Don’t be too sad, the originals sound great also!
3 Likes
I’m fine, but it’s bad for you to know that there is a new version with a more balanced sound and with apparently more reliable drivers, and end up receiving the old version. 
If the revision is mostly the pads (which most people seem to believe is the main part), could you order replacement hifiman pads for the sundara? I guess that’s contingent on the supplier having new stock, but I have not heard if the replacement pads from hifiman are also the revision pads or the older style.
1 Like
In the future you could always just get the new pads, maybe you’ll end up wanting to replace the pads at some point anyway.
3 Likes
Yes you might want the new pad and you might want it sooner than later. I just noticed that my (older) pad have visibly flattened in 16 or so months but don’t be discouraged by this, it’s mostly due, in my case at least, to frequent use. I own many phones most quite more expensive than the Sundara but this one is by far the best value I have ever had the pleasure of using, and I had paid the full $500US introductory price for them, which imho they are worth. At today’s price it’s a steal. The Sundara was a welcome surprise after my so-so experience with the 400i, which was built the “old” way with lots of plastic parts. The Sundara, on the other hand, is built much like a single-ended version of the HE-6se would be built, only much more efficient than the original. As far as I can tell it is free of noticeable design flaws and arguably the best designed Hifiman model to date.
3 Likes
I received a pair on Thursday. Packaging was intact and pristine. No sign of damage in transit.
These headphones have ZERO high end. (not much better than a 3khz telephone circuit).
And the low-end is not well defined; possibly volume-compressing at higher levels on the lower notes?
I have had the opportunity to listen to the original Orpheus a few times, as well as Stax 009s. I didn’t expect that level of performance for $350. BUT, I expected better than a voice-circuit phone line.
I wondered if my ears had gone bad. I compared against Shure 535, which sounded ok. I even have an old pair of Sony MDR-M55. THOSE ANCIENT cans sound better than the brand new Sundara.
Perhaps I received a factory error of some sort? I’ve sent in an E-mail to ask to return them. Haven’t received a response yet. Caveat Emptor.
1 Like
I received my Sundara (brand new) last Tuesday and after almost a week of listening / burning, today I can already give an opinion on them. Most likely my unit is not a stealph revison, as this lot from my country’s dealer is from December 2018. I already had the HE560 V3 so I will try to talk about the differences between these two headphones as well.
In physical aspects it is notable that the headband of the he560 was more rigid / firm and without noise, compared to the headband of Sundara. However it has the same design and finish taking the different colors.
In the first song at Sundara I noticed a peak in the treble. I continued listening and after about 3 hours of listening to Sundara, those peaks disappeared.
I will be brief about the sound quality. Today I can say that it is a well balanced phone, but with a tendency to be brighter despite not having those peaks in the treble anymore. To my ears, they sound with musical presentation, very airy, fast and with good detail. In the bass it has a good punch, but for my preferences I could have a little more weight in the sub-bass, to give more “ground”. The mediums seemed to me to be well balanced and melodious. And in the treble they sound brighter, with a good extension, detailed and don’t sound piercing.
As I no longer have the he560 I will have to talk about it from memory, which is not ideal, but in general aspects I can remember some differences. The He560 was much more difficult to amplify, very annoying with synegia to play well. Sundara needs amplification, but much less to play well, and it is not so difficult with synergy. I remember that the He560 had less mid-bass, but it had more sub-bass and depth than Sundara (as long as it was well amplified). At middleweight, the He560 was more forward and seemed to have more details (maybe). And in the treble I remember that the he560 had more treble and sounded more tiring after a long time of listening. Spatiality Sundara does much better, more open and airy, but the he560 had more depth.
The sound signature of Sundara pleases me much more than the he560 and taking into account the difficulty I had in finding a good synergy of amp / dac. Another thing that I found interesting at Sundara is that even at moderate volumes he presents the music in a complete way, with good dynamics and detail. In he560 I had to open the volume well to have that feeling of full music and good dynamics. I really liked Sundara, and I didn’t expect him to surprise me, I just hope he won’t break in the next few months.
(The best synergies I tried with the he560 were Chord Mojo, Chord Hugo1 and Drop + THX AAA 789. Sundara, on the other hand, is testing with Schiit Jotunheim, Schiit Fulla and the Meizu Hifi Pro dongle. Jotunheim does a little better, but the biggest surprise was seeing a dongle played Sundara very well.)
(sorry for bad English! I’m not a native speaker of that language)
4 Likes
That sounds like something is broken. Or not being driven properly? I normally imagine everyone is using an amp of some kind but you never know haha. What source are you using?
Looking at those pads, they do indeed look like the older ones. Notice how the fabric part is flush with the leather and doesn’t have the leather portion bulging out at all. From memory, that’s the old style pad. Still great sound from that one, but in the future it might be good to look into some new pads?
1 Like
Yes, it was the first thing I did when my Sundara arrived, compare it with your kkkk. I already sent an email to hifiman asking to confirm that mine is an old version and if I could buy the new pattern of pads.
Anyway, I already bought new pads (model 105mm, Aliexpress), which seem to be good options for the old version. Follow the link…
1 Like
Those look pretty thick. I’d worry about them changing the sound a bit. But let us know how they sound when they show up. Pad swaps can be very interesting.
1 Like
Earpads can really affect the sound signature of a headset. I found it interesting that they were thicker because in Sundara’s review on Oluv’s Gadgets (he didn’t even like Sundara), he suggests that thicker earspads might take all those peaks off the phone and leave it with a more natural sound.
As soon as I arrive I post my impressions
2 Likes
Hello Andrew:
Normal source is Audio-GD DAC/headphone amp.
I also tried an LG V20 phone, which touts having a quad-dac audio system. Same results.
Bob
I agree with Resolve that something might be wrong with your Sundaras because what you describe, I have never heard or seen anyone describe them like you do. You may want to replace them. One of the reasons I don’t buy phones online is there seems to be a high ratio of defective goods up there.
Hey, so the forum and headphones.com are kept separate as much as possible. I do know that due to the lockdowns and work from home, that the Headphones.com folks are trying to catch up with all the incoming requests as best they can. Be patient I’m sure they will accommodate you as best they can.
Make sure you email them directly or chat via there online chat on their website if one of them is online for questions (unknown if they are online for chat though with this current setup)
6 Likes
I found with my Sundaras that they took a very long time to break in, and they sounded very, very different once they did. I was a little lukewarm about them at first, but now I’m head over heels in love with them. HiFiman suggests 150 hours, and I think it was probably more than that for mine to wake up fully. Right now I’m listening to some Bach violin concertos that I ripped from an LP, with the sound coming from my MacBook Pro using Audirvana and the Goodhertz plugins CanOpener Studio and Mid-Side (what magical things they do!), and through a P.S. Audio Gain Cell DAC/preamp/headphone amp. It is, without a doubt, the best headphone sound I’ve ever heard or even imagined hearing. Pure magic.
4 Likes
Pretty bold choice using PSAudio GC DAC as basis for (I assume) a desktop system. I have the same setup. And my Sundara’s are on their way here – replacing Sennheiser HD600. Your review gives me encouragement that my Sundara investment might be well spent. OK, so what the heck is all that software? Audirvana I know. What is “Goodhertz plugins CanOpener Studio and Mid-Side?” Are they Audirvana plug-ins? So they are additions to what Audirvana does? Soundstage stuff?
Hoyt,
The Goodhertz products are plugins that work with Audirvana and provide crossfeed soundstaging, balance control, tone controls, (basic ones) and a lot of other stuff you probably never heard of (I hadn’t). I’m using the AU variant on my MacBook Pro, but they come in a variety of other versions, too, if you’re on a different kind of system. Goodhertz products are designed for recording studios, and most of their plugins aren’t particularly useful for us headphone listeners, but the CanOpener and Mid/Side plugins really are—at least I find them so.
Each plugin has a a lot of controls covering every imaginable aspect of the sound, to the point where, when you first use them, it can be intimidating. But there are presets you can choose to get started, and there are posts on various headphone forums that offer users’ custom settings. Personally, I like having so much control available; I can save my current settings as a preset and then explore new ones for some variety. I can even create custom presets for different kinds of recordings that might need a little help in one area or another. For example, some 80s recordings tend to have the vocals buried in the mix, and I can tweak things to bring those forward. And each plugin has an On/Off switch in it, so you easily disengage the sound. That lets me confirm that I like what they’re doing and be sure I’m not losing anything along the way. Doing that, I find that, unlike other similar products I’ve tried, they seem transparent—I don’t feel like I lose any of the Audirvana mojo. To be sure, there are some recordings where I don’t like what the Goodhertz plugins are doing, so I just turn them off for those recordings and back on for the ones where I do like it.
They offer a free trial, so you can see if you like what they do (I realize they’re probably not going to be for everybody). That’s what I did, and after using them for a couple of weeks, when the trial period ended, I found I really missed what they were doing, so I bought them. The CanOpener alone is really nice, but the Mid/Side plugin really adds a lot. And if you do a YouTube review of the products during the trial, they’ll give you 50% off the purchase price. Again, these won’t be for everybody, but for me they make music more engaging and more moving.
2 Likes
Hello! I’m new to the Headphone.com forums. I just wanted to add a quick note saying that this was the review I posted originally on Reddit. Since my original posting on Reddit, I have edited some parts just to make it a bit clearer.
Also, I will preface this by adding that this review pertains to the latest revision of the Sundara. Compared to when I first tried the Sundara a couple of months back, the bass here is a lot more present and linear in its presentation. The mids on this revision are also smoother than on the original. Overall I would say this makes the Sundara a much more attractive option, specially since its price is now $349.
Introduction
I have never written a headphone review, or any review for that matter, really. However, after trying out these HiFiMan Sundara’s, I felt compelled to share my thoughts on how these perform. In this review I will be going over the Sundara’s power requirements, build quality, comfort, technical performance, tonality, and EQ. Before I begin, I should point out that my listening consisted of a wide variety of genres played from Tidal Streaming Service (HiFi and “Master” Quality) through a JDS Labs Element II (Amp/DAC combo).
DISCLAIMERS: Audio is a very subjective topic, we all hear things slightly differently, and we all have tastes and preferences to how music should sound. My goal in this review is to give those who are interested in the headphone I am describing an overall idea of the kind of performance they can expect should they buy it themselves. I would also like to point out that no one is influencing what I say about these headphones, I purchased these myself from an online retailer and have no actual obligation to write this review.
Power Requirements
First up is power requirements, for which HiFiMan’s advertisement is quite misleading. They tout the Sundara as a portable headphone, and with a low 37 ohm impedance I would not blame you for thinking that they are a portable set at first; after all, the included cable even has a right-angle termination. Yet, I would contest that, no, the Sundara are not portable. This makes more sense once you look at their sensitivity, which is 94dB. From my experience, these have been more difficult to drive than the Beyerdynamic DT-1990 Pro, and the Sennheiser HD 660S–its main competitors. Therefore, yes, these most definitely require an amplifier.
Build and Comfort
Now on to build quality and comfort. I gotta say that for a HiFiMan product, I am mostly impressed. Strong metal components make up the bulk of the Sundara’s construction, and it is also well-assembled. The pieces housing the expansion mechanism are made of plastic, but they feel very solid and do not creak. On my unit, these pieces have some printing errors (it’s hard to see in the picture, but the “HiFiMan” text has a little smearing) but that is only cosmetic and does not affect performance in any way. Overall, the build is solid, but it does have two design flaws that I think are worthy of attention.
The first one is the way the expansion works. While it does a good job at defining each expansion step, the way it locks into place actually scratches the paint on the inside of the yokes where the dot markers are; once you get the right fit, I would recommend not adjusting the headband too often. The second flaw–and it is a big one–is that for whatever reason, the headphone has no cup swivel at all. This is a pretty big deal as it might prevent some users from getting a good seal, or getting the headphones to sit comfortably.
Despite the lack of swivel, I must admit that the Sundara’s comfort is superb. The clamp force feels just right, not tight enough to hurt you, but not loose enough to where they will fall if you move your head. The ear-pads HiFiMan used here greatly contribute to that comfort. They are pleather on the outer sides but velour-like on the inside. The pads use a very comfortable foam, and they have a very slight angle to them, which makes them thinner at the front–probably done to fit better on your head and compensate for the lack of swivel. Additionally, their lightweight 372g build is very evenly distributed by the suspension headband and ear cups. As long as you can get a good fit with these, I am confident that you will be able to wear them comfortably for hours on end.
Sound
Bass
The bass on the Sundara is fast, and very well extended all the way down to 20hz (very characteristic of planar magnetic headphones). Surprisingly enough, it actually has great dynamics as well. The Sundara is a rather punchy planar magnetic headphone that competes very well against dynamic driver headphones in its price point and even some above it. It has the extension, definition, and slam that I want to hear in my music. In this department, the Sundara outperforms the Sennheiser HD 6XX and and HD 660S by a long-shot. It comes close in its slam to the Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro, but is better extended, so whether you prefer the greater punch of the DT’s or the more linear extension of the Sundara is completely up to you. Overall, the bass of the Sundara performs great across all genres I listened to; it had the dynamics to keep up with modern genres, and the accuracy necessary to bring out all the nuances in this region below 200hz.
Mids
The mids on the Sundara are good, but not outstanding. To me, they sound very present, neutral and uncolored, but I do think that they do have a bit more grain in this area than in the other sections of the frequency response. I should mention that when compared to the DT 1990 Pro and HD 660S, they lose out in both timbre and detail retrieval, but only by a bit.
Highs
The Sundara’s highs shine almost as much as the bass. The Sundara’s highs are amazing for the price point. Of all the headphones under $500 that I have tried, the Sundara has the most detailed and tonally correct highs. They are slightly bright, but they are never fatiguing or sibilant in the way that the DT 1990 Pro’s are. While the air qualities above 10k sound slightly muted to me, the Sundara still extends well into the frequencies above 10k, more so than the HD 660S and DT 1990 Pro.
Sound Stage and Imaging
The sound stage is pretty good, but I think it is fairly average among headphones under $500. I would describe it as significantly wider than the Sennheiser 600-series, but not as wide as the DT 1990 Pro. The Sundara has a very good left, right, front left, and front right image, but has a little bit less of a center image. In imaging it once again outpaces the Sennehiser headphones, but falls behind the DT 1990 Pro. However, in image distinction the Sundara has a significant advantage, as its instrument separation is far better than that of its competition, even when busy passages are being played in the music.
EQ
It is very likely that most people are not interested in trying out different EQ profiles for their headphones, but I personally think that it is a great way of getting what are already amazing headphones to sound even better, or correcting problematic areas in their frequency response. I think the Sundara comes right out of the box with a nearly-perfect tonality that nearly matches the Harman Target almost perfectly (with the exception of the bass and a dip around 2k). However, my personal target response curve is slightly warmer so I like to lower the region between 3k and 5k by 2dB, lower 7k by 2dB, boost 2k by 2dB and give it a bass shelf of 1.5dB at 100z. In reality, it is basically /u/metal571 's EQ with slightly lower mids, but I think gives the Sundara a nice warm tone with a slihgtly more natural timbre.
If you would like to try out this EQ, here is what the preset looks like:
Low Shelf at 100hz +1.5dB, Q value of 0.7
Peak at 2000hz +2dB, Q value of 1.41
Peak at 3500hz -2dB, Q value of 2.5
Peak at 7000hz -2dB, Q value of 2
Conclusion
The HiFiMan Sundara ($349) is a well-built headphone that has a very agreeable tonality and a very well-balanced frequency response that make it suitable for a plethora of genres without really needing EQ. Its frequency response aligns very closely with the Harman Target Response Curve, and also comes very close to my personal target curve (has a slightly warmer tilt). I think you would have a really hard time finding a better deal for under $500, a price range which I believe the Sundara’s performance slightly surpasses.
14 Likes