviewed here:
I also like that the Fits have their own EQ. I still use them and like them, and the custom shaping makes them the most comfortable IEMS I own.
Later on, I’d be happy to show you the way to some other mid-price rabbit holes. Like you, I’m too much of a tightwad to violate the law of diminishing returns.
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Hey how’s it going everyone. I’m looking for headphones under $1k (preferably), it’ll be used solely at home.
I’m looking for great soundstage and clear/strong mids and highs (love me some instrumentals and those nice crispy highs that make my ears tingle).
For reference, I absolutely adore the Fiio FH5s.
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Welcome to the forum @Kieo_Luveio.
Can you tell us what amp and DAC you have. That will help people recommend the right headphones for you.
Welcome! What genres of music do you listen to?