Anyone here with better computer skills than me that can take Audiofanatyk’s LCDi3 measurements for the Cipher V2 and enter them into Jaako’s AutoEq to generate a 10 band EQ that we can enter and use with the Audeze HQ ios app?
Here are the links for the measurements and the AutoEQ instructions:
https://www.audiofanatyk.pl/wp-cont…-compare-frequency-response-graph-1900-02.jpg
I entered the 10 data points in Audeze HQ App from Harman 2019 IE into excel, then rounded them, calculated the slope between them, then entered the same points from AF’s Cipher V2 measurements, added 5db to all of these to get the big 4k dip within striking distance of the EQ app, then applied the necessary EQ to match the slope of the Harman 2019 IE. The Cipher V2 EQ values are in the box. Let me know what you think.
Time for me to chime in with some quickish impressions.
Just read through this entire thread, having bought a used pair of iSINE 20s from @Earmuffs, followed a few weeks later by the LCD-i3’s because @taronlissimore dangled a tempting “used gear” offer that included a warranty. I’m very good at resisting anything except temptation. Both had the newer cipher cables, the i3 had the full standard kit.
I’m not going to do a full “review” because @Resolve’s review at the top of this thread is quite good. We differ on a few points, which I’ll get to now.
I see that @Resolve says the i3’s case is “plastic” and I’ve seen this in other reviews also. Audeze’ website says that like the i4, it is “cast magnesium”. The only way I know to test this is destructively, but my fingernail scratch-tap test seems to feel something different and harder on the i3 compared to the iSINE 20. I vote for magnesium.
I do have an iPhone, the same venerable iPhone 6+ that @mulberry_madness seems to have. I am also able to test a bit on my wife’s iPhone 11 Pro. I use the Cipher lightning cable almost all the time, but tested the Bluetooth cable also. I can confirm that Siri gets along well with the Bluetooth. When I make calls, I have had people say that I was a bit faint using the Cipher Lightning, but not with the Bluetooth. When I use the Cipher Lightning, I now make sure I am speaking directly into the mic.
Because @Resolve is not over-involved in the Apple ecosystem, he did not get to try out the EQ on the iPhone/iPad that Audeze supplies as its integrated software. With the newer 4 button Cipher cable, you need to use the Audeze HQ app. That app integrates some other software with the Cipher HQ. Half of this app is dedicated to the Audeze Mobius and 3D sound. Until you realize this, it will lead you on a merry chase, having you take photos of your face and ear. Not necessary. Just tap the EQ on the bottom. EQ function is brilliantly simple, and with the cable and phones plugged into your iPhone, it sets your cable automatically as you select and use one of 2 presets.
Comparing the two, iSINE 20 and i3, I like the bronze and Tie-Fighter look of the 20 better. When I put on the i3, I feel like I’m putting on a white shirt, tie and 2 piece business suit. Sound of the i3 is noticably fuller all around, more extended bass and treble, perhaps a bit less punch in the mids, but certainly not lacking. If you have the 20, there is no actual pressing need to get the i3, unless you plan to give the 20 to your spouse because she’s a Journey / Arnel Pineda fangirl,
The other reason I got these is because I AM in the Apple ecosystem, and the cipher cable’s integrated DAC makes for very light traveling.
One criticism I’ve heard is regarding sound leakage. Mostly IN. I get that it might not be so good for on an airplane for that. As far as leakage out, it’s pretty minor, so any co-worker that might be disturbed is probably an inveterate whiner that deserves whatever annoyances you can inflict on them.
My ears, iPhone, and experience appear to be similar (simian?) to @mulberry_madness’ but my feelings about this earphone appear to differ significantly. Normally, I don’t care for EQ, but this is in part because of the irritating software part of EQ, or the expensive hardware part of EQ. I have a LOKI, so I’m fine with “tone control”. The Audeze Cipher EQ is just fine. Simple and nearly invisible. Further, the Audeze EQ provided on ROON works quite well also.
I like the large for an IEM soundstage provided by both the iSINE 20 and the LCDi3. I’ve tried both the “earfin” and the ear clip method of attaching or placing the iSine. I’m staying with the clip for now. The fins work, but there is more security with the clip. I did find that some care must be taken with the clips. While trying to put on a substitute tip, I somehow scratched the coating off of one clip, and could see a wire inside. I thought these were 3D printed, but apparently not completely.
I wish that @mulberry_madness would post again. It seems odd that he came here, apparently for 3 hours, wrote several posts about how he did not care for the LCDi3, then left. I’d like to see more of what he writes, so I could understand more about his preferences and where he was coming from. We both like electrostatics, and both got wasted at concerts in the 70’s apparently. Although I remember a fair amount about most of them.
Mr. m_madness did ask about tips. I found that Audeze supplies both ribbed and smooth tips. (get your minds out of the gutter). I also saw recommendations that one try Spinfit CP-145 tips even though the CP-155s are what should fit. The idea was that the smaller tip would fit deeper in the ear. Forget that idea. Not only are they QUITE difficult to put on, they provide little comfort or room for the pliable silicone to move. Right now I’m using Spinfit CP-155 mediums on them. These seem to provide reasonable comfort and a slightly better seal than stock Audeze tips. The issue is one of design - these are not designed or required to seal. There’s a honking-big 30 mm case outside your ear, and the nozzle will only set so deeply into the ear canal. That’s how they are. Get used to it, it’s worth it.
I’m a known skinflint and tightwad. If I didn’t think these were worth it, you know I’d say so. And I wouldn’t have gone for the i3’s after getting the 20s. I have been looking for a good quality IEM for a while, and the issues of comfort were a big concern. Nor was I overly impressed with the sound, although models with 10mm dynamic drivers seemed OK. These babies are an entirely different story. I don’t think I’m going to be looking for flagship IEMs or something better any time soon.
The 20’s were nice to use while my fiance was sleeping next to me. They never bothered her like even my closed backs did
Enjoy them, they are really good!
The earfin is working better for me, they keep the fit in an incredible way.
What a great writeup. As always as with everything you write it is also very entertaining.
Another approach is to try to adapt the fixed band AutoEQ settings for Crinicle’s measurement of the CipherBT to the CipherV2 - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/Audeze LCD-i3 (Cipher bluetooth)
If we assume based on AF’s measurements that the CipherV2 is pretty much the same as the CipherBT except for more bass in 30-250hz and more treble from 2k-10k we can make the following adjustments:
leave the bass alone - the improved bass quantity and slope in AF’s measurements look like they are right on target
make the same adjustments to the mids 250-1000k
lower the adjustments to the treble in the 2k-10k range by -2
| Peaking | 31 Hz | 1.41 | 0 dB |
|---|---|---|---|
| Peaking | 62 Hz | 1.41 | 0 dB |
| Peaking | 125 Hz | 1.41 | 0 dB |
| Peaking | 250 Hz | 1.41 | -3 dB |
| Peaking | 500 Hz | 1.41 | -3 dB |
| Peaking | 1000 Hz | 1.41 | -6 dB |
| Peaking | 2000 Hz | 1.41 | -2 dB |
| Peaking | 4000 Hz | 1.41 | 4 dB |
| Peaking | 8000 Hz | 1.41 | 4 dB |
| Peaking | 16000 Hz | 1.41 | 1 dB |
One thing to keep in mind is that Crinicle measured a pretty big peak at 1k on the CipherBT and AF did not.
This sounds pretty good to me and an improvement on my first attempt. Let me know what you think.
Also, I’ve found that the earfin+earhook+medium smooth tips combo works best for me.
Anybody have any comments, pointers, tips or tricks for the Cipher Bluetooth cable. I finally overcame my reluctance to even try it because well, wires are groovy.
From TIDAL, I was playing a DOORS stream, and it cut out a few times, had to restart. I was playing loudly, don’t know if that can be an issue. Curiously, on this stream, even though it was supposed to be Master, it seemed to come through lower quality. Like Normal. Perhaps just this item, because Lee Ritenour is coming through in higher quality, and things I have downloaded also.
It appears there is no way to adjust the EQ. Playing through my iPhone +, the AUDEZE HQ app doesn’t do anything (like it does with a wired CIPHER cable). Nor am I able to select Audeze presets in ROON. (That seems to work with either wired cable, but is designed for the standard, non CIPHER cable).
I only used the bluetooth cable a couple of times at the early weeks with i3, not happy with the outcome , never did it again.
It was not cutting out, but performance was mediocre compared to wire performance. Volumen is low and resolution is also affected with the bluetooth.
Anyone here have any idea how I could maybe get my i3 + Cipher V2 working thru the Type-C out on my Cayin N3 Pro? I recently screwed up my other dap (Shanling M3s) by accidentally inserting a micro SD card into its slot sideways while driving in the dark, and the i3 + Cipher V2 worked perfectly with it for some reason. But when I hook it up to the N3 Pro, I’m not able to control the volume whether from the Cipher buttons nor the N3 Pro itself. Tried switching the “DAC” settings; no luck, either. But I did just order a Hiby N3 Pro as a replacement, and I’m praying the i3s will work with Cipher thru it…
Not sure it would work on the Cayin, but I have used the Anker USB-C to Lighting adapter with my iPad M1 and the LCDi3. It is designed for audio only.
Available at other places, but I wanted to show you a pic.
The specs say it’s certified to work with most of the similar Audeze planars. Like I say, I tried it with the LCDi3 and it was fine in my use case.
Sorry! I forgot to add I’m using the Anker adapter with the Cayin already; my bad…
