I’m trying to find a tube amplifier that: can handle both low and high impedance headphones; has a preamplifier output (for use with headphones or speakers); and is in the less than $1500 price range. I’ve come across the Decware CSP3 and Feliks lineup.
I’d appreciate anyone’s input on the CSP3 and Feliks, ideally for both amplifier and preamplifier functions.
Please also advise if you have other gear recommendations.
Thank you!
You could try one of the Schiit Audio amps - the Valhalla, Lyr 3, or Mjolnir - as they all meet your criteria. Since you’re in LA, you could go test-drive them as the retail store, The Schiitr, isn’t far from you. (You’ll need to take your own headphones).
It’s interesting that there aren’t many tube amps in the $700-$2000 range. I have a ZDT Jr. and would probably have to fork out a lot of cash to get a meaningful upgrade with my HD 800.
If the speakers in question take RCA inputs, get a Schiit Sys.
Plug your DAC output into the Sys output. (Yes, that’s right…)
Plug one of the inputs into your monitors, the other into your headphone amp.
The volume control on the front can be bypassed by turning it to max while listening to headphones. Otherwise, it controls the speaker volume.
The input switch selects which output is active, so you don’t have your speakers going while you’re trying to listen to headphones.
I’ve used it this way for years.
Now the preamp requirement for your tube amp hunt can be eliminated.
Thanks for the reminder for Schiit. I had contacted them a few weeks ago about tube preamps and the rep’s personal view was that their tube gear was “linear/neutral for tubes, but with some added holography and 3D-ness to the soundstage.” My preference at the moment is to lean more toward tubey/juicy rather than linear/neutral. Per your suggestion, maybe I should make my way over to The Schiitr for a test-drive soon.
It is interesting that there are limited options in the $700 to $2k range. I’m curious what the next meaningful upgrade would be for you from your ZDT Jr. – and then if it were me I’d evaluate whether it would be better to allocate the same amount of funds to headphones instead. It probably depends on what headphones are already in one’s collection (not many for me).
Thanks for your input. I have tried using my Sys in a similar fashion (but my speakers are not powered and do not have RCA inputs).
When I tried plugging my DAC into the Sys output and my speaker power amplifier to a Sys input, I wasn’t getting full volume out of the left channel and had phase issues. Unfortunately, my results differ from your successful setup and maybe I need to do a bit more troubleshooting.
My speaker power amp is solid state. My speakers are low sensitivity 85 dB (4 ohms) and I’m not ready quite yet to get a dedicated tube power amp for my speakers. I do want to introduce some tube influence into both my headphone and speaker setups, and thought a tube headphone amp with preamp outputs might be an effective approach.
So I’m wondering if a one-device solution such as the CSP3 or a Feliks has better overall sound quality compared to a two-device solution such as the Freya + (for speakers only) with Bottlehead Crack (for headphones only).
My ear leans more toward tubey/textured (but not extremely) rather than linear/neutral. For example, I prefer the Asgard 3 over the THX AAA 789, and HD650 over HD600.
Appreciate your input (I had been hoping my post caught your attention).
What input does your speaker amp have?
It has RCA inputs only.
And it works ok with the SYS connected the other way (DAC to input and output to speaker amp)?
Yup, it works perfectly fine and as intended consistent with the manual specifications on input and output flow.
That is certainly strange, sorry but I have no idea why it works one way and not the other.
I thought so too, thanks. I’ll note that when the speakers are plugged out of polarity, ie positive and negative plugs incorrectly switched, it goes into protection mode and no sound will come out of the speakers. Maybe it’s a case of my amp being overly sensitive to connections and signals.
I’m speaking less here from direct experience, which is very limited, and more from reading the forums avidly. I’ve been looking out for potential upgrades to my setup based around an HD 800. The consensus seems to be that this headphone benefits from some warmer, tubey delight, which is why I didn’t opt for the drier Schiiit amps. I picked up the ZDT Jr. because it was within my budget and because I figured it would tide me over until such time as I might want to go all-in and hog-wild with a high-end amp.
Between the ZDT Jr. and $2,000+ amps my sense is that the following are the options available to us (in no particular order and not necessarily to pair with the HD 800):
Ok, so now that I’ve listed them, I’m not so sure my comment above that “there aren’t many tube amps in the $700-$2000 range“ can be sustained. Oops, mea culpa.
Beyond these, I’m at a loss to find anything else until you get to such high-end offerings as those of Donald North Audio, ampsandsound, the ZMF Pendant (not so tubey), ECP Audio, or Eddie Current, the latter now only being available used. There’s the iFi Audio Pro iCAN but I’m not sure its sound is very tubey, either.
I’d be delighted to hear of other amps that I might be oblivious to - please let us know if you find any gems. And I agree that it would probably be better to allocate funds for the headphone, especially as that can pay the most immediate and significant dividends when it comes to improved sound quality.
For this very reason my interest in upgrading the amp has been complicated by the release of the RAAL Requisite SR1a. I can now imagine a (distant) future (it’s nice to daydream) in which I take the $2,000+ I might have spent on a totl tube amp and sell the HD 800 and the ZDT Jr for ca $800, and put the combined amount towards the SR1a. At that point I could probably get a used SR1a or be some 80% of the way to its MSRP with the inferface box (I have a few old power/integrated amps kicking around that could tide me over for a while, and there’s always the Jot R).
Apologies in advance for the double-post but go Schiit for being candid about the sound of their tube gear re. your preferences. Once again Schiit shows itself to be such a great company.
The ZDT Jr. is a great amp. I believe it has pass-thru outputs (but not necessarily preamp outputs, based on what I’ve read).
Thanks for listing out our options. I had come across some but not all. I’m also aware of the Hagerman Tuba and Bottlehead line (sorry if this was already mentioned in our earlier exchanges) as well as a few other brands offered at the apos.audio online store. I’ll keep an eye out and will let you know if I come across others.
Mea culpa noted, but I do get your drift in there being more limited options compared to solid state!
Wow, if you were able to upgrade/trade up to the RAAL, that would truly be an elevation in tiers.
I believe we are on the same page / in the same boat. Please do keep me posted as things proceed for you!
No worries and you’re right. I need to listen with my own ears. Schiit is in my backyard and I’m on board with the company, its founders, and their products. My current go-to rig is the Modi Multibit ladder DAC and Asgard 3 Class A Continuity - to my ear, it fully delivers, especially at its price point.
SW51+ destroyed the zdt jr. 
5 of 6 people at this mini meet agreed. (The 6th couldn’t be bothered to try either of them, so…) If you are a fan of the Jr, might be worth looking into.
Thanks, I’m not too familiar with the SW51+. 5 of 6* is pretty close to consensus.
Yes, the sadly destroyed 
ZDT Jr does have pass-thru outputs; its warmth probably wouldn’t be a good match with the HD 650, especially if your DAC is warm or dark (in my previous posts I’d missed your source and headphone preferences); I opted for the ZDT Jr. specifically for use with the HD 800.
Thanks for mentioning the Bottlehead, I knew I was missing something (also the Auris Audio Euterpe, about which I know absolutely nothing), and I’m not familiar with the Hagerman, either.
Re. the Hagerman and the SW51+ I now have my weekend’s forum homework lined up! Thanks @ProfFalkin for this recommendation; it was also instructive and great to read your post a while back in the Schiit Audio thread comparing the SW51+ with the ZDT Jr. and the Lyr 3.
Glad I could help.
I wasn’t at the meet, but own both and agree, though I think they are very different amps. If anything the SW51+ has a character more similar to the Haggerman Tuba.
Plus rolling tubes in the SW51+ is dirt cheap.
I paid a whopping $5 a piece for the NOS Mullards in mine.
It’s just a pity very soon it will be completely unavailable.
