I have a really beautiful RPM-2 table, purchased used in 2003 for about 3k, and in the last few years I’ve had it repaired about three times as some parts wore out. It’s built like a tank, weighs the same, and sounds fantastic. Very crisp. You can tell it was designed by a drummer. Recently upgraded to a Soundsmith Sussurro II cartridge (another used purchase), so it’s pretty much set. I might invest in an outboard phono pre-amp at some point, but for now it goes directly into the Black Ex integrated, which has a phono input … It digitizes the signal but sounds great.
I do comparisons between vinyl and hi-rez streaming sometimes and it’s very hard to hear any major differences (although it’s all going through a digital conversion). But there is a vibe to analog that I enjoy, and a way that it compels your focus that doesn’t happen the same way with digital (even when the analog is digitized). That probably makes no sense. But I do hear and feel subtle differences.
I supported local stores when I can - picked up the VPI Prime Scout about 90 minutes away. I’ve used Audio Advisor for general stuff, and Vinyl Nirvana for older AR/Thorens.
I have the Schiit phono pre-amp card in my Jotunheim and is sounds pretty good. I assume the Schiit Mani is a step up from that. I use a Rega Aria MM/MC phono stage normally, and like it, but given the $1370 price difference between the Rega Aria and Schiit Mani I can’t say it is worth it for a turntable under $2k. Would be better investing in a phono cartridge upgrade I think.
Yes, I also use Music Direct, and have used Exclusive Disc, but mostly for vinyl purchases. Music Direct has some folks that know how to match Carts and preamps if you call them.
@bpcarb, Consider Ortofon and Grado carts also. They’re major players in the business - especially Ortofon, and these days being able to manufacture in volume is still a key to value for selling price. I don’t believe in cartridge esoterica until they reach the “if you have to ask how much it is, you can’t afford it” price ranges. Also, if you decide you want to swap it out for something later, it’s much easier to resell. VPI tests their tables with Grados, and to a lesser extent Ortofon. I wonder if it’s because the Grados are just across the Hudson…
Good input, thanks. I’ll give those more of a look. Manufacturing in volume does help our wallets. The VPI/Grado Hudson connection is real. For a $1200 deck, I’m thinking a MM cartridge in the $150 to $200 price range might be a good sweet spot here for me.
It would be nice to own a VPI table down the line (requires purple belt status and above).
They ship quickly and package well. A few bucks less than others.
If you’re into esoterica, Forced Exposure is voluminous, and often runs a 15% off deal (much as Acoustic Sounds and Music Direct do), but you’ll pay for shipping via Media Mail.
And don’t want to forget my pal Adam Lore, who stocks a wonderful array of archival and contemporary vinyl gems on small, independent labels at 50 Miles of Elbow Room … Limited runs, rarities, all the untamed tangents of storefront gospel shouters, cosmic wizards, diddley-bow savants, moonshine messiahs and unrepentant hounddoggers.
The described MoFi sound signature seems like my speed:
The StudioPhono and MoFi cartridges have a very big warm sound with good detail and dynamics. While we strive for a neutral sound, our designs sonic signature leans towards the side of richness over thinness. In direct comparisons a Grado cartridge is even warmer sounding but at the sacrifice of detail. Still a very nice choice for a MoFi turntable if that’s the kind of sound you want. The Ortofon 2M and and lower price Sumiko cartridges go in the other direction, less body and leaner sounding that the MoFi or Grado. To my ears they have a less organic sound. It’s all a matter of preference. I haven’t heard a recent Nagaoka, Musical Fidelity phono preamp, or the Schiit to comment.
Separately, I’ve come across some guidance that suggests spending a bit more on a phono preamp.
That echoes the British Hi Fi rules that were drilled into me in the 80s, i.e. spend as much as you can afford on the source, and then focus on the next piece of equipment in the chain and so on until you get to the speakers, which you can buy with whatever money you have left over.
And with the advent of CD, the same rules were followed, by buying expensive CD transports with separate DACs as the foundation of the system. When I moved to the US in the 90s, salesmen kept telling me to start with giant speakers and work my way back up the chain. I suppose that’s not so different from starting with a multi-thousand dollar pair of headphones, along with a budget Schiit stack. Maybe the difference now is that you can get higher quality budget amps and digital sources than 30 years ago.
As they say, garbage in ( poor LP’s, CD’s, downloads, or poor streams) garbage out. It all starts with the media. A good recording just allows a system to sound so much better or worst depending on the components. Then I always started at the room size, then found speakers to support the room size, then moved to the amp, control source be it a Pre-amp, phono stage, DAC then the source be it a TT, CD player, network streamer, DAC, . Matching components is the real key I feel not some percentages as everyone’s rooms, systems, music choice, budget and ears are not the same and it all depends on if you purchase NEW or used. Of course in my case, I started out in the early 60’s with music , I have both, headphone and 2 chl systems today. . You put the best headphone on your ears you can afford, then the best amp that supports the speakers and/or DAC/streamer/CD player and/or DAP you can afford. Its all a personnel choice.
Someone didn’t check their arithmetic! I was surprised also. Maybe this is a case of follow the money, where this retailer focuses on selling front end source equipment rather than speakers.
There seems to be differing cross-Atlantic views on whether to focus on the front end vs transducers. I believe there are multiple effective approaches and “it depends” on what one wants to designate as the initial anchor/focus of their system. For example, the Magnepan LRS, Elac Uni-Fi, and Senn HD650 all sell at relatively lower prices for their performance potential, and need to be paired with powerful, generally higher end gear in order to thrive/fully deliver. On the other hand, budget Schiit stacks are found in chains with kilobuck cans as you stated.
This is a major factor. Relatedly, historically headphone technology/design innovations/updates seem to have occurred not as fast as electronics. However, the last few years in headphones have brought us an abundance of latest and greatest, some novel headphone innovations: ZMF original dynamics and Focal high-end cans in 2016, followed by MySphere open design, RAAL SR1a ribbon drivers, and HEDD AMT.
For an analog turntable setup, there are multiple mechanical components and moving parts: the table, tonearm, stylus, phono stage, even before getting to amplification. On the other hand, digital involves the relatively more simple streamer/CD transport and DAC chain (see dongles that can be connected to a phone). Maybe the higher mechanical complexity for analog puts more of an emphasis at the front end, and added cost. Granted, for any type of setup, getting any sound to play can be accomplished for cheap, with higher quality components often bringing better sound.
My thinking is that the turntable/arm, cartridge and phono pre-amp should all be in about the same ballpark, but when you’re starting out it seems obvious to me that you should spend as much of your budget as you can on the table, and upgrade the rest as you can … There are great cartridges for less than 500 bucks, and a galaxy of good phono pre-amps in the same range (or integrated amps with phono sections), but turntable/arm combos really only start being acceptable at $500. But for say a grand, you could put something decent together. Even more decent if you go on the resale market.
Quality of tonearm and cartridge are significant if you plan to play your vinyl more than once. However a lot of people over geek on this aspect, and there is a lot of what I think of as “Steakhouse Unbundling” that goes on. If I go to a regular restaurant, the entree often includes a side soup or salad, and choice of 2 vegetables. At the fancy steakhouse, all you get is the steak, and for $5.95 you can have too much creamed spinach, and another 8 bucks gets some oven toasted French onion soup (does France produce the world supply of soup onions?) and so forth.
A phono preamp - if you need one - can be had in very nice basic form for under $150. I agree with @Steve_Dollar that acceptable (Rega, Music Hall, Pro-Ject, NAD) begin around $500 often with a deal on a base but acceptable cart.
But speakers vary even more than headphones, and I can’t see many instances of wanting to skimp on them with leftover money. Unless you only listen occasionally, and use your headphones most of the time - less common with vinyl. Often overlooked is a good, solid base or place to put the turntable. Feedback from loudspeakers is a real thing - you don’t want the kick drum to kick the cartridge into the next groove. (Well topologically it’s the same groove, but possibly at a different time (in the song (not going into einsteinian physics (because I can’t)))).
