Need advice on Audio Mixing/Audiophile headphones

Headphones General Headphone Discussion
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Hi…newbie here. I’m a full time music creator and audiophile. I’ve been using EQed Sennheiser HD 560s for years. Still, these are consumer grade and I’d really like to find some open back Studio grade HPs that everyone recognizes as great! I’ve auditioned several… ND30s (too dull), LCD-X (too heavy) and Hifiman XS (technical center balance issue). Nothing yet has “wowed” me. I’m definitely a Harman Curve enthusiast which is probably a bad thing when mixing music. However, most of the samples I work with don’t need a lot of equalization or compression to sound good. Therefore some kick-ass audiophile phones with nice soundstage and low end would probably be perfect. Any suggestions under 2k?

Thanks

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The Dan Clark E3 comes to mind. Very close to the Harman curve. It’s a bit over 2K, but dealers often have open box sales. If you join Dan Clarks website, he offers a discount as well.

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FYI, HD560S comes in both consumer and pro versions. The pro version is the HD400 Pro. So I guess Sennheiser thought the product was good enough that both types of users might like it. (I am not recommending the HD400 Pro btw, because it appears to be basically the same as the HD560S. So it probably wouldn’t be an upgrade.)

Which version of the HD560S do you have though, the pre-2022 with 3 meter cable, or post-2022 version with the shorter 1.8 meter? There are some subtle, but meaningful differences between the two that could, for example, affect how you EQ them.

This is something I struggle with a bit, because I have the more recent edition, and most of the good 5128 measurements were apparently done on the earlier edition with the longer cable. So I have to make kind of an educated guess at the headphone’s frequency response, by piecing together data from more than one type of rig, which is difficult.

I am honestly quite torn between the (post-2022) HD560S and HD550. Because they both seem like pretty good headphones if you can catch them on a discount. (Most vendors have the HD550 discounted to $200 at the moment, which is pretty good and what I paid.) I’ve had them both for about a month now, and still can’t decide between them, because there are things I like (and also dislike) about both… So I’m probably the wrong person to give advice on something that’s better.

Sonically, they are pretty similar in alot of ways. The main diferences are in the upper mids and treble. The 560S has more mids and the 550 has more treble. Both are in neutral territory though. And they both also take quite well to EQ. So what it might come down to is things like fit and comfort. Or possibly small differences in distortion, phase, and so forth, where it appears the HD550 might have a very slight edge (probably not audible to most listeners).

As far as other options are concerned, you might have a look at this video for some other ideas. The staff here probably indexes a little differently than your average CanJammer though. So always good to get some ideas and opinions from a few different sources.

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Have you looked into the new Sennheiser HD 480 Pro (closed-back) or the 490 Pro (open-back)? The 490 comes with two sets of pads, and the mixing pads will offer a “flatter” tuning, which may work well for your intended use case.

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Thanks… I’ve got the post-2022 560s version using the Squiglink H2019 EQ (more bass). I upgraded the cable to an XLR balanced one so I could take advantage of my Topping DX5 II’s multiple HP outs (I use K361s for vocal booth monitoring using the 1/4").

I’d probably like to venture away from Sennheisers now. The LCD-X’s sub bass really intrigued me. If it weren’t for their bulkiness and weight, I probably would have kept them. I did check out the video you referred to. The Hedd D1 looks good but I’m worried that it may be too slight of an upgrade for me. I also put in a “in stock” sales alert for the Focal Elex on Headphones.com since it’s in their “A Tier”, but I’m not sure it’ll become available? Good price though. The Edition XV is also a candidate but the Sundara and Edition XS just weren’t right for me.

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Yes I did, thanks. I actually came close to buying and testing them out. The “producer pad” tuning would probably be best for what I do. Nice lift in the lower bass region and the treble seems softer. I should probably look a little closer at both.

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Have you given the MM-500’s a listen? I’m waiting until I give the Hedd D1’s a try before picking those up as my open back studio headphones. Right now I use the Focal Lensys Pro (closed-back) as my mains in the studio… that’s mostly because I’m also an artist and they also work great for recording/tracking. The MM-500’s caught my attention, when I gave them a listen, but my curiosity about the D1 hasn’t allowed me to pull the trigger just yet.

The Focal Clear (OG) was also a great headphone for mixing, when I had them. If you haven’t already, maybe give those a try as well.

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There is a Youtube channel - Mixphones, which I highly suggest you explore. It is anchored by two professional audio mixing engineers, who do this daily, and have lost of commercial tracks mixed. They are not just some “Youtubers”, without proper experience and something to show for their assumed knowledge.

I am certain you will find lots of valuable information related to your request, on their channel.

Their suggestions are not inexpensive, and I would say - buyer beware, you still need to have your wits about you, to avoid spending too much.

I am listening to one of their videos, as I type this, and they also mention that the LCD-X is heavy, they definitely know their onions, very well, and are lovely to listen to - these two chaps, entertaining and knowledgeable. if possibly a bit biased, for good reasons, to the products they recommend. But I do find them relatively some of the most objective people on the planet, cos they are not really directly making money from the sales of any products, they recommend. (to the best of my knowledge) . They also do not hold back on products they do not like, such as all the Beyerdynamic headphones.

In general, my contribution would be :

  1. Listen to lots of MixPhone channel videos on Youtube.

  2. Consider planar magnetic headphones, which seem to deliver the best value, resolution, detail, for the price. Hifimans, are probably the most well known in the category below $500. If you wish to spend more than $1,000, consider a Dan Clarke - but many of these seem to be closed back - which was a huge surprise to me, yet some like the E3 seem to have a good reputation. Do audition the Fiio FT1 Pro, to get a taste of their flavour of planar magnetic, no complaints on the bass quantity, while with Hifimans, some tend to be bass shy.

    But all this is irrelevant, if you can correct any minor challenges, via EQ. Most of us will need to EQ, to bring any headphone closer to our own personal preferences, or to iron out any inconsistencies in our own personal hearing.

    On Hifimans, what comes to my mind immediately are :

    1. HE400SE Stealth
    2. Sundara
    3. XS
      4, Ananda Nano
    4. XV (released not too long ago)
    5. Any of the Hifiman unveiled, which seem to be the premium options, in each of their ranges. - But be careful cos its easy to damage them if poorly handled or stored away without the protective magnetic metal plates.

Moondrop also has some planars, worth considering.

Sites to check

  1. Squig.link, for Frequency response comparisons
  2. Headphone.com reviews
  3. AudioScienceReview.com reviews
  4. Unheardlab.com reviews - the Frequency responses are also published on squig.link, so you can compare them. https://sai.squig.link/
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In spite of all I said in the earlier post, about headphones, at this time I no longer use headphones. I use some budget IEMs, that I find in some ways, even more impressive, especially for the price, compared to headphones.

With headphones, I would expect to spend up to $500 for anything spectacular.

But with IEMs, in the budget Chinese IEM segment, there are some interesting opportunities. These products are below $50, sometimes, below $20, typically no more than $30.

Caveat, the cables and ear tips that are provided are their downside, so one needs to simply use better eartips and cables.

Here are the IEMs I would suggest you consider.

  1. KZ Vader Balanced (in the DDDD configuration) - Vaders have 3 dynamic drivers, per side, This is what I use, and I highly recommend it, and these are my current preferred IEMs.
  2. KZ Vader High Resolution
  3. KZ Vader Pro
  4. KZ AM16 Balanced or Bass - these have 8 B’s per side
  5. KZ Decet - these have 5 dynamic drivers per side
  6. CCA Polaris - This is a single driver IEM, which sounds great, not too extended in the high and low frequencies, which may be better to hear the most important frequencies, the mids.

CABLES

  1. CVJ VS 400 - copper cables. - get the 0.78 2 pin, modular, which comes with exchangeable 2.5mm balanced, 4.4mm balanced, and 3.5mm unbalanced.(if you need to connect to a 6.5mm unbalanced you can use a 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapter) - this is what I use

  2. Openheart 8 core silver coated cable - get the 0.78 2 pin, and choose whatever headphone connector option you prefer 3.5mm unbalanced or 4.4mm balanced - also an excellent cable, but the VS 400 sounds better, to me..

EARTIPS

  1. Sonicfoam SF1 (choose the size that fits your ear canal - S,M,L) - available via Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk and some other amazon sites. These deliver the best sound., can be a pain to get used to, but for critical listening, this is what I use.

  2. TriClarion - silicone - balanced

  3. Moondrop Springs silicone - slightly V-Shaped impact on frequency, boosting the low bass frequencies.

For about 80 dollars, you could get to sets of IEMs, suggest the Vader Balanced and the Decet, if I had to narrow it down to only two. And that cost includes the addition of some eartips and third party cables. See my suggestions above, and also highlights of what I use at this time.

Since I started using the KZ Vader Balanced, it has been a bit difficult to justify getting a headphone. I use them for critical listening and practicing piano (I use sampled pianos, played back via a computer/software plugins). The headphones sound super revealing, neutral, balanced, with only the slightest hint of a bass and treble boost. Nothing bombastic or fatiguing. Incredible value for money. A purchase one will never regret, and you can also use them for listening in all manner of settings., not just for mixing or checking mixes done on other headphones.

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Hey Jonathan, since you are a music creator and not necessarily fully devoted “mixing/mastering” engineer but you actually put music together on a DAW and mix it/master it for yourself, I think the recommendations can be a bit different.

My top picks for “composing” music in a DAW with headphones would be the HD800S and/or the MDR-MV1. The HD800S will give you the wow factor and the MV1 is easy to EQ with harman amounts of bass out of the box. Both are very comfortable, the HD800S much more so than the MV1.

Other options: If you want to move away from the HD480 Pro, Arya Stealth or HE1000SE with EQ might be great choices as well if you find them comfortable. The unicorn headphone that does it all does not exist lol, I thought it was a well amplified Susvara with EQ and it was not, not for composing at least… It was my favorite “audiophile” headphone for listening to music though, and I understood why so many people enjoy listening to music through them.

Some “healthy” considerations to keep in mind in this rabbit hole:

  • When you are putting music together on a DAW, you don’t need the most resolving headphones at all times, nor the fastest planar for checking the bass… you just need to be comfortable while listening to an agreeable frequency response of your samples and focus on your music. Honestly, the HD560 with EQ might already be giving you that.

  • No one cares what you use to make your music, no one. So use what works “for you.”

  • It is ok to have headphones for different tasks. A closed back for recording with a microphone and an open back for all the other things seems reasonable.

  • Using Tone Gen EQ can be more helpful than relying on AutoEQ.

I hope this helps!

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If you have the post-2022 HD560S, then I think you’re already ahead of the game. And probably have one of the better kept secrets in the lower-end market. There are some areas where I think the HD560S could still be improved though. So let’s talk a little about some of those. :slight_smile:

The frequency response, while relatively neutral, is a little uneven imo. The post-2022 version is a step up though in response from the pre-2022 version imo, based on the available graphs.

Like most other open dynamic headphones, the HD560S is rolled off in the sub-bass. That is one of the physical limitations of open dynamic designs, regrettably… There is some good news though. The post-2022 HD560S is probably a little better extended there than the pre-2022 version. And it is also better extened in the sub-bass than some of its more expensive brethren, like the HD600 and even the HD650. It is probably also lower in distortion in the sub-bass frequencies than these 6 series headphones, which means that more sub-bass can be added with some EQ. So if you need deeper sub-bass, the post-2022 HD560S may have a few advantages over some other classic dynamic headphones. (There are still limits though to how much boosting you can do in the sub-bass on any open dynamic headphone. And the HD560S is no exception.)

It is also a bit strident in the upper mids/low treble. Which gives the HD560S a somewhat more aggressive, in-your-face character. There is some good news here as well. Because the post-2022 version is better balanced there than the pre-2022 version imo. And it’s fairly easy to dial that stridency back a bit more with EQ.

The HD560S has a resonance at around 4 kHz. And it also has a peak in its distortion at the same frequency. This is part of the stridency I mentioned above, but it will also impart some sibilance as well… which probably sounds like a bad thing. But there’s a silver lining there as well. Because, by EQ-ing down the resonance, you’ll also reduce the audibility of the distortion in that range… which is a good thing. Better timbre plus also lower distortion.

The distortion is probably about average though on the HD560S for a lower cost headphone. And there are other headphones that have lower disortion across the board than the HD560S. So there is still some room for improvement there.

The treble on the HD560S is also a bit uneven. And a bit dark, and also sibilant in a couple spots. Isolating and correcting this is a bit more challenging, but it can be done with some good headphone frequency modeling imo. We are slightly impaired there by the fact that there are no good 5128 measurements currently available for the post-2022 version of the HD560S (that I’m aware of). All of the 5128 measurements that I’ve seen so far appear to be for the pre-2022 version. There are some workarounds for this. But it’s a disadvantage not to have some actual raw measurements done by some reliable graphers, like the folks here.

If you are doing critical listening, good measurements add value to your headphones or other transducers imo. Because they make it easier to compare the response of your headphones to other good products, with maybe an even better or more neutral response.

You might wonder why the HD560S has better extension and distortion in the sub-bass than some more expensive or well-known and regarded open dynamic models. Part of the answer to that is it uses a new driver design, which is part of the SYS line. The other answer may have something to do with the HD560S’s cups and baffles which are a bit more compact and enclosed than the 6 or 8 series Sennheisers.

While this may make it possible for the headphone to dig a bit deeper into the lower registers, the more compact/enclosed design also has some potential comfort and sound quality tradeoffs, like potentially worse breathability, a less open sound, and not as good pinna interaction. Headphones with larger and more open cups will give you a more open sound with better pinna interaction. And lower acoustic impedance, which may provide a little better consistency to the sound quality. And they may also breath and dissipate heat a little better.

The angled drivers and one-sided cable on the HD560S also have pros and cons imo. The angled drivers may contribute to the illusion of space a bit. But they also make it more difficult to test the symmetry of the headphone’s drivers by reversing the earcups from left to right. Single-sided cables that attach to only one earcup may be easier to manufacture and replace. And some people may prefer fewer wires in their way in a studio. On some headphones though, they may also result in a weight imbalance and contribute to symmetry issues. I haven’t noticed much of that on the HD560S. But this is a “convenience” feature (mostly for the headphone mfrs imo) that you’re more likely to find on lower-cost headphones than on the higher-end models. Probably for good reasons.

These are all areas where there’s some potential room for improvement in the HD560S’s performance imo.

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