Same here. That and the V-shape tilts button, explained in a previous post in the other thread:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/dsp-eq-and-other-plug-ins/4087/56?u=frkasper
ROFL! Hahahaha thanks for the laugh!
1 Like
Parametric EQs are cool but since last week I gave it all up for these guys:
In short, two things are happening:
- Frequency response is neutralized – to their criterion and according to their measurements (assuming they’re available for the cans);
- A V-shaped EQ’ed to taste is applied on top of it – a.k.a., the spice/fun button.
It’s so much simpler when the number of variables are reduced to two: bass and treble tilt. Laziness and enjoyment walking side by side. Some, would just call it convenience.
Three possibilities with this piece of DSP, and two places to click in the user interface (GUI):
- Listen to the cans as is (no DSP);
- Apply neutralization (DSP);
- Apply neutralization + spice button (V-shape curve).
Pre-gain is applied at all times, which is good as there will be no volume jumps (DSP on/off). This software was conceived to be used in studios. Tools are tools, right?
Cheers.
1 Like
There’s actually a dedicated Sonarworks thread, here, which you may find useful/interesting.
1 Like
Right. I feel no shame whatsoever in using either Sonarworks’ True-Fi or Reference 4 Headphone Edition. I know it sounds redundant to have both DSP’s which basically do the exact same thing and while you do get a few extras with the Ref 4 they don’t do anything spectacular: for listening it sounds the exact same as True-Fi. Anyway being quarantined and having nothing better to do I decided to give to autoeq project another go but unlike last time in January this time I took it very seriously, read all there is to read about it, about Equalizer APO, about Python 3. No need to know Python to complete the project but I like to know how stuff works and also have at least a vague idea of what’s going on if something doesn’t work right. Took me the best of two weeks but I got it done, never thought free software could achieve the results I attained, but come to think about it Windows 10 was also free for a long time so in the end what you pay for software is no absolute indication how good it will perform. In order for autoeq to work well I have a few pointers:
-If possible just use APO, Peace is more suited for smaller filter formats Use variable-band filters not basic parametric unless your computer has an old CPU (like Core2 Duo). I used compensation (diffused_field) with the rtings Elear files in avg, plus a basic bass boost to polish out the low end. This is best for system-wide performance. Variable-band filters use up to 700 parameters depending on headphone model. Parameters are obtained from frequency response curves but unless you have a rare and unusual headphone model the presets already contain all the files you’ll need. Some come from this site, others from rtings, Inner Fidelity, etc.
-Most of the time program failure is due to typos or incorrect path statements. Keep your attention to the program otherwise you can make a little mistake that may require hours to troubleshoot. Happened to me when I missed a dot. Almost threw the computer out the door it was so frustrating.
Now how do my “new” Elears sound? Stellar. After having them on HE 4/True-File for a long time I thought this was as good as it gets. I was wrong. I can only describe it as clearer and more articulate than the Clear, which is no small feat. I can listen loud without a hint of clipping anywhere whilst there is a live song from Lee Ritenour on Qobuz where his drummer du jour Sonny Emory does a solo. Prior to DSP’ing and even at low volume there is a point in the solo at which a loud pop in the right channel would be heard, loud enough to damage a lesser driver I reckon. Well that pop is completely gone by now even at high volume. Instead I can hear the keyboard player say something to Ritenour. With True-Fi I couldn’t make out the words but now I can. On the Clear it’s not clear although it’s marginally better than True-Fi was.
This time there is no match, even the most skeptical audiophile would have to admit it if he heard it. “Like being there” may sound cheesy but that’s how it is: bass is clean, deep and very present but not as a background noise that muddies performance. Kick drum I think is what gained the most in presence and impact, it’s almost physical. Listening to Marcus Miller recorded live at Montreux in 2016 is like I just died and went to Heaven. I honestly don’t think the Elear can sound any better, they’re maxed. For this kind of sound I would pay $2,000 even $2,300. It’s that good. Headphones are just like speakers. Get a pair with a high-quality cabinet and top-notch drivers, and throw a crappy Xover at them, what do you get? Crappy sound. Switch to a top-notch filter specifically designed for those drivers in that specific box. Uber good SQ, from the exact same drivers. All the parameters contained in those files I used were specific to the Elear and, if properly implemented, designed to draw the best possible performance out of them. And they had plenty to offer.
Now I’m hooked, tomorrow a new under performer with potential (maybe) will be plucked out of the collection and grinded through the autoeq machine: the Hifiman PITA 6 aka HE6, the original one not the SE. Problematic is its most prominent feature, let’s see if we can do something about it. The only amp that I have that will drive it to enjoyable level is my restored vintage monster receiver Pioneer SX-1250. When a headphone requires a 75-lbs 160wpc machine to swing the volts there’s got to be something quite not right with it. Was toying with the idea of working with the Susvara but I dare not, what if I broke it? Does DSP void the warranty? Better leave that one alone. 
3 Likes
Wonderful. I started some similar journey two weeks ago but struggled to get the data. I was to the point of extracting data with this tool. Very laboring. 
Now I know where to get the data, at least. 
Anyway, I threw everything away after trying Reference 4. Still in the honey moon with it.
3 Likes
The SONARWORKS profile did great things for the LCD-X, for me. Opened them right up without losing any low end. In my use, it was a necessary adjustment.
2 Likes
If you liked it with the Utopia you should hear what it does with the Elear: instant $2,000 cans. I liked it on the Utopia as well (finally some bass) but it wasn’t spectacular like the Elear. My guess is that the reason the Elear responds so well to DSP is because they provide a lot of headroom to work with, especially that void in the mids.
The Elear responds so well to EQ not because it has lots of headroom - it’s currently the weakest and most limited driver in the Focal home/audiophile line-up, but because the Elear’s native tonality is so wonky to begin with.
They NEED multiple, relatively gross, adjustments, to get anywhere near the more natural tonality of the rest of the line-up or of other non-speciality cans. To get to the same FR, the adjustments needed for Elear are far more involved and severe than for the Utopia - ergo of course there’s a bigger audible change when using SonarWorks … as the SonarWorks target response is constant and the Elear start off further from it.
I can’t say I find running them with SonarWorks transforms them into something competitive with any $2,000 cans, either. Tonally it works wonders, but that’s all. It doesn’t help them meet even the Clear’s faster, cleaner, drivers that exhibit better transient response, superior micro-dynamic resolution and micro-dynamic impact, better decay and square-wave behavior, let alone even better units - and the Clear is only $1,499 (typically less). And the Clear don’t need EQ to sound natural.
5 Likes
It’s not something I can explain Ian, the best I can do is to if fe offer tentative theories. Prior to DSP I didn’t use the Elear that much, it was too dark for my taste and I preferred the Clear. But now to me at least it sounds very similar to the Clear only with deeper bass. Which is something I appreciate apparently. We all have different expectations from headphones, take a look at all the people who still swear by the Senn HD600 series.
I can explain it. I just did. There’s no mystery to it.
When you make larger EQ changes, the apparent difference is obviously, and unavoidably, larger.
And the EQ changes are larger with the Elear than for the other Focal headphones simply because they’re far wonkier and need more correction than the others.
There’s a BIG difference between preference and performance. Anyone can like whatever they want for whatever reasons seem reasonable to them. But preference has little to do with technical performance, and there the Elear lag demonstrably.
Elear via SonarWorks certainly sounds VERY close to the Clear. It’s still not their technical equal, but is tonally very close. Though if you want more bass out of the Clear, that’s just as easy.
3 Likes
Owning both the Elex and Clear – the difference in speed and nuance is dramatic. Listen to acoustic instruments or voice for decay and breath and air.
The Elear/Elex have what sounds to me like too-heavy drivers for audio reproduction. As such, they amplify the volume/dynamics because they can’t stop moving once they start moving. This is akin to a car vs. a truck driving on a curvy road: the light car can adjust rapidly to either gain or lose speed when needed, while the truck lumbers about. The Elear/Elex will exaggerate the bass/slam because they are indeed heavy and move a lot of air once they start moving.
3 Likes
Incredibly well explained. This is why I will always advocate buying something as close as possible to the user’s preference, but also with good technical performance, which is absolutely unfixable with any amount of DSP
5 Likes
Almost 2 weeks with Reference 4 in my system. Already built a few presets and submitted two enhancement requests for development. Not that I expect they will be implemented. Who knows…
My general takeaway, as of today:
- It really fixes annoying things in specific headphones – e.g.: the highs in DT770;
- The headphones start to sound similar – frequency wise;
- Corrections on HD600 and 6XX are really subtle – but can be perceived as in a bad way: (a) some vocals become shouty; (b) bass correction may reach distortion in the driver – it sounded artificial to me, for the lack of better wording;
- It may sound weird, depending on the track – once again, excuse my lack of better wording;
- Reduced signal to noise ratio – but this is also true with APO Equalizer as well. The more your headphone needs correction, more it will be discounted in pre-gain stage in your OS.
I really like this DSP as another tool in the toolbox. In the past 2-3 days I started turning it off for a while and suddenly I rediscovered the joy that I had with my small set of cans (except the DT700, of course).
My recommendation is to avoid engaging/disengaging the DSP very often as it will cause confusion to the brain. For instance, if one is planning to spend a couple of hours listening to some music with a specific headphone, choose to engage (or not) DSP before start listening.
The cans that I have been using the most for evaluating this DSP are: HD600, 6XX, SRH1540 and DT770.
As a side note, there’s no fancy gear here: just a regular DAC (Focusrite 6i6) and no lossless music. Just regular Google Play Music streaming.
Cheers.
4 Likes
Quoting you
I can explain it. I just did. There’s no mystery to it.
I like them and tinkering with them in a way that I would never dare indulge with higher-uppers in my collection. Why don’t I simply just use my other Focals (like you I have them all except the Elex) as daily drivers instead of slumming around in the dubious company of DSP’d Elear and “lowly” plain HFM Sundara? I don’t know, therein lies the mystery.
When you make larger EQ changes, the apparent difference is obviously, and unavoidably, larger.
Agree 100%.
And the EQ changes are larger with the Elear than for the other Focal headphones simply because they’re far wonkier and need more correction than the others.
I don’t know if it’s because they’re “wonkier” or because they were designed to be used with a specifically purpose-built DAC/HAMP that the Focal-Naim Group had designed for it and the Utopia although the latter is somewhat less finicky. about what drives it as long as it’s good gear.
There’s a BIG difference between preference and performance. Anyone can like whatever they want for whatever reasons seem reasonable to them. But preference has little to do with technical performance, and there the Elear lag demonstrably.
With all due respect Ian, I would rather say there’s a big difference between preference and design, because perceived performance is subjected to preference. If I prefer this and that it’s because I think it performs well regardless of design considerations
Please don’t get me wrong, I know of the Elear’s shortcomings too well but 5 years ago that was the best you could get for $1,000 and practically all serious reviewers liked them, “for whatever reasons seem reasonable to them”. I purchased mine based on those opinions and was a little disappointed so I finally got the pricey Naim DAC V1 the audio store had tried to push on me initially. Big improvement but still not satisfactory to me which was frustrating since the V1 is made by Naim who by some coincidence happens to be part of a company named The Focal-Naim Group.
You’d think a company that makes its own DAC’s will favor greater compatibility with their own headphones but not in this case although that DAC sounds great on many of my other phones. And as if that wasn’t aggravating enough the left driver quit on me, just like that in the middle of a song, poof! I figured it was some minor problem that the shop would fix under warranty real quick but as it turned out I had fallen victim to the infamous “Driver Issue” many early-production Elears were plagued with. Since they come in matched pairs both drivers were replaced. The new drivers sounded somewhat clearer than the old ones but better imaging was the most noticeable improvement. Nothing to write home about though.
Some months later I purchased the Clear open-box demo at a very substantial discount. I’ll just say they cost me less than the Elear. Clear became a daily driver, soon joined by the deceptively modest HFM Sundara which sounds better at moderate volume than its $3k brother HE6 unless you have a monstrous amp to drive their formidable inefficiency.
Elear](https://www.headphones.com/products/focal-elear-over-ear-open-back-headphones) via SonarWorks certainly sounds VERY close to the Clear. It’s still not their technical equal, but is tonally very close. Though if you want more bass out of the Clear, that’s just as easy.
I believe that’s what I said in a previous post. Sonarworks brought them close to the Clear but still was a little gap. Fixing this dark recess (I call it a fix, some say a tweak) took me weeks of learning enough about DSP so as to approximately know what I was doing and in the end I prefer that sound to the Clear’s. To my dimming 57 year-old hearing they sound crispier, more lively. I reckon younger people and those older gentlemen blessed with near-perfect hearing the Clear would probably sound better.
May the fair winds be your mate Ian, live your dream to the fullest 
3 Likes
I can’t speak for the Elex as I don’t have it but I do have the Clear, and I like it. But taking a lesser phone and learning enough DSP manipulation to make that phone sound A LOT better pleases me. Sonarworks did a good job but I wanted to find out if it would be possible for me to do a little better and in my very humble opinion, I did. It’s certainly not because I’m better than the folks at Sonarworks, it’s because I have all the time in the world working on my own stuff, while they don’t.
Mr. @MuzeMuff (né MuseMuff) would you be as kind as to share your Elear settings? I’d be very interested. (I have an Elear, and also Clear pads).Thanks!
1 Like
Certainly, but be advised it’s not just a matter of settings, you’ll need to follow procedures using DSP software (free, no worries) and the Python programming language, but not that much. It’ll be mostly for performing and linking pre-written modules and fine-tuning to your preferences aftwards. This how-to already exists (search for autoeq on Github) but it’s rather cryptic to laymen like us so I’ll write a step-by-step write-up. This will require some time though so either be patient and and wait a little or you may attempt the autoeq formula yourself if you’re in a “wtf-do-they-mean-by-that” deciphering mood 
1 Like
At the pace Sonarworks churns out profiles and pre-sets I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they obliged you.
1 Like
It appears that you may not have to jump through the DSP loops after all. Why is that? It’s because Sonarworks has caught up with me big time with their newly released successor to True-Fi. It’s called SoundID and it brings out the very best of what your Elear has to offer when properly configured. That will make it sound practically identical to the Clear if you use your Clear pads, while using the original Elear pads will deepen bass at the cost of a small decrease in the lower mids region. I have also tried it with Utopia pads but it did not increase SQ which is superb anyway. I can’t say I have a preference between the native pads or the Clears’, the results with either are equally pleasing to me. The only time I do have a definite bias towards the native pads is when I listen to bass-lead music such as Marcus Miller. It delivers well-rounded, punchy and accurate bass response while listening to that kind of material with the Clear’s pads (or with the Clear itself) is pleasant but less involved, plus the impact of the prominent low mids causes fatigue after an hour or so and you feel like a lil’ somethin’ is a’ missin’.
SoundID carries the now typical Sonarworks sonic signature found on True-Fi and Reference 4 Headphone Edition, but the rendition has a subtle smoothness to it that is not present on Ref 4 or TF. I had programmed the same silky texture with autoeq using a linear phase filter on top of the parametric settings, that after trying a dozen different tools to get rid of some residual harshness without having to push down negative gain below -6dB to keep power requirements in check…Used by themselves linear phase “convolution” filters sound smothered but as I found out they are used in a mix for a reason. And Sonarworks added a tidbit amount of crossfeed, like I had done. It’s not easy to master but they got it spot on probably in a few minutes while it took me like a week.
But by using SoundID you need not bother with such stuff. What you need bother with is installing SoundID which is a bit complex compared with 2-click-installs like True-Fi or Ref 4. Before you can use the desktop app you must calibrate your headphones online using a smartphone app downloaded from the App Store (iOS) or Google Play (Android). The app is free and while SoundID itself is not free you can get a 60-day trial at no charge, and they don’t ask for credit card info and such. After that period if you want to keep using it you’ll have subscribe $5 a month or $25 every 6 months. I find that ridiculously affordable even if in the long run it will end up being more expensive than the other 2. The subscription formula is a major departure from the single-fee license base for Ref 4 and the late True-Fi.
For the calibration once you have installed the app on your phone you’ll be made to listen to a series of A vs B sound samples, many of them, and select the one you preferred for each sample. How your headphones will sound on your desktop depends on this test so it pays to listen carefully. As usual it’s darker vs brighter so the aim is to balance it to your taste The calibration will yield a “profile” that is supposed to be used by Sonarworks to determine the amount of correction required for your specific phones but I suspect the differences between correction profiles are very subtle and hard to tell apart. Otherwise if they had a million subscribers with 734 different models of headphones imagine the ridiculous amount of processing that would require, it would be unmanageable.
Once your profile is established you can download the desktop app (see link at bottom of this post). SoundID is strictly a desktop app, only the calibration is done via phone. At least that’s my understanding. In this regard it is more similar to Ref 4 than to True-Fi but unlike these SoundID’s GUI has no tone controls which is why the calibration part is important.
In my case installing the app did not go smoothly.The installer kept crashing complaining this or that weird file was not found, but provided no further indications. Took a little time researching the issues and being instructed to install two huge programs just to get 4 or 5 files from them. Then I had an epiphany. I remembered that True-Fi sometimes advised the user that it had to download extra files from Microsoft and then proceeded to do it by itself. Ha! I figured those were the same files SoundID was after but for some reason was not programmed to fetch them on its own. So I downloaded True-Fi from the Sonarworks archives and voila, SoundID stopped whining about the missing files. No, instead it said it couldn’t start the “audio engine”.
Sh1t.
We was not happy I can tell you that. But then I remembered that Ref 4 also had that issue sometimes but you could go into settings and select “restart audio engine” and it would do just that. So went back to Sonarworks and downloaded Ref 4 trial, which jump-started the “engine” and at last I could enjoy SoundID… but not before it complained that Ref 4 was running in the background and apparently those two don’t get along. Very well then, uninstalled Ref 4 and True-Fi for good measure, and SoundID loaded without yapping, which I found quite surprising. Almost as surprising as the performance 
Now you try it, it’s worth the trouble 
2 Likes