Grell OAE-1 Open Back Headphone

Headphones
41

Ok, after reading about this quite a lot I think I want to relate my experience with “Soundstage”.

I’ve been listening to Stereo for basically 50 years, Speakers & Headphones. What I’m seeing described as “Soundstage” now has been something I’ve encountered many times with certain combinations of Recording, Amplification & Speakers / Headphones. I’ve always enjoyed it when I find it, however it has always been elusive - hard to reproduce. It falls more into the “Black Magic” category of sound reproduction.

Specifically, I have a nice set of Focal Elegia ( Thanks Headphones.com. ) that do a fine job. I also have a set of Drop HiFiMan HD-X4’s. It’s the HiFiMan set that, with a cheap balanced amp & dac, are the most prone to having a really nice soundstage. Don’t have it on every piece of music, the Focal don’t either, but it does happen more frequently.

This isn’t something that I was trying for & it isn’t essential to my enjoyment of music, but I do recognize it and will take it when I find it.

Mark Gosdin

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42

This take is a lot more reasonable that the one in the review.
While I actually agree with much of what you wrote in the review, i.e. headphones will never sound like speakers in a room without some signal processing.
And let’s be clear most mixes aren’t recorded in mic’d spaces, so there is no real height/depth information in the mix.

Outside of width, It’s all largely perceptual, based on frequency and phase, which is probably why it’s so amorphous, when we hear space between things we try and map them into a space, for me that’s always in and around my head with varying degrees of width height and depth.
I always liked the term headspace,

BUT I don’t think it diminishes the value of spatial presentation it does seem to vary in a consistent from person to person way, we can tell this from largely consistent descriptions of headphones. So it’s a function of the headphone and it should be a factor in selecting a headphone, how important a factor is really down to individual tastes.

You can get weird spatial presentations from speakers FWIW, some setups make band sound like miniatures, others like giants. And there is definitely a sweet spot.

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43

Tbh, I find the descriptions are much less consistent than people seem to think. Like, the most “universally-agreed upon” soundstage headphone is likely the HD 800/S, and I see people disagreeing about their spaciousness pretty frequently these days.

In general, I don’t think people are fully aware of all of the factors that influence this perception, which makes it pretty tough to say the quality is actually inherent to the sound of the headphone. For example, I would bet considerable money that comfort and openness are equally important to both the perception itself as well as the consistency of said perception across individuals, but few people bring these factors up or know how it might be affecting their perception.

That’s why my position is that the conversation needs to be heavily amended with disclaimers re: subjectivity; because these qualities of spaciousness are likely less inherent to the headphones than people think, it’s not exactly responsible to recommend a headphone based on a quality that is tied to one’s individual perception rather than an inherent quality of the headphone itself, unless we’re all very clear about the degree to which we can/will disagree and why.

None of this diminishes how important the quality of spaciousness is to an individual, but it does kind of diminish how much stock we should put in the current conversation surrounding this quality and other people’s perceptions of its degree and importance (since IMO we’re likely to disagree on these things).

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44

Full production version now available to pre-order. Blacker, lower clamp, no case, no balanced cable but down to $249:

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45

Waiting for mine to ship. That’s right, after all the negative reviews and discussions I still wanted to try it!

My main reason is that I’ve had great success EQing headphones using my 2 stage method, everything (from very cheap to expensive) either sounds much better or at least pleasant. Another reason is that soundstage to my ears seemingly doesn’t change much at all with EQ. So I’m very curious how these would sound after giving it some eq love.

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46

I hope you have more success than I did. The OAE-1 staging seems very sensitive to changes in the FR.

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47

Thanks! I read quite a few threads on different forums on the OAE1s. They’re only like $200 so I just consider it a fun little experiment, especially since I’ve been having so much fun EQing different headphones lately (eq FR flat, then add back preference curve) with great results.

Not expecting the OAE1 to blow my mind though, my expectations are rather low!

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48

Yeah I am still happy with mine. They are fun to experiment with for sure. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

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49

Basically it was your posts that sold me on giving them a try. I’m sure the tuning isn’t to everyone’s taste, but from your description I can’t help but feel there’s potential to unlock.

FR barely means anything to me, I’ve been able to carefully EQ stuff that sounds like a FM radio to sounding very very good.

50

Got them for a couple of days now, spent a few hours listening with stock tuning, then ripped the felt pads off, then spent a few hours EQing the shit out of it. I went from being bewildered to absolutely loving it:

Initial impressions with stock tuning:
Scratchy, remote feeling treble, almost everything sounds like it’s playing back through a wall. Soundstage sounds fairly wide but not mind blowing. There’s some directionality to the sound that reduces the effect of sound being from “inside the head” a little bit. There’s bass but everything sounds so FM like, very remote and soft, there’s sub bass but there’s also zero bass punch. Clampy headband and barely enough adjustments to fit my ears. Upper mids sounds super recessed. I hear bass but absolutely zero feeling of punch, like a cheap FM radio. Great build quality, feels very solid and premium.

After removing the thick felt pads, treble is much clearer. Upper mids is much more normal. Treble’s quite hot, tactility still below average. Soundstage is good but again, not mind blowing. Sounds is much much better now though. Instead of like 3/10, now it’s like 5/10. Just sound like a super V shaped tuning now.

After very extensive EQ by smoothing out the entire treble response (it’s completely and utterly wacky as you could imagine), then adding back a preference curve, wow! These headphones are very enjoyable! One of the wider soundstage headphones out there, with bass and subbass performance that’s unrivaled in the openback segment. It sounds quite immersive with good tonality. It’s got quite a live and realistic feeling that’s hard to describe. 9/10, couldn’t put it down after a couple of hours listening. It’s most definitely a keeper. Very grand and immersive.

Other headphones on hand as comparisons: DCA Aeon RT, E3, DT1990, GSP600, HD600. And I’ve heard basically every single top of the line headphones out there plus most of the consumer and mid fi models as well.

Honestly I have no clue wtf Grell was after with the tuning. The driver’s orientation and cup shape seem to make a lot of sense. But I gave it 2 hours of stock tuning listening to everything and it’s just bad or terrible. Yet at the same time I could already feel that there’s some kind of potential lurking underneath. Even with the FM like sound… it’s somehow quite captivating and retro feeling.

Weird headphones, without extensive EQ by ear this is a hard “NOT RECOMMENDED” headphones, but it’s very, very good once tuned properly. Let’s just say it’s a huge miss by Grell, this could’ve been amazing.

I only paid $200 for a brand new unit, and I’m keeping it for sure.

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51

I kind of like them, though they took some getting used to. They’re definitely different, unique, even. Resolve’s review offers a good theory as to what A. Grell was after with the tuning – that giant 6-7k suckout apparently simulates the experience of being in the listening position in between two angled-in speakers.

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52

With my customized eq I’m loving them. The stock tuning was interesting, it reminded me of wearing Porta Pros but with some bass.

There’s something quite comforting and natural with the soundstage, I think the stock tuning was trying to achieve a particular effect that doesn’t work well for audiophiles who are used to a very different sound signature. I’m very much reminded of the times when I tried to use those impulse response impulcifier plug ins… When I listen live or with speakers my brain is automatically adjusting my expectations to suit the environment, but without those external cues I don’t find that type of sound pleasing coming out of headphones.

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53

What about positional variation? Resolve mentioned that these are very sensitive to positional variation since the angled drivers are positioned far in front and the tuning is not based on DF model. Which means theoretically that you have to adjust your EQ profile quite a bit if you move them backwards or forwards or up/down on your head.

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54

It’s definitely a real effect, but I EQed based on having the cups pushed forward as much as possible (my most comfortable position) and it simply doesn’t move at all on my head.

With the limited headband extension I find it very easy to fit the headphones to the exact same position every time, and it’s quite clampy so it doesn’t really move around.

So in my case at least, it’s one of those “Technically true” observations, but in reality the headphones aren’t difficult to position and kept there for me. I’m sure it’s not the case for everyone.

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55

One curious effect of the OAE1’s physical design is that it activates a lot of the ear’s natural resonances, more than other headphones. I find it extremely sensitive to EQ adjustments in the ear gain region from 2-4k. Even 1db up and down makes a giant difference. Other headphones are like 50% less sensitive to me with the same adjustments.

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56

What does it look like?

I guess I’ll have to try removing the felt pads and tuning again. Unfortunately I won’t have time for some while as I have several new headphones coming in.

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57

image
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This is customized for my ears only using many sweeps and alternating tones (in fact it’s a bit different left to right, only left is shown here) so there’s no point in copying it, your ears will interact differently to the OAE1 than mine, that’s for sure. I’ve also got the felt pads removed which reduces the “cliff” at 6khz a bit. It gives you an idea about how wild the stock tuning is (but we already know that)

The graph is showing the EQ applied, so the stock tuning for me is too mid bass heavy, ear gain region is a tiny bit shouty, there’s a huge dip at 6.5khz, a giant peak at 8khz, and several dips in the upper treble which are wave cancellations within my ears. Unfortunately they cannot be completely cancelled out even with those sharp additions, not a big deal though. In general there’s too much treble energy as well, especially above 12khz (with felt pads removed).

I tried not to be too aggressive with filling in the valleys in the FR so as not to induce any ringing effects, and I’ve toggled on and off all those peaks in the EQ to ensure they’re not introducing any artifacts. With my very average peasant ears, this sounds fine, and it sounds better with the filters on than not.

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58

What’s coming in your headphone pipeline? You can’t make a comment like that with no follow up! :laughing:

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59

Let’s just say I really need to update my AudioTool’s system(s) topic. :grimacing:

In fact I’m going to work on that right now…

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60

So that graph is the outcome (tuning + your EQ), or the EQ you’ve applied? I think you said the former, but just looking I’d have guessed the latter. In fact it looks quite like what I’d try if I wanted to “neutralize” the Grell :smile: