I actually think the HD6X0 worship is less for their “mostly correct mids” and much more for their colorations and character, and in that respect… The tasteful sweetness character you get from them while being otherwise tonally reasonable is a difficult bar for others to achieve, and surpassing them for neutrality simply isn’t good enough for the HD6X0 faithful.
But then it’s ironically their neutrality that gets the most air time when cultists are extolling their virtues - and I say this as somewhat of a cultist myself
Nah I mean, I know you don’t think the 6 series is bad lol. I just don’t see any people saying “nothing will ever beat the HD 600/650”. The adherents typically hype it as the best thing that exists (and I think their big error is assuming its the best thing that exists for all situations/listeners, which is absolutely false), but I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone shut down the idea that something better could ever come along.
I do think the lack of acknowledgement for the plurality of different, but viable approaches to midrange is a bit of an unfortunate side effect from the hype—the whole “nothing beats 6x0 at mids” thing is a bit over-simplified—but the fact remains that its probably the most consistently balanced lineup of headphones in this one band, even when you consider pad wear/variation. The point is not that its “perfect,” the point is that even within the bounds of QC/pad variation, the colorations in the midrange balance against each other in a way that typically ends up sensible.
The problem with HD 505/550 is that they’re both seemingly rougher in the treble for most listeners than the 6 series, while also having a bit more lean-ness in the midrange (especially 505). Their acoustic design is likely to blame for this—angled drivers and higher overall acoustic Z means individual ears are likely to have more idiosyncratic effects on the headphone behavior—and these are things that I think simply make them worse, more compromised designs than the 6 series. Of course some people will prefer HD 505/550, but I doubt it would be a majority due to the actual sound/design of the headphones, not for hype/inertia reasons.
And IMO yeah, if the 550 came out however many years ago and then the 6 series came out now, I think the 6 series would be considered the better headphone despite having less bass. Pure conjecture, but as someone who actually prefers the 550’s treble vs. (one of) the 6 series, the 6 series feels more expensive because of its build, looks better, and also sounds more expensive due to the colorations of its treble tuning.
The first part re: 6x0 is an interesting thought. It’s definitely novel to those who haven’t heard an open back headphone before (which is most normal people), but I also think there’s an argument that anyone who has heard a reasonably competent, but bass-light speaker—and I’d even count iPhone speakers or small bluetooth speakers in this group—wouldn’t hear the HD 600’s bass deficit as a “novel coloration” that their brain would form a positive association to like other colorations in the audiophile sphere. My conjecture is they’d probably just want more bass, because the headphones they’ve worn up to that point have probably had more bass and we know listeners care a lot about bass in their headphones. As far as the “closed in” thing… idk, I think anyone who’s heard a closed back headphone before would probably not think its as weird as audiophiles insist it is, I think they would only think its weird because they’d be bringing an expectation of “soundstage” to their first open-back headphone that the 6 series likely wouldn’t deliver.
And look, people absolutely have valid reasons to not like the 6 series that have nothing to do with novelty, I’m not saying that’s the only reason someone wouldn’t like that lineup of headphones; I am exactly that person who has heard a ton of stuff, but still has no desire to listen to the 6 series, even though I am absolutely not chasing novelty.
But I am saying that I’ve observed newer listeners or IEM fans having a bigger appetite for novel colorations that make their music sound interesting, and the 6 series has less dramatic colorations than most other headphones that would ping this sense of novelty.
Tyll Hertsens felt that more emphasis in the ear gain region gave a (false?) impression of greater clarity. And in my EQ tests, I’ve also gotten that impression.
I think he also suffered from hearing loss in that range though.
A headphone like the Drop+Sennheiser HD 6XX comes pretty close to the model I use for a neutral response in the midrange and treble though. I think there might be only a few others that are really in the same ballpark, or better, out-of-the-box. I have not had an opportunity to listen to a pair though.
If you are looking for a model of a neutral response in that range though, I suspect you could do alot worse than a 6XX, or something similar.
I think I’m hardly alone in not liking having things stuck inside my ears just in terms of comfort. I tried to get into IEMs for years and have finally given up. I can’t imagine sitting at my desk and choosing to put IEMs in my ears when I could put on a nice comfy set of headphones. Portability is IEMs main advantage to me, and I actually use Apple AirPods Pro for that which still annoys me a bit but at least has a shorter nozzle that doesn’t stick all the way in my ears, and I don’t have to deal with cables on top of that.
From my personal experience of ear cleaning by professionals, please consider it. Uncomfortable eartips may be a sign of other obstructions which is bad for hearing and ear health. It never hurts to get a cleaning.
I think it’s an age thing, I can’t stand IEM’s in my ears, but I also didn’t grow up with them and a lot of younger people did.
I own a few sets of IEM’s one that wasn’t trivial money, I use them when I’m away from home having to kill time and wait for something, they can sound very good, but I couldn’t tolerate them for more than an hour or two.
And for point of reference I’ve had my ears cleaned.
I’m guy who said IEMs are trash above. I was kidding around in being so strident – I totally get it that for some, IEMs are where it’s at. They have to be, obviously; otherwise there wouldn’t be so many of them. But that’s actually part of why I find them so off-putting. Look at this, for example – this is just one company’s IEMs. How is anybody supposed to figure out what’s best?
In my own case, though, it’s because I can’t get a proper seal, or when I do, it’s uncomfortable and/or comes loose. And I really tried, believe me. I tried every one of those Sony wireless units, as I thought it’d be perfect for phone calls, travel, etc. I couldn’t get a single one of them to fit right. And I tried all the tips, including aftermarket tips. I got frustrated and gave up. (And I go to the audiologist and ENT often enough to know it’s not a blockage issue.)
Anyhow, that IEMs “destroy headphones at multiples of their price” is awesome if you experience that. And it’s great spice for this thread. But I ain’t buyin’ it.
The Meze Empyrean, Elite, and Empyrean II are some of the greatest headphones ever made. The best of the three is not the latest – it can be a bit too bright – but the highly controversial original, the Empyrean OG, though with the II’s Duo pads.
More than fair, but every product isn’t for everybody. Those manufacturers have so many models because they are selling so many models. Honing in on the 75 and under market for IEM’s, there is so much there which is accessible and sounds leagues beyond what a headphone can do at that price. Look at the Meze Alba, 160 and it comes with a dongle. You cant get that sound quality in a 160 headphone and certainly not the portability. It is therefore easy to see a future where people have AirPods/galaxy buds for wireless use but have an affordable IEM with a dongle cable for more serious listening. That use case will slowly but surely start consuming the headphone market, especially when the value/convenience proposition continues to get better as you move up the price ladder.
This is not say headphones will disappear, they have clear use cases that will never go away (true noise cancelling for flights, studio monitoring etc) but the days of mostly headphones dominating the personal audio market are in the past.
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Me too, and I tried the Emp. I last (I got one used last month in quite nice condition off ebay), and the tuning sort of sits nicely in between the Elite and the II, though the warmth is a bit too rich with its own leather pad, but pretty close to perfect with the Duo pad. Give it a try if you get a chance!
I thought the Empy II treble was a bit grainier but the Elite was shockingly smooth. Honestly, the Elite was one of the best headphones I ever heard (though this was at CanJam so with the caveat that this isn’t the best listening environment and I didn’t listen to it for that long), but it costs more than I’d ever remotely consider paying for a headphone. (I already bought one of the best headphones I ever heard that cost much too much–the Atrium–and there’s really no world where I’m buying something even more expensive than that, especially when I already have that.)
People that complain about discomfort wearing IEMs are whiny little people unwilling to tip-roll or find the right design to fit their ears, let alone invest in a proper custom IEM!
Lol, spicy indeed haha. I used to be one of those “whiny little people” until I realized not all IEMs are deep-fitting bullet style earphones like the original Etymotics. I have zero fit or comfort issue with most semi-custom molds and even the Sennheiser style. Tip rolling is indeed critical IMO! IEMs are still lo-fi, though.
Partly false, partly true. I am not unwilling to try tips; indeed I have tried more tips than any reasonable man should ever be asked to try, including Christmas trees, silicone, foam, etc. Nor am I little. However, I am whiny, especially in the spice thread.
But I ain’t buyin’ it.