I second @ProfFalkin’s suggestion of the Asgard 3 with the Multibit DAC option. I bought one for my son, who has limited deskspace, and I’m testing it out in the weeks before Christmas. It does have a lusher mid range sound than my Lyr 3. It sounds very good with the built in DAC, but scales amazingly well with a better external DAC like the Bifrost 2, so that gives you a future upgrade path too.
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That image is the very definition of stacking :). Would you say there is perceivable benefit going separate dac (schiit for e. g. ) + Asgard 3 vs Asgard 3 with internal Dac card (ak4490/multibit) for Ethers or Andromedas?
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Thanks, Asgard- that’s something new for me to consider then. I think I was lured by what people had said about tubes and the smoother lush/rich mid range effect it gives so I went searching that direction. Sonically, I am happy with the level of detail the Ethers produce throughout the range, it’s very precise, even more than Andromedas (which are already great) but something about the Andromeda Dragonfly red combo makes it sound really nice together. What I’m trying to achieve with the Ether is to slap it on my head and get a very smooth/rich sound particularly for vocals. I’m not good at describing sound so hopefully I got the message across!
For any headphone with the Asgard 3, the Bifrost 2 is better than either internal card. I’d argue quite a bit better. It’s not that any of the internal modules I’ve tried have sounded bad, mind you, but the Bifrost is just a special piece of kit.
If desk space is the concern, and you have more room vertically than horizontally, then yes. If budget allows, stack 'em.
I’ve been particularly pleased with Asgard 3 in that regard.
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Thank you. I shall explore this when I get a chance to A/B some headphones.
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How common are channel imbalance issues on the Flow 2 Closed?
I’ve listened to them both unbalanced and balanced through a ZEN CAN and Micro iDSD Signature and think my set has developed something. I swear that one side seems quieter than the other right. It’s more prevalent at certain volumes and it’s been bugging me to the point of where I had people double-check if I was crazy or not.
Sue already got back to me and said they would repair it, so I’ll be sending it in this week. Always heard good things about DCA’s customer service and glad I get to experience it for myself.
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I’ve had reasonable luck using a smartphone dB meter to roughly check output levels. Play white noise or pink noise and then put the phone in the headphone cup. Use the same position and pressure on both sides. The volume should be the same.
In some cases sudden volume differences follow from a partly detached cable or the jack not fitting into the amp socket. For me this most often happens with 3.5 mm jacks and mobile devices.
In the worst case you have a failing driver (it has happened to me).
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Generally channel imbalances with them aren’t actually caused by the drivers but actually because of the pads. It has something to do with the memory foam used in them.
But they’re service is great and Sue gets things turned around quickly so definitely no need to worry there!
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G’day ProfFalkin, so I’ve been reading and reading as the sole supplier of schiit products in my country is not open for auditions yet since lockdown mid 2020. What’s your view on Modius vs Bifrost 2 pairing with Asgard 3? My only concern is if my old Nad d1050 ($550 at the time) as a dac would sound better than Modius. Not saying price is a reliable indicator especially when I read dac/amps had improved heaps since.
For amp, I am firmly looking at Asgard 3 due to the recommendations and a much more palatable price point ($530 amp only). I am wondering if Bifrost 2 ($1600, very pricey here compared to US) would add that much value over Modius because my audio collection isn’t of the highest quality (flacs to mp3, variable recording quality). An internal MB dac card is more space friendly but I could accommodate a vertical stack for future scalability.
For amp, I think I will give up on Lyr3 ($1150 amp only) for SS stack build, hard choice vs Asgard 3 but the latter seems better value. Perhaps saving up and going tubes in future like Woo audio amp is a better decision as opposed to hybrid.
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With what headphones are you looking to pair an amp with? It’s difficult to make a good recommendation without knowing. Also, what kind of changes or improvements are you looking to get from the sound vs what you have now?
I haven’t heard Modius, so I can’t say for sure how the two compare. I also have not heard the NAD so, again, I can’t speak on the subject. Sorry friend, I wish I could help.
To be clear about my statements regarding the DAC cards you can put into the Schiit amps - I’ve had their AKM and Multibit cards in Jotunheim and Lyr 3, and both sound good. Neither one commits any sins, they just differ in staging and tone a bit.
I think Bifrost 2 is truly special though, as it sounds much closer to their higher end offerings like Yggy than it does with the lower end DACs like Modi. Here in the States, that makes it an exceptional value. It seems that may not be as true elsewhere.
My general advice is always find the headphone that best suits you, then focus on the amp, then the DAC. If I were in your shoes, I would use the NAD as a DAC and try to find the best amp your budget allows that matches and synergizes with your headphone. You can fine tune the sound with the DAC after that.
Edits:
Generally, I like the Asgard 3. It surprised me with its softer touch and more organic sound. It should pair well with any headphone that’s not already too gooey / warm / thick. The Lyr and Jotunheim are both more immediate and energetic. So, it depends on which headphone you are going to use.
I wouldn’t suggest Jotunheim with a bright headphone like most Beyerdynamics, but the Asgard would do well. Similarly, a headphone like the AQ Nightowl would be much better served on Jotunheim to bring the energy out of it.
Lyr 3 is kind of an oddball, and I’d like to say it sits in between the Jotunheim and Asgard in this respect, but honestly it depends on the tube you run in it. I had a few “holy crap that’s shrill” moments with the Lyr and bright tubes, but I’ve also had some “where did the cymbals go” experiences with rolled off tubes too. A Soviet era Foton tube or a Westinghouse Reliatron D-Getter were both fairly balanced, and are usually what I suggest.
Don’t sleep on hybrids just because they aren’t a “pure tube” topology. Hybrids offer many benefits. They have a benefit of being (generally) more present in frequencies OTL amps struggle with, namely bass accuracy and slam. They can convey a much better sound stage and more natural tone than solid state amps. They usually need only 1 or 2 tubes instead of 4 or 5… or 7… or 10. The ECP T4 is a hybrid, and one of my favorite amps.
I hope that helps. Cheers
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Thanks for the insight. Mrspeakers Ether (red originals) was the primary motivator to look for a matching amp and dac and it seems Schiit was the most popular match. Since this thread, I have also ordered a pair of Focal Clear Pros which was conveniently on sale so now I have two contenders! These are most likely as far as I’ll go for budget wise (and both were obtained at around 40% off rrp).
Lyr3 with internal MB dac was my first choice but Asgard seems very promising value for relatively similar performance at a lower price point. On its own, Lyr3 is $1150 (850 USD) and with MB dac is $1600 (1185 USD). Asgard on its own, $530 (395 USD) and with MB dac is $1050 (780 USD). Bifrost 2 is $1600 (1185 USD). Due to local price mark ups on top, it colours the value x performance a bit compared to list prices from Schitt HQ including international shipping/taxes.
I’ll go with Asgard 3 and pair it with the Nad d1050 first as you suggested. I take the Asgard 3 external amp would best the internal op amps of the Nad in terms of overall enjoyment (or that I’ll learn to appreciate what I have more and sell the shiny new device at a low price to make someone local happy). Giving up on Lyr3 because I don’t know what I’m doing (prob spend heaps on tubes before finding the right ones), I would probably benefit more from stacking the Asgard 3 with Bifrost 2, also love the aesthetics as shown in your stack. Buying Bifrost 2 directly from Schiit HQ is around $1000 after taxes/shipping vs $1600 local but Schiit reliability/failure chance despite the 5 year warranty confidence makes me hesitant in case of general failure.
For US price of Bifrost 2 at 700 USD/$1000 here, I’ll snap it up in a heartbeat… ($600 here is a lot of gear or about 50 roast chicken dinners over a year!).
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I’m guessing from the exchange rate you listed that you’re in Australia. Assuming that’s true, is there a reason you decided against the Burson Conductor you listed in an earlier post? I’d imagine you would get better value for money from something domestically made.
Or if you just want an amp, the Soloist has had some good reviews recently on this forum. My Soloist is on route to the US, so I should be able to compare it to a Lyr 3 and Asgard 3 when it arrives.
G’day mate (yes your guess is right). The direction had changed focus to Schiit only because of impressions on synergy with the Ethers but if we’re saying Burson is also a good contender, then there’s no reason for me to dismiss it. Normally the deciding factor after considering other people’s experiences is to go have a listen but that’s out the window probably for a good half of next year. Audio gear shops here don’t see the need to hurry to return to demoing during these times supposedly due to potential health risk (relatively low in Aus at the moment) but business is actually good with more people working from home.
Burson is in fact very good value over here too. I’ve seen Black Friday sale with 20% or so off the Reference series but didn’t press the button because I had no source pointing it’s a good fit with what I’ve got (though somewhat confident it would be better overall than nad d1050 which is good but not great). Text and video impressions of Burson is good in general but they had different headphones which I don’t have experience with. I did hesitate out of sheer ignorance/generalisation that maybe integrated dac/op amps don’t perform as well as discrete amps at similar price points. Maybe this came from building pcs where size sometimes matter.
I’m posting this suggestion to my fellow Mr. Speakers / Dan Clark Audio owners. The ZMF Headphones co-pilot headband greatly improve DCA headphone comfort. Works great on ZMF cans too. Worth a look.
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My Flow 2 should be arriving at DCA today or tomorrow…hope all is good and my channel imbalance is either just…
A: me being crazy with my hearing
B: an issue with the memory foam on the pads
Hope it isn’t a driver issue. Crossing fingers!
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Got this surprise in my inbox today.
Huge shout-out to Sue and the rest of the team at DCA for excellent service!
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Dan Clark has a new ÆON 2 called the Noire. Just saw it on their site today and didn’t see anyone reference it yet. I’ll be anxious to find out how they compare to the ÆON 2 Closed other than color.
“ÆON 2 Noire is the latest edition of our award-winning ÆON 2 Closed headphone. Featuring a bold metallic black paint ÆON 2 Noire sports a perforated ear-pad to deliver an all-new sound. In fact, ÆON 2 Noire’s tuning almost exactly aligns to the “Harmon Curve,” gently boosting bass and treble compared to ÆON 2 Closed. The result is a “lighter” sounding midrange and a soundstage that moves the “stage” a bit further from the listener for a wider and deeper space*”
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Yes I spoke to Andy this morning from DCA. He said that there were some minor tuning changes to the driver of the A2C to go along with it shipping with the Perforated pads.
I’ve seen quite a few people that I trust say the A2C & A2O are quite a bit better with the Perforated pads so excited to see how they sound! He let me know they are most likely going to start shipping next week.
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Looks like I’m going to need to grab some perforated pads for my flow 2 then!
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