Hifiman Ananda Open-Back Planar Magnetic Headphones - Official Thread

Thank you all for all of you welcoming me to the forum. I am just getting back into Headphones as a hobby; it great to have a community to talk with about my observation and get feedback.

My day job is working GPU and building GPU Computing System, aka supercomputers for High-Performance Computing and Artificial Intelligence workloads.

Alex, What started question about current needs for headphones, was the Aeon Flow Open, I started asking what is holding such a low impendence headphone back. Made wonder what is the activation energy for the driver. Peak Currents and average currents are something I have to look at a lot in my day job with GPUs. It had me wondering about are we seeing an issue in current delivery for these headphones.

I have a new amp coming Tom Christian Audio HPA-1 coming in, still figuring out what my final DAC will be. Love tubes but only in Guitar AMPs.

To hold me over, I am using xDuoo XD05 Plus amp 1 W into 32 Ohm, comes with an AKM 4493 DAC. I liked it had USB-C, and it was portable since I use a MacBook Pro when I travel. A plus is the 6.5 mm jack for when I am using full-size headphones. It has a few quirks like you need special OTG USB-C to USB-C cables. After some trial and tribulations, aka testing a lot of USB-c cables ; ) I found a third party cable that nicer than the OEM cable. (DD Electronics Technology TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable). Also, works are USB-C to USB-A cable with USB-A to USB-C converter.

Here is a table that should help, note I ranked the headset by Sensitivity dB per 1 Vrms

You just have to watch for Amp that has a current limiter or poor peak current delivery which less then what it takes to drive your headphone.

Also, another thing to understand the difference in how Impedance works on Dynamics headset vs Planner headsets.

Bellow are from Ty charts at Interfiedelity, but you will see general impedance behavior for both of these types of headphones. The planner is relatively flat vs frequency, and Dynamic driver has oscillation vs frequency.

Focal Elear
Source https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FocalElearwithUtopiaPads.pdf

Hifiman HE-1000
Source https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE1000PreProduction.pdf

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It’s a reason why I decided to go with the Arya. That said, the reason Hifiman went away from the swivel cups of previous generation was most likely due to the rampant issues of the yokes breaking. I had 3 of them break on my HE560, but their customer service was fantastic and shipped out new headbands within two days to me at my doorstep. They also sent me the new headband design that is on the Ananda/Sundara, and I can’t stand it.

Luckily I do have a spare older style headband that uses 3D printed yokes and are much more durable.

Now that said, Hifiman re-released the old headband design with reinforced steel within the molded plastic exterior. The new Arya revision has it. I wonder if hifiman would agree to sell it for ananda users that are interested.

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I would love it if they did. But, when I tried the Ananda-BT they had introduced a kind of notch system to where the arms attach, kind of like how Focal does it. So it did have a bit of cup swivel. I’m wondering if there’s a revision on the wired version that has it. Maybe someone has already mentioned that.

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A few years back I built the AGDR ODA amp. Its a diy amp that is no longer available for DIY. I was and still am a friend of the designer, he was around when “Rocket Scientist” was out there spreading the word on his O2 amp…

My friend actually communicated with him alot and discussed what a desktop ODA would possibly be like. and then he disappeared…but my friend came up with a possible iteration and this is what I use as a standard amp that drives almost anything well (except electro’s)…

I have a post on this build Desktop ODA?

So I am very much aware of the current vs voltage as it relates to headphones etc…

Here is a discussion I had back then?

The Quesion was: ODA maximum output power into various loads with +/-12.5Vdc power supply rails

Good question! :) A lot of folks looking at the ODA would want to know.

The ODA will output a maximum swing of 7.25 volts rms without the attenuation resistors (or with them jumper-shorted), or half that at 3.75Vrms with the attenuation resistors, unless the output current exceeds about 60mA per output chip. There are 6 chips in parallel, so that would be 60ma * 6 = 360mA maximum per channel. I often write 300mA for the ODA just to be conservative. Sort of my reaction to the commercial stuff where everything is over-rated, I prefer to under-rate a little bit. :) The output chips can actually do 70mA too, according to NwAvGuy, but i knock that down to 60mA to be conservative.

For output current it is necessary to switch back from rms (for power) to peak to make sure the peak currents don’t exceed what the output chips can do. So at 300R, the maximum current with a 7.25V swing would be (7.25Vrms * 1.414)/300R = 34.2 mA(peak) vs. the 360mA, well within bounds. With the atten resistors gives even less current draw, (3.75Vrms * 1.414)/ 300 = 17.7mA. In fact the biggest problem you may run into with some 300R (and 600R) headphones, if they have lower sensitivity, is that even 7.25Vrms isn’t enough voltage swing. That is why the +/-15Vdc option is available, to give about 2.5Vrms more swing for 300R and up phones that need it.

The maximum power output into 300R is then (7.25Vrms)^2 / 300R = 175mW. With the atten resistors it is (3.75Vrms)^2 / 300R = 47mW.

Using the same math on the rest:

Max current with 120R load = 85.4mA(peak), and with the atten resistors = 44.2mA(peak). Both OK vs. the 360mA available.
The maximum power into 120R is 438mW, or 117mW with the atten resistors.

Max current with 64R load = 160.2mA(peak), and with the atten resistors = 82.9mA(peak). Both OK vs. the 360mA available.
The maximum power into 64R is 821mW, or 220mW with the atten resistors.

Max current with 32R load = 320mA(peak), and with the atten resistors = 166mA(peak). Both OK vs. the 360mA available.
The maximum power into 32R is 1.64W, or 439mW with the atten resistors.

Note that things are starting to get interesting with the current at 32R. The maximum current with the 7.25Vrms output at 320 is getting close to that 360mA maximum. We can expect that with a 16R load the ODA won’t be able to go all the way up to 7.25Vrms without distorting. Sure enough, that is what mgalusha’s dScope tests showed. The ODA went up to round 4.4Vrms at 16R load with THD+N levels 36% less than the O2, but then the distortion rose going up to around 6Vrms, which was the maximum before the distortion rose exponentially.

This set of numbers is for the 4.4V4ms output level, and 2.2Vrms with the atten resistors:
Max current with 16R load = 388mA(peak), and with the atten resistors = 194mA(peak).
The maximum power into 16R is 1.21W, or 302mW with the atten resistors (again, this is with 4.4Vrms and 2.2Vrms levels).

Notice the 388mA peak vs. the 360mA “max”. Remember above that I said I was being slightly conservative and using 60mA max for each output op-am vs. the 70mA that NwAvGuy used. Looks like NwAvGuy is right once again, and Mike’s dScope measurement prove it. Using the full 70mA number the maximum output rating of the ODA goes up to 6 * 70mA = 420mA instead of 360mA. So 388mA actually is within the OK range.

And finally, at the 6.0Vrms level (or 3.0Vrms with atten resistors) where Mike measured the maximum output before distortion zooms up, we get:
Max current with 16R load = 530mA(peak), and with the atten resistors = 265mA(peak).
The maximum power into 16R is 2.25W, or 562mW with the atten resistors (again, this is with 6Vrms and 3Vrms levels).

Notice the 530mA here vs. the “new” 420mA max. This says that even NwAvGuy was a bit conservative with the 70mA per op-amp number. The real maximum for the NJM4556AL chips looks like around 530/6 = 88mA or so per chip. The current capability of the chip is taken off a graph in the datasheet with a rounded curve which is why there is some much variance in interpreting it.

This is the amp that worked the best with the Anandas…

Alex

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Alex,
I hope I did not offend you, that AMP looked like it was a fun project. Last year I rebuilt a 1961 Binson Echorec 2.

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@angstorms

Hey Greg!

Absolutley not. I just posted this to share with you some of the logic and thinking I went thru trying to understand and figure out this current / voltage relationship and how to figure out how much power at various impedances and all that gorp. :grinning:

Its really a complex subject but interesting to me…I was a electronics tech for many years and have an EE background now, but am retired…DIY is really neat to me it allows me to build some really good stuff at a more affordable price, might not look as nice as the commercial stuff but it works well none the less.

This is one website where you can discuss stuff and have a different opinion and experiences and not get hammered by someone for our diffrences…

Thanks and again welcome to the site!!

Alex
:grin:

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@lost33. thanks.

Just watched this!

Neat toy…do u still have this?

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Yes this is the one ,

When you hear a lot of the early Pink Floyd records you will hear this as the primary delay. Also, have a Roland SpaceEcho RE-201 which is a fun delay and reverb.

Here is one of the caps i had to replace 47+ 47 uF 350 V for power conditioning. I found a new replacement being manufacutured today. As you can see it was on it last legs

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That’s awesome!

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Thank you Anthony @antdroid for letting me know, As I thought the headband yokes on the Arya were just plastic, so it is really good to know that they reinforced it with steel within the molded plastic. I’ll have to check and ask Hifiman to see if they would sell that headband for an Ananda owner, as I agree it is Not a good design

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I have a friend that has a HPA-1 coming as well and he is sending it to me for a review…should be interesting to compare with the THX AAA amp I have and others…

Alex

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Look forward to hearing what you think about it. Have you tried the Geshelli Labs ARCHEL2.5 PRO amp yet?

No I have not…but would love to!!

Right now I am testing a new Schitt B2 MB dac with the THX AAA amp and Focal Clears…so far the word is Sublime!

:>)

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Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the Bifrost on its thread. :+1:t4:

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Will do!! Didnt mean to hijack this thread!!! :grinning:

Back to the Ananda’s please!!

Alex

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Oh, I wasn’t implying that at all.

I’m looking to buy the Bifrost and I just wanted more feedback! :laughing:

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@lost33. So we have a place to talk about TCA HPA-1, I figured one of the main editors will want to put in the official amp discusion section when they review it. For now, I started a thread in the General AMP discussion area. Tom Christian Audio(TCA) HPA-1 Head Amplifier

I moved it to the official discussion category and updated the title to reflect this.

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Thanks, I updated the specifications section.