New member & 1st time poster here and I know I’m kinda late to this thread’s party so hoping for patience @Torq@lost33 (hope tagging specific folks isn’t in bad taste or rude)
Let me start by commending this site/forum/thread for the awesome info share, respect, and lack of obvious agenda(s) = truly refreshing!
A recent bonus from work has me in a rare situation of being able to upgrade my desktop headphone setup - total expenditure of about $1K. Couple big reason for wanting to upgrade: remove “shoutiness” and/or brightness while improving detail/resolution/musicality - hoping that isn’t mutually exclusive.
My current setup is a Dell laptop feeding flac files over usb to Audio-GD NFB11 RCA’d to Little Dot MKII listening with HD600’s & M1060’s (don’t judge - wanted the planar experience at an affordable price). I mostly pair HD600 w/LDMKII & M1060 w/NFB-11 amp and I enjoy both but want to upgrade. At the moment I’m not looking to spend the bigger $$$ to upgrade my headphones, figure a more cost effective path would be improving the foundation: DAC & AMP.
My musical taste are mostly mainstream rock, blues, and pop ranging from Patsy Cline to Motown, 60’s folk rock to classic/hard rock, from metal to grunge. blues to 60-80’s pop… hope that paints a accurate enough picture. Some of the musical traits I value are:
hearing well INTO the music and finding those hidden details
accurate (punchy) bass and drums
life-like vocals and harmonies where you can still hear each distinctive voice
Due to my musical tastes, sound stage and tonal accuracy are lower in importance. I dislike it when I almost physically flinch because the music seems to “shout” at me -or- when parts or all of the music becomes “smooshed” together into a homogeneous wall of sound - losing vocal and instrumental separation when it’s there on the recording - I find it difficult to emotionally connect then. I realize my taste in music/recordings might make finding my equipment “happy place” difficult to find so that’s why I am here.
I’ve been watching & reading tons of reviews while simultaneously trying to weed out the useless and/or dishonest info attempting to find the best upgrade path. It seems the Bifrost 2 might be one of the best ways to go and because the NFB-11 has no analog inputs I’ll need a good solid-state amp to juxtapose my LDMKII.
Some combos I’m considering:
BF2–>one of THX amps?
BF2–>Asgard3?
BF2–>Jotenheim or Lyr 3? (getting a little pricey)
Thoughts? I’m not a Schiit Audio fanboy so any/all recommendations are welcome and appreciated!!!
You know that headphones will make the biggest difference in your listening experience…and yes there is synergy.
I would take the $1000 and look for a set of Focal Clears etc…
BUT!!
If you indeed want to upgrade your base, this i can totally understand…
So its simple IMO. A Bifrost 2 is a great MB dac that will work for you for a long time. Add a Jotenheim 2 and your home free.
An excellent all around setup…SE or balanced and enough power to drive most anything…
If I had $1K to spend this would be it… the Lyr 3 in an excellent hybrid tube amp as well…but the Jot for its price point and peformance is hard to beat!
Thank you Alex - much appreciated!!!
Focal Clear+my current base > musical enjoyment than my current headphones+new base?
My deep dive into researching my upgrade path is that I hate hate hate having buyers remorse and for me, $1k is NOT small potatoes
I have had the HD600s for years, 650’s and 660s…all great cans from Senn.
When you try a can like a Clear its like going up another level…soundstage, articulation is better but the 6xx series is good as well…the bass and tonality is much better IMO.
That said the ideal path IMO is a B2 + J2 _ Clears…and your 90% home towards a really, really good setup…
I think the Clears would make me more musically satisfied than an amp or dac…that said I would get the cans and then plan on upgrading to a B2 and J2 in the future…
Here are some more things to think about, in addition to @lost33’s comments.
You need to determine if the shoutiness and/or brightness is caused by your amps or your current headphones. If it’s the amps, then getting a Clear, which is very resolving, will highlight those flaws even more, in my opinion.
If you decide to get a Clear, then use a store with a good return policy, like headphones.com . The Clear is easy to drive, and if you already like your amps, you’re probably OK, but just in case it doesn’t work out, you have that return policy to fall back on.
Read the reviews of the new Clear Mg Pro, which has a slightly different sound signature from the regular Clear, and decide which one you want.
It’s not obvious to me if the original Clear is going to be officially replaced by the Mg. Either way, as people start buying the Mg because it’s the “latest and greatest”, you may start to see discounted OG Clears start to crop up, so maybe wait a bit to see what happens. Or if you contact the store directly, ask them if they can give you a discount on the OG.
Whenever you decide to get a new amp and DAC, I think the BF2 is a foundational DAC that you probably won’t want to upgrade for a long long time, if ever. (Disclaimer: I’m thinking about replacing my BF2, but only because I just bought a TOTL amp, and even then, I’m not in any rush to replace it because it sounds so good.)
Out of the amps you’ve listed, I own the Jot 2 and Lyr 3, along with the BF2, and I recently had an Asgard 3 for several weeks. They’re all slightly different, but they’re all very musical too. I’m willing to bet you’d be happy with any of those amps, but your comment about punchy bass and drums makes me think that the Jot 2 may meet your needs, because its bass is very good.
I’m not going to comment beyond saying that I would not, personally, pair a set of Focal Clears, of any version, with an Audio-GD NFB-11 as the source, nor with a Little Dot MKII as the amplifier.
They’re a fantastic headphone, but they’re going to show up the myriad issues of the NFB-11, even with the Little Dot MKII doing it’s best to gloss over them.
Like you I have a BF2 and Lyr 3. I have used it with some IEMs. They don’t need the power of the Lyr 3, but the detail of the BF2 can be a real winner.
I’m not the person to talk about “good IEM” because I have listened to a limited number of them and won’t pay for top of the line. My favorite as of now is the Audeze LCDi3, which if you use iPhone/iPad and the included cipher cable has it’s own DAC and EQ.
IEMs can indeed benefit from desktop setups. I’ve seen well-respected folks recommend the THX789 amp as it has a low, low-gain setting for IEMs. The issue with desktop amps is the “noise-floor.” Sensitive IEMs, in particular, will pick up any noise or hum in the chain. This is especially an issue with tube or tube-hybrid amps. An IEMatch from iFi can help here a great deal.
A high-end IEM will scale with better sources, especially one at the level of the BF2.
I finally did it. After being on the fence for what seems like forever between the Ares2 and the Bifrost2. I ordered my BF2 yesterday. Seems like it might have better synergy with the amps I have. Not to mention after watching several interviews with Jason and reading their website, reviews, etc. Schiit is an easy company to get behind. This is only my second dac and it will be replacing the su-8… should be a considerable upgrade to say the least. Pretty stoked
What are you using now? I would at least venture a “probably” but that’s unhelpful.
Depending upon your current dac it likely won’t blow it away in any one area but may do a lot of things just a bit better which adds together to a significant upgrade. If your ear is good enough or you critically listen the gear you mentioned should be able to pick out differences.
Contrary to some YT opinions, dacs do matter.
Keep in mind that if you are happy with what you have then it’s ok to be happy with what you have.
Was using chord mojo and sundara (sold recently to finance the upgrade). Current setup though is LCD-2f and Macbook Pro onboard audio all playing tidal through Roon w/DSP. Waiting to replace the DAC/amp. Although… not entirely sure how much I need to spend to see a good step up from my laptop… I definitely want a desktop setup and something that will drive the LCDs well. I don’t really want to spend more than the headphones themselves otherwise I’d be looking at Jot and Bifrost. Looking at keeping this setup for a few years and then either adding another headphone or selling and upgrading again.
Top priorities are soundstage, natural timbre, great resolution. I listen to a fair amount of acoustic and classical music as well as prog rock/metal music.
@mikecheck95 , judging from your latest questions in other threads, you’ve narrowed your choices down to Bifrost 2-Asgard 3 or Modius-Jot 2.
That’s a tough choice. I’ve owned (and liked) both amps, and both pair well with the BF2. I personally liked the Jot 2 a little more than the A3, because it had more power, a bigger stage and a punchier bass, which handled rock music a little better, in my opinion. But I would have been happy with either amp, along with the BF2.
I’ve never used a Modius, so I’m not much help, but hopefully, someone else on the forum has tried the Modius-Jot 2 pairing.
I’m guessing that whichever combination you buy will sound good.
You got it… I’m basically trying to figure out whether the Bifrost will contribute more in terms of natural timbre/better transient info. or if having the added punch from the balanced Jot will be what takes my setup to the next level. I do realize there is another option: increase my budget a bit and get both… From my experience comparing with the Mojo though, the MacBook Pro jack is not too bad so I’m not coming from complete garbage - which makes the decision a little tougher. I actually had the option of getting an Audeze MX-4 (on sale) but decided I’d like to also have some budget left to buy an Amp and DAC so I went for the LCD-2… already having slight buyer’s remorse wondering if I can find the right equipment to drive it haha but the LCDs do sound very good and with a bit of EQ they just light up.
