Hey everyone,
I’m pretty new to this, so sorry if it’s a noob question.
I don’t have a big CD or vinyl collection, so I mostly listen to music through streaming services. I’d really like to get the best possible audio quality and also have access to a big music library.
So I have two main questions:
Which streaming services would you recommend for the best sound quality (and biggest selection)? I personally was planning on using Qobuz or Tidal…
What kind of equipment should I use — Streamer, Roon integration,DAC, amp, speakers, headphones, etc. (or do i just but everything in an integrated amplifier with everything built in)— to get the most out of those streaming services?
Right now I’m just using basic gear, but I’m planning to upgrade and want to do it right. Any advice for someone just starting out would be super helpful. Thanks!
I like Qobuz as a streaming service. As to the system, if you can swing a monoblock amp set up, that’s the way go. It’s pricey but worth it.I went with Perlisten S7T speaks and Michi amps P5 and S5. And a Eversolo streamer. There are many good systems out there and lots of used components. Happy hunting!
Not having a large CD or vinyl collection suggests you already have access to some lossless media, so I would recommend comparing that to whatever streaming service you are currently using. Many services offer free trial periods, so you can decide whether you can actually hear a difference and if that difference is worth paying for.
My personal take on the hi fi hierarchy is: Speakers or Headphones → Amplification → DAC → Source → Cables and Extras.
If you can enjoy free music for now, save the money you would spend on subscription fees and put it toward better gear instead.
Basic gear is all you really need to enjoy music, everything else is just gravy. If you have money to burn, welcome to the insanity. If not, run.
First, you need to tell us what budget you are working with. Second, use Qobuz. Third, most people start at the beginning - as the hookah-smoking caterpillar advised Alice. You could start with a Wiim Ultra feeding a Fosi or Topping amp. Pair with some modest speakers and that may be all you need. From there you could upgrade components if you find the upgrade hunt enjoyable. If not you could follow an integrated path. Start with a Cambridge CXA81, connect to Ethernet and speakers and enjoy. Many good upgrade paths from there, too. Best of luck.
^This. @Rostuse Start slow, gain some experience through listening to determine which sound quality attributes matter to you the most, and then if you haven’t hit audio fatigue, go nuts and have fun.
Qobuz and Tidal are both great for sound quality IMO. Be sure they have all of the artists/music you like and decide based on that and price.
As for equipment, again, start slow and keep it basic, then build from there. Grab a nice pair of headphones under $500 and a simple DAC and amp stack or an all-in-one from Schiit, JDS or FIIO. Put the breaks on purchasing for a while and take time to listen and enjoy. While on that discovery journey, determine what you feel is missing or could be improved in on; if it’s nothing, you’re done. If you yearn for better/more, welcome to the insanity!
Thank you my friend! had access to a lot of cds and vinyl, I unfortunately moved they stayed with my dad along with the equipment. I have access to Spotify now, but I’m gonna switch to tidal or qobuz. That was exactly my point what should I prefer and in which form. Should I by then separately or should I take the one box with everything in it. I don’t quite the space in my room, and I don’t want anything fancy…. But i am ready to buy them speratley also . I was said that the amplifier must have DAC built in (or separately bought) and of course streamer and speakers ( I want also headphones)…
There are a lot of factors in choosing audio gear so there is never a simple answer other than it depends. YouTube is full of reviewers who are happy to suggest rigs at all price points, so jump down a few rabbit holes for clarity. In practical terms you need a way to get online, access your streaming service, send that signal to a DAC, then an amp, then your headphones. Combo units are excellent because they provide strong functionality and features at better price to performance ratios. Once you are hooked you may start chasing the dragon for better sound, then you may start looking into separates and spend money for diminishing returns.
If you have a computer or even a phone you already have a streamer. With a good set of IEMs many people consider that all they need.
My advice is to spend about half your budget to get started and then follow your nose from there. I would also recommend considering buying used as a way to climb the fidelity ladder more quickly.
There are integrated amps with ethernet-based streaming built-in:
Wiim Amp Pro, around $400
Eversolo Play, around $700
Audiolab 6000A Play, around $1000
Many others, and they all have their pros and cons, of course. Point being, you can have a pretty nice speaker-based streaming system for under $1500.
(Do note that even though some of those integrated amps may have headphone outputs, an inexpensive HP amp from Schiit or JDS will undoubtedly be better.)
Enjoy the music, and enjoy the journey. The gear is just a means to an end, not the end itself.
The Cambridge CXA81 would required a streamer. I had an CXA81 paired with an Bluesound Node 2i and they sounded great. Actually, on further thought I’d recommend for you a Wiim Ultra streamer/dac or Wiim amp Ultra all-in-one. I’m listening to Qobuz connect on the former right now on Sennheiser HD650 earphones. $329 for the Wiim Ultra streamer/dac and $300 for the Senns. The quality of sound one gets for a mere $629 is amazing. I may experiment with and external dac or an external amp, but I’m in no hurry to do so.
With the Wiim Ultra amp all you need do is add speakers, and there are lots of great choices for a modest system. If you go with the Wiim Ultra streamer/dac pair it with something like the Fosi ZA3 amp for $149. You just can’t miss. These units are easily resold, too. Best of luck.
Agreed! Allocate the most money in that order. I would put about half of your budget into headphones. But that’s just what I would do.
I think that is good advice for most people. But maybe not all. If you have ideas you want to try out, don’t let our advice stop you. When I first joined this forum, I asked a similar question, though at a higher budget ($10k) and I received a similar response (go slow). Someone on that thread also recommended a Donald North Audio Stellaris and I have been in heaven since.
Anyway, what I’m saying is listen to all advice given, but feel free to go your own way.
It’s perfectly reasonable to move quickly when you already have a solid frame of reference. However, for those who are new to the hobby, the general consensus is to start slowly. Taking time to gain experience helps you develop that frame of reference - otherwise, it becomes difficult to distinguish the good from the great, and you may unintentionally miss out on meaningful improvements. It can also prevent unnecessary spending, as cost does not always correlate with performance in this hobby.
Ultimately, you should follow the approach that feels right for you. If you prefer having someone simply tell you what to buy, that’s a valid path as well.
Advice that is. Take it from someone who gets their inspiration from print on a pizza box. Been doing the two channel room hi-fi since the ‘70s. I would bet that @Lou_Ford has too.
The biggest item that has been missing from the conversation to date is What is your room like?. My advice on cost and speaker type would change drastically if you are in a big room vs small, and if you have a live or sound-absorbing environment.
Not to mention items that can impede good speaker placement such as furniture, fireplace, or a spouse.
Spousal approval is critical. If you don’t have it, you just might find out what kind of audio bliss you have with Magnepan 3.7i’s stuffed up where the sun don’t shine.
I tend to separate budget for speakers and headphones. It’s possible to share a source, and possibly even a DAC, but the mechanics of listening in a room or on an headphone stack are diverge widely from there.
Best bang for budget allocation is 40-50% to speakers (assuming you are streaming and don’t need hardware for vinyl). Maybe even more if you are using integrated electronics. You need enough power to adequately drive the speakers, and unless you typically like to listen to music at dangerous levels, you don’t need more than about 50 RMS watts per channel unless you have particularly inefficient speakers or a very large room.
In a small to medium room, a properly designed speaker with 6 inch woofers can be adequate - especially if you add a sub. In a large room, you really want to move some frickin’ air, or you may end up disappointed.
Once you tell us about your room, we can then make suggestions which you are free to ignore.
Note: Room size doesn’t matter for headphones. Some people think I’m opinionated. If package does not appear full, contents may have settled during shipping, or we might be trying to cheat you.
My living room is small to medium maybe 18-25 m2… a phage spouse approval for now, but with the German mentality, and my surrounding I don’t think I can use speakers a lot. I would focus more firstly on heapphobes. And maybe for starters a box with everything integrated… so feel free to tell my your opinion. And yes there are a lot of small thing in the long room. Desk, furniture, table , chairs, sofa …
I’ll add another vote for: use your phone/tablet/laptop to stream tidal or qobuz, buy a $200 dac/amp from JDS or Schiit (if available where you are) and about $300 for HD600 or HD650(HD6XX) headphones.
Use that for 6 months to adjust to a natural sounding setup, then see if you feel a need to change anything or keep that setup for years as many have done.
If you’re in Germany, see if you can visit @Lothar_Wolf and listen to some of what he has. Bring a wheelbarrow in case he wants to unload some of it…
An integrated box - we used to call them receivers - makes sense if you are sure you are going to be getting speakers. Personally, I like speakers better than most headphones. It sounds as if my office is similar in size to your living room, and I find that modest speakers work well. We all have different definitions of modest. And how much room you have may determine if you get floorstanding or bookshelf speakers.
I’ve found that finding the right system can be a journey, and that your ears and preferences can change. I agree with all the folks that say to use phone or tablet to stream at first. I use Qobuz and Apple Music. Both can deliver lossless files. For a DAC/AMP,
I like some of the mid level iFi equipment and some of the more expensive FIIO stuff. Schiit is very good but not generally available outside the US. Sabaj also has a reasonable price point, if a confusing catalog.
The Sennheiser headphones - HD600 and HD650 are a standard, not a bad place to start to see if you like them. Most decent headphones can be sold or bought on the used market if budget is an issue. If I haven’t heard a particular headphone, I don’t like to recommend, so I can’t speak to the interesting new ones.
Some of the HiFiman headphones in their middle range are quite good, but the company has a reputation for fragility. The HE-560 which sold for about $800 a few years ago can be found new for around $300 now.
It’s difficult to be more specific, But if you can find a way to listen to several choices, do it.
You can put together an acceptable system in many price ranges.
Later note: I have not heard the Hifiman Edition XV, but reviews from people I respect suggest it may be a worthy alternative to the Sennheiser HD-600/650 standard recommendation. *Caveat Emptor* I have not heard it...
If you go the Roon route, just a heads-up that the ‘Core’ doesn’t need to be fancy - any quiet NUC or old PC tucked away in a closet works great. That leaves you more budget to put into the speakers/headphones where you’ll actually hear the difference.
Like @pennstac says, I don’t like to recommend thing’s I haven’t heard.
First I’d say start with philosophy on aqcuiring equipment. For me I didn’t understand audio when described, buzz words meant nothing to me so I started by getting something in my hands and on my head that epitomized some specific aspect or two. That way I understood something which it did really well and what it didn’t do so well. Then I knew what aspect I wanted to explore further. And it has just snowballed from there. I have experienced some stinkers, and some mediocre products but most of the midfi stuff is pretty darn good.
Your budget is substantial for a headphone setup, not so much if you want speakers. The problem with speakers is it’s a couple thousand instead of hundred to toy around and if you don’t like a set of speakers you’re stuck with them. My new set of towers… after a while I just do not like them, even with a minidsp there is an annoying kickdrum frequency that they just can’t get away from. Maybe it’s my terrible room setup but my old towers in a different room didn’t have that issue.
With that budget you could swing for the fences on headphones and get a really good setup, but you’ll be going in blind. For the budget I’ve spent on all of my headphone equipment I could have literally any headphone short of an HE1 or shangri-la along with a really good dac and amp. But I used all of that experience to find my end game solution, which again for the price of that chain I could have anything that isn’t insane. But I chose what I got specifically because I knew I would love it.
So short of listening to something ahead of time at a store or from a friend or acquaintance I would get the Sennheiser 600/650 and a good midfi dac/amp like something from ifi, fiio, topping or smsl. That way you can get a headphone that most everyone in the hobby has and you can learn what they say about it. And who knows it could be end game for you and you can move on to speakers. My HD6xx is still among my favorite headphones, and if they tickle your meat holes just right you could expand on them with a tube amp (mmmm they love tubes).
The only thing I have to say about other’s comments; my experience with Hifi-man has been less than spectacular. I’ve only purchased one headphone from them that gets a lot of praise, but I can’t bring myself to wear it. Not because of the sound quality, the edition XS is superb for sound, rather fitment and introduced sound from the headband for the first 20-30 minutes after putting them on. And considering I have the bladder of a chipmunk that means that almost half of the time I’m wearing them they’re settling in which can be very offputting. I’ve never heard anyone mention this before so maybe it’s just mine, but I’ve heard them ever so slightly make clicks in the background of reviewers while being handled.
