Hifiman Sundara Open-Back Planar Magnetic Headphones - Official Thread

I did speak to one person who says they got a replacement pair of pads and they were the same as the ones on their revised Sundaras, and I’ve actually ordered that pair of pads I posted photos of myself now (Hifiman call them ‘Pali Pads’), so I’ll see what they’re like in hand.

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Ok so I just got the Pali pads and they’re not even exactly the same as each other…so that’s yet another possible variable in play now haha. Really stupid question, but some people elsewhere are questioning your measurements of the revised Sundara due to the large frequency response changes from the original so I just want to allay their skepticism - are you 100% sure those measurements are correct? There wasn’t any possibility of accidentally leaving some EQ on somewhere (as they very closely follow the Harman target), or even mixing up graphs with another headphone’s measurements (e.g. the Deva, as they are very similar to Oratory’s measurements of the latter as I showed before)? I’m only asking so I can put their doubts to bed really.

Well, two things on that. I’ve measured it a number of times - I still have it here, and I get the same result. The other thing to look at is that even on the old MiniDSP EARS rig, you can see a difference as well. This is a bit surprising to read that people aren’t trusting these measurements, but that may also be due to the fact that I was previously using a MiniDSP EARS rig - and that’s definitely something to only use for comparison purposes. With the GRAS43AG-7 rig this is something that we can be a lot more confident in.

And lastly, I don’t actually EQ the Sundara, so I don’t think that’s a possible error. When doing measurements, you want to make sure you have all enhancements disabled so there’s no chance of that happening.

I’d also like to point out that Metal571 and a number of other reviewers have heard the new revision of the Sundara exactly the same way, and reported the same findings I did even before we had the GRAS rig. So, I’m not sure who is skeptical about this but there are enough reports of it both measuring and sounding this way that corroborate one another.

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Great, I’ll quote this to the doubters :slight_smile:

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The plot thickens. Crinacle has published his measurement of the Sundara using the GRAS 43AG-7:


Looks similar to oratory1990’s measurement to me. If so that would indicate either they both measured the original Sundara, there’s unit variation, or there’s something inconsistent with the way the revised Sundara has been measured (slightly different equipment, ambient conditions, headphone position, etc). :thinking:
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It’s the same measurement rig, but we do have it set up somewhat differently. I’ve been comparing with him for a number of measurements and they all generally look pretty close - at least within unit variation tolerances. For FR, there shouldn’t be that much difference, I know he’s measuring in a mall but that doesn’t really impact FR that much when testing at sufficient volumes. With the Sundara, I measured both the old and ‘new’ revisions before, back when we had the old EARS rig and not the GRAS, and this did show an important difference. Same rig, same environment for both units (I had three units total, two old and one new).

So really the question on my mind is, which is old and which is new. Chronologically for us in NA, the better measuring unit was more recent. But this could also just be stock allocation, and what we’re calling ‘new’ here could potentially be the old one. But this wouldn’t line up with any other reviews chronologically either. So I may just need to get another unit and test that.

If you’re wondering, I’ve measured the other channel here as well:

And lastly, we also don’t know how old the Z & Co demo unit is. I’ll see if Crin can find out.

EDIT: Looking more closely at Crin’s measurement, I’m actually uncertain if this is the previous version. This is almost close enough to this one that it explains the differences - and that’s definitely not as bad as the previous revision for bass roll-off and midrange unevenness (we’re talking on the order of 5dB deviations for the old one, and both of these aren’t as bad). I mean it very well could also just be unit variation that accounts for all of this, and maybe this one unit I have here is the lucky one. I’ll see if I can get another one in to confirm.

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This is really fascinating to me. Thanks for the additional info and not taking my comments as a critique.

I tried to compare the FR curves using the same scale, but it’s tricky. I need to find or make a tool that can overlay them. I wish I had access to the data instead. Then it would be easy.

I can send you my Sundara if that helps.

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Keep in mind also that the targets are different, and the normalization is likely also different. I’m still using the Harman combined target (2013 bass with 2018 mids and treble), Oratory is using Harman 2018, and Crin is using the IEF target that uses Harman 2018 for mids and treble but is flat all the way down from 900hz. So really you have to look just at the raw measurements and compare that.

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Hi, i recently bought my pair of sundaras from amazon two weeks ago, and i´ve been listening to them in a daily basis, what i can say is that i´m very pleased with this headphones being my first pair of real headphones, i listen to all kinds of music and it is like if a lighning has struck me because of the quality and detail these ones give, i´ve read about the issues the brand has with qc but in my case i dont think there is any problem, the only concern i have that i would like to share is that while any genre sounds fantastic in this cans, even classical, i´ve found that in the highest pitched female opera sounds, piano and very high strings tend to distort o clap i dont know it´s name, it sound like grainy, i use a dragonfly red from a lenovo thinkpad with spotify, if anybody knows what causes this, because with any other types of music including much of the classical pieces, it stands marvelous, only this detail concerns me because of the qc background the brand has, i thank you in advance to you all for the advice.

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Planar headphones often have a diffuse, dithered, grainy sound versus dynamic drivers. I don’t think you have a bad pair.

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Hoy can i solve tris? With a better dac or amp?

Yes, a DAC or an amp could well make a difference. You’re using just the Dragonfly Red right now? I’ve not heard it, or the Sundara, so I can’t comment on the pairing. But it’s possible that some pairings of DACs and amps can accentuate certain characteristics of headphones that people find displeasing.

You might like to experiment, then, with other gear. I’ll let others offer recommendations for you. You might need a warmer or darker DAC or amp.

Sometimes, though, you can’t completely get rid of the inherent characteristics of some headphones. You can mitigate or ameliorate things you dislike, but they may not go away altogether. If that’s the case, you might get used to the graininess or come to tolerate it, or you may decide you need to try something else. Good luck!

Also, you might consider switching spotify for a higher-quality streaming service like Tidal or Qobuz. They won’t make for a vast difference, especially as you get into the hobby, but the high-quality source can make an appreciable improvement once you’re used to the sound of your gear. This shouldn’t be your first priority, though. See what people say about good DAC and amp pairings for your Sundara.

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Anyone who owns the new revision of the sundaras. How is the build quality since then? Did you have to replace it? Just wondering what’s people experience with the sundaes build quality and driver quality are.

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Just wondering what’s people experience with the sundaes build quality and driver quality are.

I know this is just a typo but the Hifiman Sundae has a nice ring to it.

I’ve had two Sundaras and the first started to exhibit some channel imbalance so I exchanged for a new pair which performed admirably. Everything started in @Resolve’s review about the recent revision is true.

That’s what my HE-560s did before one driver blew. They required more and more and more amp power to generate the same volume. I think the standard failure path for HiFiMan involves the progressive cracking of the circuits as the membranes vibrate.

Per the original question, my HE-560s were always a bit grainy/diffuse from the very start. I actually liked that about them.

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I have owned mine for a couple of months now. They replaced the Senns HD650. I am running them from my MojoPoly and have no complaints whatsoever. Fully agree with @Resolve’s review. Great value and very flexible in terms of genres. Listening to pop, rock, indie, electronica, jazz, acoustic, live. Everything’s fine. They’re also very comfortable cans. Enjoy!

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Yikes, that sounds bad. I decided to not let it get to that point I actually have another pair on the way as I like them so much.

I’ve only had mine for a couple of months. They’ve seen very light usage. Sound is perfect but the size adjustment mechanism has gotten very sticky at the smaller sizes and doesn’t “click” into place. @Chrono said in his review that he was concerned about the build quality in this part of the headband and he was right.

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Even worse, the same headband’s on the $1,800 HE6se.

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So I’ve been listening to my (3rd) replacement pair and within a few hours use the drivers have started to fail. Weird distortion in the bass slowly spreading to all frequency ranges and decreased volume output. 2 out of 3 defective pairs is not a good sign for me. I’ve arranged for a replacement to be shipped via Amazon, but I’m starting to lose faith in the brand. If the replacement pair does not perform, I may give the Senn HD560s a shot. Makes me a bit sad, because when the Sundara works, it’s fantastic.

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