This is mostly unrelated, but I’m genuinely baffled that we can’t seem to make better tubes today than we did 70 years ago. Aside from some select, uber-high-end manufacturers (Takatsuki, and the like), new tubes seem to just be the compromise solution until you can dig up some great NOS tubes. What’s the deal!? 
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I think there are some good new productions, just $$ for them. Often times more than similar NOS.
2a3s have some decent new production options. Some decent new production rectifiers out there.
Just the market is mostly for guitar amps where folks are happy with cheaper but still decent tubes and not full high end. Mass market over high end quality.
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Eventually I suspect some of the Russian tubes will get better and better just as some Chinese tubes improved. For the most part I suspect it is lost technology. I am old enough to have had tube theory in college but I imagine that stopped in the late seventies or eighties in many countries.
Caveat emptor is a must when buying tubes. Russians will call any tube a 1578 just as you will see Sylvania tubes referred to “bad boys” that may not be the real deal. Here is a good example:
RCA black glass are extremely rare and go for big bucks if you ever see them. This is too good to be true for that price. The second photo shows a 247 manufacture code, National Union. RCA’s code was 274. Same here:
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May I ask what chain and sonics you are targeting with the abundance of Sylvania?
My current chain is: Fanless NUC mini-PC running Roon ROCK (server/streamer) → Chord DAVE → Woo WA5-LE → Utopia
(I will soon have a ZMF Pendant to have a shootout with the WA5, but those are totally different tubes)
In terms of sonics, I lean toward clarity, detail, airiness, speed, and holographic imaging. I am not looking to “warm up” or “bulk up” the Utopias. My current favorite tube compliment is as follows:
Power - Genelex Gold Lion 300B (might upgrade to Takatsuki eventually, if the WA5 survives the shootout)
Rectifier - Philips Miniwatt GZ34 (faster, cleaner, less head-room/airiness) or Brimar 5Z4G (slightly slower decay, but more energy and airiness)
Driver - Right now, sticking to those black base, yellow-letter Sylvania 6SN7s, but would love to explore what else is out there.
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I like them. A lot.
Enough that I immediately put in an order for a second set.
Maybe I’ll put up a proper thread for them to say more, so I’ll keep this brief …
Tonally they’re closer to the original WE300B (both pre and post war, I have NOS sets from both periods), than the Takatsuki’s. The Takatsuki’s have a very slight advantage in treble resolution, but the latest WE300B are a little more lucid in the mids, richer, and have a hair more bloom to the upper bass. Image/stage is about on par. Neither have quite the dynamics of the originals, though they’re excellent all the same.
Of all the 300B’s I have at the moment, which is enough that I shouldn’t ever have to buy more for any reason other than accidental damage, I’d rank them from best down as follows:
- Pre-War WE300B (NOS*)
- Post-War WE300B (NOS**)
- 2018 WE300B
- Takastuki 300B
- 1998 WE300B
- EML 300B
I could see people taking the EML 300B over the 1998 WE300B, and the Takatsuki over the 2018 WE300B depending on amplifier and preferences.
After that we’re into Psvane ACME, Elrogs, Sophia and so on … most of the better of which sound excellent. Then it’s into the less premium and/or small production “excellent but not worth the effort to find” tubes.
Interestingly, the 2018 WE300B had an almost identical burn-in experience as my three sets of NOS originals. Which took a couple of hundred hours before the various, spurious, swirlies, whines and mechanical pinging effects fully went away. The Takasuki’s and EMLs needed a few hours at most fo the swirlies (etc.) to fade, and only a few days for the pings from expansion/contraction to abate.
*They were NOS when I got them, though they’ve definitely been used since then! I think these are 1938 builds, but I’d have to look.
**Also NOS when I received them. One set is from 1950 the other from 1954, as I recall.
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Interesting indeed, especially re: EML 300B! I actually had the EML 300B initially, and even though it is probably the technically better tube, I ended up preferring the Genelex. I found the EMLs were quieter, and more controlled bass, but the Genelex were airier and, in particular, seemed to reproduce acoustic instruments more realistically (to my ear).
As to new production WE’s, I’m guessing you must have gotten in on that first run. They’re not even taking orders right now. The best I could do was get on their mailing list. Original Western Electric 300B Vacuum Tube — Western Electric - Maker of electron tubes and high fidelity
I’ve seen a few on the second hand market for twice the price, but at that point, I’d just go Takatsuki, which are readily available.
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Yep, I had pre-ordered within a few minutes of the initial offering going live. And when they finally arrived, I was able to order one more set. Shame they’re not more available.
You can buy some good tubes on ebay, but you need to check feedback carefully and have a way to test the tubes. I’ve bought some real gems on fleabay, but I buy from guys who advertise test results, and I have the tools to check them. Most readings have been dead on accurate. My primary go to tube guy passed away (erscvacuumtubes). He sold stuff very cheap, and if you had a bad tube, he’d send a new one out - no hassles. Most of his stuff wasn’t tested.
If you don’t have a tester, or have access to one, it can be hard to know what your getting. Lots of fakes too. That said, I’ve also caught one of the named tube dealers tried to sell me some used, mariginal tubes (70 percent) as NOS. When I called them out on it, they sent out good ones (Matsu National 7DJ8s).
Note: That dealer is a well known tube guy, and immediately replaced them once I made it clear I had a tester, and offered up the results.
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Nice. I lean toward the same direction with my Qutest > ampsandsound Mogwai SE > ZMF Verite Closed chain. I just got the amp and will likely pursue certain Sylvania, National Union, Telefunken and other German tubes that have this desired sound signature.
Enjoy the music.
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Much of my work has been with 6sn7 equivalents and local friends and I developed a rating system and specific music recorded to show off 25 different characteristics of tubes in blind testing. We are close to narrowing down the top 52 but need to wait till it is safe to meet again. We are using Incubus Elegan amps and Senn HD 800 headphones. Equivalents can include those produced in other countries as well as single triode versions such as 6j5’s and 7A4’s. A couple of the Russian Melz tubes have scored in the mid to upper 90’s on a 100 point scale. A couple were never in production, engineering prototypes passed down to a grandson by a former RCA engineer. Some are fairly easy to price but not those lol. Many are in the $25 to $1,000 range.
If we ever get this test concluded we will move on to 6as7/6080 equivalents.
I might listen to a person who likes this or that tube but I believe in the accuracy of large numbers so 50 people will be used for final rating and testing. In the final mix are audio engineers, performing artists, audiophiles etc.
Oh on my home system I use Focal Utopias on an amp I designed and built to my own taste in SQ. I run a few different DACS but my daily listen is a Gungnir.
I generally run class A amps, most of them are tube amps.
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Those are volume knobs I made using rainbow poplar as I recall, with a copper front.
Those are stepped resistor pots using Dale resistors. I put left and right single gang pots on my own amps. I like the ability to turn either channel up or down a bit individually.
Here is a better look. The honey locust wood is so pretty I did not want pots protruding from the front so I added patina to copper supports to match an 1/8 inch copper top. I am using a socket saver on a 6sn7 tube just because I plug lots of different tubes in the amp.
This wood is not easy to find in this thickness and quality, I have turned down some fairly high offers for it, but it is not for sale, I will pass it down to my son.
I used the same type of pots on this build.
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Is it easy to keep the channels in synch on those occasions that you don’t need to turn one up or down? Do you just do it by ear?
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I have VU meters I can switch throughout my amps and sources so it is easy to set levels. Standard parts are trickier also, these have fixed steps so you often just look at the markers on the knobs.
In a perfect world all tubes have perfectly matched triode sections but realistically one channel can be lower or higher. That is why the VU meters help, side by side I can compare signal in and signal out of a given amp. Since I take up a pre-amp out on some headphone amps, I even build extras into the VU meter boxes that I make
And I build them into amps, or incorporate them into smaller systems.
.
This works for me but might not be for every one. Naturally I build all of my own cables, racks, etc.
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Good to see you around again, Tom. Quite an undertaking of you and your group, with informative results/observations once finished.
I consider various/multiple data points as a reference, before making a decision. Here, his impressions of Sylvania line up with my expectations based on other reference points.
Is your Gungnir the Multibit or delta sigma version?
The Incvbus Elegan is looking good.
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My Gungnir is multibit, as is my Bifrost 2, as is an add on card for my Lyr 3. As far as Delta Sigma I have owned various Topping DACS, one tested as high as sixth in a blind DAC test my group did. Winner was the Aqua La Voce 3 but we kept DAC cost under $5k each. Friends donated dacs and it seemed unfair to have someone with a $10k dac be told that his DAC finished far down the list, and it could happen lol.
Incubus spelling. Like this when anglicized, the Latin version is Incvbvs since U’s appeared as V’s. A friend in the Netherlands made the brass badges and used the Latin version. Translation is elegant nightmare, a long story and a boring one. 
Our tube testing is not for everyone but several friends and I got together, most of them smarter than me, to come up with a system. We are eliminating price as well as expectation bias. A $25 tube gets the same treatment as those selling for much more. Imagine ordering a tube for $250 and you have read that it is a wonderful tube and everyone should have one. Can you plug that tube into an amp and not feel it has to be better sounding than a $15 Foton, or $50 RCA or Sylvania? Price and expectation come into play. Now you sit down without knowledge of what four tubes are and listen to the same music with each, score them one at a time without knowing if one is a GEC or Tung Sol BGRP, or Sylvania Bad Boy or whatever. Do that 13 times with four sets of tubes and score them individually. 49 other people do the same thing. At the very end you are allowed to hear any of the 52 played against other tubes you choose by tube number, 1-52 no brands or types are known. In the music selections you know you are comparing specifics like soundstage and timbre and you rate each tube accordingly. Sound levels are kept as close as possible, the tubes are concealed in such a way that you never know if you are listening to single or dual triode tubes. An average is taken of the scores and that final number is where the tube rates. 8 of us went through that process to decide which 52 tubes are finally chosen. To me it is wonderful to know that there may still be tubes selling for $25-$50 that outscore those costing hundreds. One tube eight of us rated 97 may go down considerably when 50 people hear it, or we might find that eight of us were pretty close lol.
We have used this methodology with DAC’s, solid state amps, and even headphone cables. Within headphone cables I had one young lady with exceptional hearing who could consistently pick different wire types she heard blind. Others might do that with two out of ten or such, but not ten of ten. Mind you she does not know occ from litz from ofc but can tell you a wire in position 5 in the first round is now in position 7 or whatever.
With tubes I prefer headphones, speakers can be a little tricky depending on how many people are listening at the time and their location in the room.
I should also mention I pay little attention when one person rates a piece of audio equipment, or a cable, or a tube, but that is just me. If a person in their home enjoys this or that, more power to them…enjoy the music.
Oh and I get busy with other things so I had not been around much.
Tom
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You make a good point on tube selection. It really can be system dependent or USER dependent. You might like Mullard, and I might like Telefunken.
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These blind tests sound fascinating. Are you able and willing to publish your results for tests you’ve already done? Or have you already published them elsewhere?
That kind of information would provide valuable data for people, just as valuable as someone posting a review. And of course anyone who would nit-pick how “blind” your testing was can just ignore the results.
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