Hifiman Sundara Open-Back Planar Magnetic Headphones - Official Thread

Pretty disappointed by the Mojo 2 + Sundara combo. I figured it would be enough power based on specs and reviews and while the Mojo 2 can make the Sundara plenty loud, it sounds like a lot transient detail is getting lost, dynamics are lame, and soundstage is relatively small. Mojo 2 into desktop amps* (even just a Schiit Heresy) is a significant step up in sound quality.

Comparing the Mojo 2 to other high-end DACs, the Mojo 2 is practically indistinguishable so I think it’s a great DAC - but I was hoping for a simple all-in-one battery powered solution for using Sundaras away from my studio.

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IN OTHER NEWS

I purchased a backup pair for the studio / for attended mix sessions and I’m happy to report that the 2022 Sundara I received (directly from HiFiMan) sounds more or less identical to the 2020 Sundara I purchased two years ago. The pads on the 2022 Sundara are actually a little more comfortable than the replacement pads I have on my 2020 pair which I also got directly from HiFiMan - I remember the original 2020 pads being more comfortable than the replacement pads too so maybe replacement pads are just a little different? Who knows.

INTERESTINGLY the 2022 Sundara is slightly more efficient than the 2020 Sundara. I was hoping to use the Mojo 2’s dual outputs to listen with my partner but we noticed that the new pair was always about two or three clicks louder than the old pair. I confirmed using another dac/amp that the new 2022 Sundara was a little louder all other things equal.

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I’ve had my Sundara’s (2021) now for a few months, and I am blown away by the sound quality. It just sounds so rich and accurate.

I’ve been pairing the Sundara with the FiiO e10k, and have been happy with the volume levels the little dacp/amp can produce on both my PC and phone. I’ve been looking at the Topping DX3 pro+ as un upgrade to the e10k. I know the dx3 pro+ is a much more feature rich desktop amp, but how much of an upgrade would this be sound quality wise (soundstage, tonal quality, resolution, etc)?

The e10k already gets loud enough, so purely for the amp part I feel the dx3 pro+ would not be necessary. That leaves the DAC part, where the better chip and DSP could make the sound better.

Does anyone know if the HiFiman Sundara will be upgraded to the Stealth drivers soon?

what a beautifully written review, every part of it so coherent to read! I wonder if you gave the Sundara a try in the studio and if you would consider it for that purpose at all. Would you say it’s neutral/analytical enough for production work?

I’m with you on the Sundara. In spite of all the love it gets, I also found it too treble forward and hot for my ears. Mine gets 0 usage time, I should probably just sell it.

I’ve moved on to other headphones in any case though… Rosson RAD-0 is my current planar love :+1: :smile:

Just posting some new measurements from the B&K 5128

Raw

Compensated

For those unaware, there’s an air gap between the driver and the housing on the Sundara, which gives it a subtle bass boost compared to other open-back planars. The tradeoff is that you lose sub-bass at 20hz due to the dropoff below the resonance frequency (Fs).

When sealing up the driver gap but putty (Funtak here in Canada), it drops the bass boost and provides extension all the way down. I don’t recommend doing this, since perceptually it’ll sound like there’s more bass if you just leave it open. But it is the explanation and conclusion to the curious case of the Sundara’s missing sub-bass below 30hz.

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@Resolve how can I see Sundara on your new preference bounds curve ?

Can you share pls

Just to be clear, the preference bounds is not a new ‘curve’. It’s just a different way of showing the same data.

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This is still showing ‘curve’. I didn’t mention the T-word :slight_smile:

Thanks for sharing !

Hey guys!

The right side of my Sundaras has a rattling noise that can be caused by slight movements of my head, lightly tapping/pushing on the frame, and certain parts in songs. When playing music, it used to only happen with bass, but now there is a bunch of random parts in songs that cause it.

It first happened when I was playing a bass heavy song around two months ago, but it went away for a bit and now it came back around a week ago. When it came back, it didn’t happen while I was using them; I just put them on one day and it was there.

I’ve read some things about the pads causing crinkling noises, so I switched the left and right pads around, but it remained on the right side. I also saw a post about screws being loose, but after tightening/loosening them to many different levels, it was still there.

The only ideas I have left are that a hair might be in the driver, the driver is damaged, or there is something loose on side of the driver that is facing the grill (which is really hard to access). I can’t see a hair anywhere but of course one might still be there. I found a bunch of posts about similar things on Reddit, but it seems like most of their problems are only either while music is playing or no music is playing, not both.

would love to see how 3 different pairs compare - I have 3 pairs of Sundaras that all sound noticeably and meaningfully different from one another

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Um, ok, I had no idea that there was ‘variety’. When I first got my Sundara (sanskrit for ‘beautiful treble spike’) it was just screeeeeamin’ at somewhere like 12.5K. Like i could hear all this detailed stuff I have never ever heard before. It was odd, a bit scary, but also kind of cool. But mostly it was just super noticeably annoying. I am pretty sure that it has calmed down since then, but I have a 3 EQ thingy in which your choices are Bass, Midrange, and Treble (it kind of reminds me of one of those old stereo systems where you just turned a knob) and I set them like this:
Bass: +1.6
Midrange: +2.0
Treble: -.6

I like using that EQ because I think they are like smooth shelves instead of drastic small changes.

Just that little bit less of treble calmed down things to the point where it was a little less noticeable.

Part of the reason I bought the Sundara was for bass, and yes there is some seriously impressive bass in the way down low rider arena. But my headphone has this super interesting issue that I have never heard before. It has a ‘ghost’ range in the bass. It’s somewhere around right where the 6XX sounds its absolute slight punchy best in the bass range. Somewhere between 90 and 120hz, I could find out exactly where it is happening. But it’s like there is bass, and then when the bass sounds the ‘frequency that has the issue’ there is just nothing there. It’s as if the bottom just drops out of it completely. It is odd. And I have not been able to fix that. Not with EQ or anything. And let me tell you it totally bums me out. And here is why… because this is the first planar magnetic headphone I have ever owned and it massively blows me away. I have never ever heard music sound SO AMAZING! Even the midrange I was able to bring back the life/recessed vocals a bit with the +2.0 shelf boost and pretty much the whole friggin’ thing is just poppin’. But now the whole reason I am looking to upgrade is because of that one area in the bass that just ‘ghosts’. It sounds so unnatural and out of place. Especially since there is mucho carnivorous bass meat in the frequencies below that, and above that. It’s as if you have one note on your upright bass that is either broken or won’t sound right. It’s an odd phenomenon because it’s just ‘gone’, like it becomes invisible, aurally.
So I guess then my question is: Does the HE1000 Stealth also do this? Do they all do this? Because as I started to analyze more (looking at more detailed frequency response graphs), I noticed that so many of them have that weird 11-13K thing going on up there (I analyzed my hearing and I can easily hear up to 14K loud and clear). And the way I hear frequencies together I like to think of it kind of like an otter or seal or dolphin or shark in the ocean. Everything is either right at the surface of the ocean or it is ‘surfacing above’ and now you can see it (hear it). That 12.5K peak is like a sharp swordfish or something and it becomes the loudest part of the frequency spectrum that I hear (without EQ, but even with, it’s still kind of there). I would imagine most people can hear it.

However, aside from that I find the Sundara mind blowing. The only things I would change are:
1.It seems like they chose ‘instruments over vocals’ in the 2K midrange area, because no matter what I do the voices sound more relaxed than the instruments. And don’t get me wrong, this is not always bad. On some tracks/songs it balances things out so that the voice/s are not so much louder than the background instruments. But to me, compared to the 6XX, it does not sound right/correct/realistic.
2. Mainly just the one super high treble spike somewhere around 12.5K, but yeah, the treble in general is pretty fricking bright (Coincidentally the supersonic high dog whistle thing, it kind of reminds me of one those old CRT television/computer monitors where you would get a ‘stuck on pixel’). I mean when I go back and forth from the 6XX it’s like oh wow, the 6XX is seriously ‘missing information’ in the treble. Honestly, Sundara treble just makes 6XX treble sound like some 1984 called and wants its muffly boombox heard from a few blocks away. The treble on Sundara is actually intensely incredible. Frigging trumpets especially, it’s like oh yeah, that sounds like a flippin’ trumpet blowing high notes right in my ear. It can be very spectacular. Same with like a hard snare drum hit.
3. The ‘ghost note’ frequency in the bass. That ‘ghost’ seriously needs some of ‘your mom’s meatloaf’. I adore bass, and Sundara has some kiiiiller bass, that is fletchin’ deep, and clear, and detailed, and lovely. But then that one note, or right around that range, it just fricken’ ‘ghosts’. Whyyyyyyyyyyy? Dadddy wants to knowwwwww.

Other than that, Sundara is absolute heaven with/for music. It’s the best I’ve ever heard, but I guess I don’t get out that much, because I want to hear something even better now.

For me Sundara is the ‘gateway treble spike’.

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