Closed back headphones

If you are looking for a reliable solution, the DT770 Pro with 80 ohms would actually be my choice.

It is relatively easy to drive, very comfortable, lasts a lifetime as you can replace each part individually and have been able to get spare parts for decades, and it is extremely robust.

The sound is still above average in its class.

The FiiO FT1 may also be an alternative as it gets pretty good reviews, but I doubt whether it will last as long as a Beyerdynamic.

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Just plan your next vacation in Europe, it would be a pleasure for me to show you around, as you know that was once part of my job.

Then we can do a detailed hearing test of all my portfolio………….

AND finally You get to know good and successful football in the south of Germany……

image

Football? Right now it’s the Cyclones vs the Hurricanes in the Pop Tarts Bowl. Nothing in Europe will ever beat that billing for sheer kitsch.

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Yep. I forget you mentioned that at the beginning of your post. I have the 250-ohm version, and am currently working on an EQ profile for it.

A simple downward slope somewhere on the order of -5 dB (give or take) can help to tame the brightness on the DT770.

It won’t fix some the narrower band tonal imbalances though.

It can be a start though (and certainly a step in the right direction imo).

I am not a fan of the DT770 Pro 250 ohm. I purchased it and sold it due to my dislike for the unpleasant tuning. I then bought DT770 Pro 250 ohm again thinking I might be able to pair it with something to fix it’s shortcomings. Failed, and sold it again. Finally, for my third pair I went with DT770 Pro 80 ohm and it has been part of the collection since. So, if you end up not liking your DT770 Pro 250 ohm, perhaps try to find an 80 ohm version to try out.

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Appreciate the suggestion, hottyson. I was lucky enough to try both the 80 and 250 ohm versions when I bought the latter. And am happy with that choice.

The 80 ohm has a slightly different sound imo, and is a bit louder. So could be a better choice if you don’t use an amp. I preferred the sound (except the brightness) of the 250 though, and use it with a little dedicated solid state amp.

I’m currently looking for a new open-back headphone and some speakers. I’d be willing to consider upgrading the DT770 though as well, if I could find something with similar or better comfort, build quality, and affordability, with a better default tuning. The tuning on the 80 ohm is similar enough that it wouldn’t quite work for that.

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This is how Resolve and DMS’s top 3 tiers ended up, I believe.

S TIER:
DCA E3

A TIER:
DCA Noire X
Drop + DCA Aeon Closed X
Fiio FT1
Focal Azurys
ZMF Caldera Closed
ZMF Verite Closed

B TIER:
AKG K371/361
Audio-Technica ATH-W2022
DCA Stealth
Focal Celestee
Focal Radiance
Meze Liric II
Sennheiser HD620S
Sony MDR-M1
ZMF Atrium Closed
ZMF Bokeh Closed

The anointing of FT1 continues. Would have to look at the comments and measurements again. But if I had the extra $$ lyin around, I think I might also be tempted into trying out the Drop + DCA Aeon Closed X. Think I’ll save my bucks for a nice open-back though.

(Still shakin my head on the K361. :slight_smile: )

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You should. I have both the E3 and the Closed X right now. If you’re into extensive EQing, the Closed X can sound extremely good. Let’s just say I’m struggling to have a preference between the E3 and the Closed X after EQing both to my liking. To me they’re both equally amazing.

The E3 does have better build quality and better matched drivers, and it’s a little bit more comfortable and portable. But at 4x the price? I’d literally rank both after EQ the same. I think S and A tier without EQing is fair enough. To me the E3’s design reduces or eliminates most of the peaks and wobbles of the treble range, which is why so many people think it sounds amazing. If you’re into EQing that region to fit your own personal hearing, then that advantage is nullified.

As for the FT1, no one mentions this, but I find the sound stage very closed and narrow. Maybe it’s just how it works on my head since it doesn’t seem to be a point that any of the reviewers talk about. To me the tonality of the FT1 (tried 2 copies a few months apart) is a B+, but the soundstage is a D. It’s really good if you don’t or cannot EQ, but otherwise I don’t find them to be that entertaining nor well built. It is cheap so there’s that.

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Have you tried this profile from oratory1990?

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Thanks for your insights on all the above, Luke. Including the FT1.

So just to be clear, I am NOT really into extensive EQ-ing. :slight_smile: And that’s one of the reasons I’m looking for some new headphones (and speakers) that are closer to neutral than the ones I’ve owned in the past.

It’s generally easier to fix issues with FR though than distortion or symmetry. So that’s why these two characteristics are equally (if not more) important to me as a headphone’s FR. A headphone like the DT770 presents some special challenges from the standpoint of FR and EQ though, because it has not only some broader band issues (imo), but also a few narrower band dips and peaks that are a bit more difficult to address. So this is one of the reasons I’m open to replacing them with something different.

Symmetry issues result in poorer stereo imaging though imo. And distortion can result in both a lack of clarity and also a more closed in sound imo (sort of like you described on the FT1). So that’s why I prefer headphones that can perform well in not just one, but all of these areas.

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Yes. And thank you for the suggestion btw. I’ve also tried his EQ settings for the DT770 with worn earpads. And also Jaakko’s AutoEQ settings as well. They aren’t a bad place to start. But don’t quite work for me, because I think the Harman target on which they’re based is a little bit off in a few areas.

The DF+SP model I use is similar to Harman, and also rooted in the same general idea that the in-ear response of neutral speakers in a semi-reflective room is likely a better baseline or starting point for a headphone’s response than the other alternatives (such as diffuse or free field). This is what both Tyll Hertsens of Inner Fidelity and also Paul Barton of PSB/NAD believed. And it was largely confirmed by the Harman research. And it’s also what my own ears, experience, and the measurements of many good headphones tells me is likely correct.

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See if the Noire x or the e3 is within your budget then. Like I said, the e3 is pretty much magically free of major dips and peaks in the treble that every other headphones I’ve owned suffered from, so the tech inside definitely works.

Personally I don’t see why one wouldn’t give it a go for free with better EQ methods, but it’s not like I don’t see the point of more expensive and well engineered headphones either, after all I’m keeping the e3 myself.

One thing I’ve noticed is that up above 7000hz, every headphones I own have varied and mismatched responses. Excluding the major wave cancellation dips, even the best headphones still have a couple db of left right wobble that changes with frequency, and most of them slightly more than that. It’s just the nature of asymmetrical ear and canals plus product and driver variance.

I find that fixing those with eq tightens up imaging quite a bit, but it’s tedious to say the least. Anyway just wanna say I absolutely agree with you about the imaging issues.

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Thanks again, Luke. The Noire X and E3 are both out of range of my budget for a closed back at this time. As I think about this though, there are a few other things I’d be looking for in a new closed back headphone. Some of these sort of go hand in hand, but they are…

  • Has HBK 5128 measurements
  • Easy to EQ
  • Simple driver design (iow, probably no AMTS)
  • Driver made from higher quality, lower-distorting materials

I also lean more towards dynamic than planar drivers. Though I’ve never actually tried a headphone with the latter (and probably should at some point), The 5128 measurements also add value to a headphone, because they work best with my current method of EQ.

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So what options out there fits your criteria?

I just purchased akg k371 online and will get it in the next week or so. Got it just to test and play more with eq and see how far I could take cheaper headphones. Ever tried them?

If not let me know if you’re interested and I can report back and try your eq methods, see if these headphones would be any good for you.

hey. is the akg k550/553 still relevant nowadays or would you guys say theres no reason to get one over a k371/ft1?

Had a look on reddit, seems like people who’s owned both says the K371 sounds as good, with fewer build quality issues.

Fedex is holding my K371 hostage, I’m waiting to get it to compare to my other closed backs, Dan Clark E3, Aeon RT Closed, and GSP 600.

k371? did you mean k553?

No, I bought a K371 to test out.

Here’s some reddit threads about the k550 vs k371
https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/wwy467/rip_akg_k550_you_were_just_15_months_away_from/

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/dcsi0k/akg_k371_quick_impressions/

alright, thanks. from what my experience and what i’ve seen, the k371 didn’t have the best reputation for its build quality which is why I asked.

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Unknown at this time, Luke.

I have absolutely tried the K371. Quite extensively. And came close to taking a couple pairs home during the pandemic, but ultimately decided to try the 250-ohm Beyer DT770 instead.

There were multiple factors at work against the K371 in my case. Build quality was certainly a big one. I didn’t think they were sturdy enough for the heavy uses I intended. There were other factors related to things like consistency, seal, FR, symmetry, QC that also went into the decision. In the end, I just felt like the DT770 would be a more solid performer for my needs.

I’m always interested to hear different takes though on these headphones. And look forward to your impressions and comparisons with the other gear. I recently found a store near me that is associated with Guitar Center, and have been looking through what’s available there, and also through Headphones.com to try out.

The K550/3 is still relevant, I would say. But I don’t really recommend it. I believe the K371 and K553 use the same drivers. So they have somewhat similar sound quality. The earpads are much bigger and plusher on the K553, and the FR is a little different. The K371 is more sensitive though, and hence a bit louder. The K371 is actually one of the loudest studio type over-ear headphones I’ve listened to. And I think that is probaby one of the reasons for its popularity.

I don’t really recommend the K371 or K361 though. But at the same time, I don’t have alot of great alternatives to offer on these either. I haven’t heard the Fiio FT1 yet. And it sounds like there are a couple mechanical issues being sorted out on that model, which is not unusual for a new product btw. I also have not heard the latest Shure closed backs, like the SRH840A. Or new Sony MDR-M1. That leaves the Beyer DT770, AT M50X, and Sony MDR-7506 in this price range, and maybe one or two others I’m forgettin. And I can’t give an unqualified thumbs up on these either.

I suppose the best you can do is look at the pros/cons of each, and try to find one that will best suit your particular needs/requirements.

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