If you want more of either, and be on M1, you’ll have to look at the MacBook Pro options. 16GB/2TB is the limit for the MacBook Air.
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Yes, that’s part of my question. It sounds as if a maxed out Air is just a bit weak. The Pro has better output ports. I was looking at the M1 Pro, just one step up from the base model. The stats I’ve seen don’t show a lot of benefit going beyond that.
I was less sure if ROON is happier with 32Gb of RAM, or if it’s overkill. And less sure if 2TB is enough, particularly if I run Parallels (and need to keep a Windows system in addition to the MacOS). Also, I think VMware is planning to compete with Parallels as they do on Intel Macs.
Really, if I get the OK from work that I’d be compliant on a virtual machine (Parallels) then I think I want to consolidate my limited work Windows needs to that and run ROON (my most intense Mac application) on the MacOS portion. Rarely would I need to run them simultaneously.
For running actual x64 Windows applications in a virtualized version of Windows 11 for ARM, while doing anything else, the 16GB RAM limit on the Air is likely to be an issue. It’ll be less so if they are native Windows ARM applications.
For your Adobe subscription applications, you’d be better off running the native macOS M1 versions. They’ll not only be much faster, but they’ll consume fewer resources.
Roon is not particularly RAM intensive (at least not with a single zone playing at a time). If it was the only application running (and even if it was working as Core, Controller and End-Point all on the same machine), 8GB would be plenty (on macOS). With other macOS applications running, as long as you’re not using huge image catalogs, 16GB would be fine.
It’s just doing those things and virtualizing Windows at the same time where 16GB is going to bite you.
That’s really going to depend on how much music (and other data) you want to keep on the laptop, vs. having Roon access it over a network. And, of course how big a Windows 11 installation you envisage having.
Also, I think F5 have a macOS version of there VPN Client - which would mean if you don’t have native Windows-only applications you have to run for work, you wouldn’t need Windows at all.
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Thank you, @Torq. That brings up one final question regarding MacOS. For years, I’ve been of the school that Mac does not really need additional anti-virus. If I use a Mac for work, I’m forced to install Symantec - I think it’s the end-point protection setup. That was another objection I had.
I’m not sure of the current thinking on Mac and anti-virus, nor if there is special setup needed with an anti-virus and ROON. I do not have NAS at home, have used external hard drives and/or hard drives attached to the router. That could always change. I do have about 700GB of accumulated data, photos, video, music that I keep on external hard drive. ROON sees a lot of old FLAC and ALAC rips, plus some MP3 when it catalogs my database - often I stream a higher res version, but it does inform the ROON database of my taste.
I’ve never bothered with anti-virus software on macOS.
I stopped using 3rd-party security products, including anti-virus, on Windows with the advent of Windows 10 (so 2015-ish). It just caused way more issues than it potentially addressed.
Whether you want to do the same will depend on your browsing/downloading habits (and on macOS you will have to take manual steps to run any un-notarized/un-signed software anyway).
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Anti-virus software has routinely caused more problems than it solved ever since Windows XP. It was a different world with Win 3.x and Win 95/98, but that era is gone.
The only virus-like issue I’ve experienced on MacOS for the last ~10 years was a browser hijacker. Some website installed a search engine, landing page, and/or tool bar in Safari. It was easy to remove by looking up the name and following the uninstall process. Solution: Use the Brave browser.
I had a WORSE experience trying to uninstall a free anti-virus program. It required an uninstaller function, but I’d dumped the app into the trash can. I went to the website and got it removed.
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Exactly how I view it. Agree completely about 3rd party antivirus on Windows also, the Microsoft stuff is good enough, light enough, and does not interfere. I used to run Antivirus on Mac before the new OS, when it was System N, Finder N, but then one of my friends was the developer, and eventually sold out to Symantec (becoming a VP at Symantec).
I have a low level of trust for any corporate IT that wants to install things on my computers.
Sounds like you have similar views, @generic
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Roon for whatever reason seems to be a RAM hog. The more the better.
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I suppose that depends on what version you’re running and how you define “RAM hog”.
On a million+ track local library, probably 5,000 external (streamed) albums (TIDAL/Qobuz) with 4 zones currently playing (different material and EQ/DSP in 3 of them), I’m showing 2.2GB in use (that’s for Roon, the RAAT server etc.). That’s under macOS Monterey.
I’ve got Chrome instances open using double that …
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I run it on a VM, and keep it limited to 4gb out of principle. It does fine. The iOS clients always forgetting where you were due to aggressive memory mangement in the OS is still irritating though.
A far cry from the days of Dr. Dobb’s Journal and “Running lite without overbyte.”
Still in today’s terms, not that bad.
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@pennstac I’m late to the party, but here are my $.02… I keep my work and my home computers well separated. Pre-pandemic, I had an office stand-alone Pi-based player running moOde with a USB SSD music storage to drive my work DAC+amp+headphones system. The SSD was mirrored from my home music server that runs Roon. Since I started WFH, we got a second place, and I decided to get a Roon core that I could carry between “city” and “beach”: Zotac ZBOX CI662 nano with 4TB SATA SSD running Ubuntu Server. It takes a few minutes to pack into a Pelikan case for the “commute.” I also carry a couple of Macbook Pros with me, for work and for personal use. I guess I could make the personal one a Roon core, but I want to be free to move the laptop around, putting it to sleep, etc without messing with music serving.
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That’s a pretty neat solution. How do you connect with the Zotac? After the initital setup, do you frequently use a monitor and keyboard, or does it usually just sit with no add-ons communicating with Roon Endpoints - your phone, laptops, etc?
Not sure it would be my solution, given my old current Win laptop, and one house with NO computer equipment at all. So when I visit there, I either bring iPad Pro or laptop with me.
After initial setup, I use Cockpit to manage the server from my laptop, but it’s also possible to just use ssh from the laptop. Main management task is to occasionally install Ubuntu updates.
Why did you go with the Zotac and a full Ubuntu install rather than ROCK and an Intel NUC?
Ubuntu Server allows me to run additional software, especially Syncthing to keep the several servers I have in two locations all in sync. It’s not a big deal to manage since I’ve been using and managing Linux/Unix machines for a long time, but of course that’s not the general case.
Secondarily, among fanless machines I have easy access to in the US, CI 662 nano is ideal in form factor and readiness. I could instead get a NUC and install it on an Akasa fanless case, but that’s a lot more work (I’m lazy on the hardware front).
What about Nucleus? It’s fanless and designed for the job, but very restricted on how it links to the rest of one’s network and workflow (for one thing, no Syncthing).
I have a different set of constraints and considerations than you do. At home, I run mostly Windows and Mac, just keep my hand in Linux with one laptop (may become 2 laptops, IDK it’s hard to through stuff out if you can install Linux instead). Currently have Lubuntu on the old laptop. I don’t do much Linux admin, but I have some friends that do, and I’m able to do some things with the command line.
If I consider various portability concerns, I have control over the wi-fi and wired network at my home and my wife’s house. Should I want ROON at work, a dedicated appliance is a good idea, as I’m not permitted a “PC”. Our antiquated compliance rules, I have an M1 iPad which is just fine. A NUC running ROCK can arguably not be considered a PC. Internet at work is locked down, no wi-fi except Comcast public unless I decided to pay for office Wi-Fi and guest access, which must be isolated from the work network. So I probably won’t spring for that.
My home hardware is aging, and this whole part of the thread is because I’m considering my options in upgrading hardware. Your Zotac solution, or for that matter a ROON Rock/Intel NUC solution is a bit of a curveball.
Work confirmed that I can connect just fine using a Mac running Parallels and Windows from either the Mac or Windows side with no compliance issues. I was thinking of spending too much money to get a Mac Pro 14 inch with enough juice to handle just about everything. Plus, it would be cool…
Less cool would be the cost. I could do the ROON Rock/Intel NUC and get a portable ROON setup that I can take from house to house. I can generally manage with CITRIX on my older iPad Pro (the big size) for light duty connection to work. That’s the cheapest for now. Possibly wait and see if there are further refinements to MacBook Air in the next go-round to expand it further.
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When I was/will be again working from work, I used a free-standing Pi-based server: Pi 3B+Pi2AES+7" PiTouch screen running moOde, 2TB USB SSD with a snapshot of my home local library. No network streaming, so no security issues. I’d take the SSD home now and then to resync with my local library, that’s it. Now that I spend considerable time at two different personal locations, carrying my Zotac Roon core back and forth is doable. If I had to fly between the two locations, though, it would be less practical.
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I’m using a Windows 10 desktop as my primary workstation, which I also use as my audio source for music listening (Full Roon stack with a Bifrost 2 output via USB). I have a fairly small FLAC library and 98% of my listening is Qobuz as a source. I have an extra Mac Mini laying around that I recently set up as a Home Assistant server, which got me wondering… Is there any benefit to running Roon Server on the separate Mac Mini?
I don’t have multiple zones so I’m not sure there would be a major benefit. However, if I’m understanding the Roon architecture kb article, it states core is responsible for “Retrieving audio from files or internet services and decoding it to PCM or DSD”. Does this mean if I have Server running on the Mini and am listening to Roon (Qobuz streaming) on the Windows workstation, that the Mini would offload some resources from my primary workstation? I’m not sure how resource intensive streaming Qobuz is in Roon (compared to Roon’s audio transport), so I’m trying to determine if there’s any tangible benefit to this approach before migrating my core to the Mini. Thanks!
EDIT: I should add that the only DSP I am using is DSP volume control / Auto-leveling.
The only reason I would do that, in your case, is if you have external storage such as a NAS and you want a dedicated head for the music database. Unless you are running HQPlayer, there isn’t much headroom to offload to the Mac.
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