I’ve owned 3 AS amps, with a 4th in produciton. First an OG Pendant, then a Pendant SE, third a Kenzie Ovation, and shortly, a Kenzie OG Rev 2. The OG Pendant was a super early production model before some silent revisions, and was noisy on the 300ohm tap with all my 300ohm headphones (VC, Atticus, Eikon, Auteur, and HD650). Despite the noise floor I was in love with the tonal character of the amp and when Zach let me know of the SE, I sold the OG and put my $ down on the SE. The SE was noticeably quieter. With the right tube combination on the high z 100ohm tap it was slightly noisy with my VC. But all in all the noise floor is not what I would say is unbearable or unlivable. totally a preference thing though, i don’t knock anyone who is put off by it. my Kenzie Ovation is super quiet good tubes in it. no real noise floor that i notice, it’s just not a black background. more like grey, like there’s something there, but i can’t specifically identify it. to die for tonality per my tastes, hence the purchase of an OG Kenzie to take to work. it’s much smaller with a similar (hopefully!) sound signature, and will just fit on my desk. the Ovation is a big beast that is not work desk friendly. full disclosure i am selling my pendant SE as it just doesn’t have a place in my rotation anymore. i tried it at work but there’s too much interference near it on my desk, with monitors, a printer, check scanner, tower pc, and a few other wireless devices. plus the server room is below me and that is where our wireless routers are. its an interference nightmare. i’m getting a DNA Stratus in a year and will let it and the Ovation battle it out for home amp duties. hope that helps, ask any follow ups if you want to know more about my experiences. i saw the flame up on the DNA page, I don’t think that was fair to Justin, honestly. he’s been nothing but wonderful in all my interactions with him. and i have no reason to question his design choices. i did get to hear a Nautilus for maybe 30-45 mins and it was silent on an HD800S, VC, LCD2 Closed, and i think a Rad-o (not 100% sure on the last model, I can picture it but drawing a blank on the name). if i could sell a kidney i’d do it for that amp hahaha.
Mogwai SE and Forge. My friend also owned a different Mogwai SE that has this problem and has also experienced it with the Rockwell.
Headphones: Focal Utopia, HD800, Verite, HD650, some audeze. Varying noise depending on headphone and tap but 300 is almost always unusable imo.
The owners of the amps also recognize that there is a noise floor and depending on tubes combination it can get worst or better. I am sensitive to any noise so having any hum, buzz, static really irritates me personally. I do know some people can be more okay with it.
My buddies who own the amp recognized this was a thing, and have been rolling tubes to lower it. They aren’t as bothered by it and still love the amp which is fair. I haven’t tried all of his amps, but the 3 I have all had this. I do know others mention they don’t have any noise. I don’t believe their hearing is that different so this leads me to believe that either they have a good set of tubes in terms of noise floor, or there is a big variance between each person’s amp, which is it’s own problem imo.
I wouldn’t ever disparage anybody’s decision to get an A&S and I even talk and congratulate many people and friends for their purchases. I just want people to be aware of this before purchasing as it seems to be a relatively common occurrence among me and others.
Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience. Can’t say I’ve had the same experience but I tend to roll tubes at least a little.
I do wonder what DACs people are running, as the input impedances on most tube amps with low feedback tend to be much lower than a typical solid state amp. I tend to theoretically agree with 1:1 coupling, but sometimes having the bass be a little tighter from a lower ratio can be nice. I do find it curious that some people report lots of noise and I’ve never once had the issue, but I suppose that diversity is part of what makes this hobby so interesting. Appreciate your thoughts.
As a counterpoint, you are asking for specifics regarding what cans, tubes and DACs they are using that allow them to hear noise, so what equipment are you using that you find noiseless with what A&S amps? Would be a good benchmark and also point people in a direction they may take if they wish to lower the noise floor on A&S amps.
If you have a post where you already mentioned that I missed I’d be interested to read it.
Edit: @Grover (didnt reply directly to you so you may not be appropriately flagged)
Didn’t want to get the thread too off track but I’ve tried the Forge (6L6 + KT88) Kenzie OG, Agartha, Rockwell and Nautilus (KT88) and not had issues. All using stock provided tubes.
DACs have been Gungnir MB, Matrix X-Sabre Pro, Bifrost 2, and RME DAC FS.
Cans have included ZMF verite, Audeze XC, 4, 2, Focal Utopia and HD800.
I do sometimes trim the output on the dacs to give me more volume pot play on the high power tubes like KT88s but typically have not had an issue with any audible noise or hiss.
For what It’s worth I have not had any issues with most headphone tube amps being noisy outside of some cheaper OTLs like the darkvoice. Most of the places I’ve lived have fairly clean electrical and I tend to keep the amp far away from other electrical devices. Noise from my cell phone or a wifi router being near the tubes is definitely a thing I’ve experienced!
Me either, except the pendant, it was annoying enough for me to strike future A&S amps off my list. To be fair to both Zach and Justin they paid t]for me to ship the amp back to A&S, and when that didn’t fix it, offered to take the amp back. I just don’t want to deal with the hassle again.
As I said though my pendant had a faint hum on the 300 Ohm out into my VC, the guy I sold it to doesn’t hear the hum, so it was environmental. But that doesn’t excuse it when literally no other tube amp I have here (and I have many) exhibits the same thing.
I hear your point and thanks for sharing.
Many of my amps have a lot of tap choices almost no other amp maker does. With high efficiency cans or sensitive one, judge it then by the 32ohm tap like most of my counter parts supply. The additional taps allow for rolling of sorts but the noise floor and power delivery are different on each tap. I’ve tried to educate on that but perhaps I need to do more. If I was like everyone else with 1 tap at~ 32ohms we would have this noise floor conversation I don’t think, but I see value in more closely matching to the voice coil. Not a perfect solution and not without compromise. On balance I find a 300ohm headphone sounding it’s best on 300ohm output. If noise floor exists, adjusting down to the 100 or 32 has solved this.
I also understand that dropping impedance helps planer guys get more bass control.
Re consistency of builds. We are extremely rigorous on this fact and they are measured with results recorded prior to leaving. When we have used an AP test suite we get within 2% with same tubes used. Meaning they are clones of each other unit to unit. Preformatted text
So, this guy goes to his doctor. He tells him “Doc, it really hurts when I do this!”
Doc says “Then stop doing it.”
I hope your slapstick will get us back to the normally scheduled program from A&S drama 
This is a DNA thread. I’m outies. DN build fantastic amps. I hope at some point in 2022 we can have a mini meet with a EC, DN and AAS. Would be so cool. Schiit can be the front end.
Closing this temporarily until we can do some sorting.
Starting this because it seems the official thread is locked and has been for a long time.
I’ve come across thoughts that the elekit tu8600 fully upgraded is in the same ‘league’ as stellaris. But I guess a different brighter/faster/more linear sound. Anyone do elekit vs dna comparison ?
Can we please just open the stellaris thread back up?
Not that it’s impossible for less expensive equipment to outperform (or be preferred to) more expensive equipment, but even then, they’re usually in the same ballpark. A Stellaris (without upgrades) is nearly 4x the price of that amp, so I would approach any such claims with extreme skepticism.
Amen! Mine is finally arriving later this month, and I’ll want to post alllll about it! 
@andris I think this way of thinking if quite problematic. I have regularly found less expensive gear to be as good or better than much more expensive gear.
I prefer assessing gear from a price agnostic perspective and not fall into the trap of more expensive = better.
Of course! I don’t think I ever said more expensive = better. I went out of my way to say that it happens all the time, but I also noted that (in my experience), that outperformance tends to be in the same ballpark of price (let’s say +/- 75%). While there are always exceptions, it’s pretty uncommon for something that costs multiples of another to sound worse - at least on the higher end of things, and especially for well-regarded equipment.
I have nothing against the Elekit, and I have never heard it, so I will by no means try to make an assessment here one way or another. I’m sure it’s a great amp!
However, while amp topology and design matters a lot, so do the parts and materials, and at a certain point, a designer simply becomes price constrained. For example, transformers are one of the most expensive parts of an amp, and they also are one of the most important for great sound. While a designer who spends as much on transformers as another spends on an entire amp could screw it up and make a worse amp, a good amp designer is unlikely to. Same goes for resistors, potentiometers, wiring, etc.
Anyway, all I was trying to say was that, if the Stellaris is considered a capably built amp (which it pretty universally is), and the Elekit is considered a capably built amp (which it seems like it is), it would be quite a mountain to climb for one to objectively outperform the other.
Subjectively, sure! Some people like a Focal Clear more than the Utopia. Good for them! But I think it’s completely fair to approach any such comparison with skepticism, and generally (not always, but generally) assume you’ll land on liking an item that is 4x the price of another.
I am very happy to agree to disagree.
While there are always exceptions, it’s pretty uncommon for something that costs multiples of another to sound worse
The simple defeater here is taste. Someone might like for example the warm, euphonic warm sound of a bottlehead crack over the more linear, fast and resolving sound of the elekit… for them the crack is superior yet it costs about 1/10 the price of the tu8600.
Your principle of price and performance has not been my experience and its not a good way to approach a comparison and should be completely disgarded (aside from budget and perceived valued based on preferences of the item). But again I am happy to agree to disagree.
Subjectively, sure! Some people like a Focal Clear more than the Utopia. Good for them! But I think it’s completely fair to approach any such comparison with skepticism, and generally (not always, but generally) assume you’ll land on liking an item that is 4x the price of another.
I’d argue the better strategy is just to simply listen to bother devices or if not possible get feedback from others who potentially have similar taste and who you trust to determine if auditioning is appropriate/worth it. Skepticism really would only be useful if considering nearly blind buying based on 1 set of impressions which someone shouldn’t do period (unless there is a good exit strategy or they are filthy rich and don’t are).
However, while amp topology and design matters a lot, so do the parts and materials, and at a certain point, a designer simply becomes price constrained. For example, transformers are one of the most expensive parts of an amp, and they also are one of the most important for great sound. While a designer who spends as much on transformers as another spends on an entire amp could screw it up and make a worse amp, a good amp designer is unlikely to. Same goes for resistors, potentiometers, wiring, etc.
Again factoring in voicing, intelligence of design, direct to consumer model, value in diy are all variables that should be considered and I think your approach is far too simplistic. I accept that the majority of people will likely prefer an HD650 over a $20 headphone from a random company… (still maybe not everyone)… but we are comparing a $3000 diy tube amp from japan to a $9000 tube head amp from USA. My approach is simply… who has heard both that can comment… rather than price = performance induced skepticism.
Anyway I said enough and will try not to respond further as we are getting highly off topic.
Right - absolutely. I definitely was talking more price-for-price, character-for-characer.
I’d be very curious (genuinely) to hear about your experiences on headphone-related gear where you’ve heard a less expensive piece of gear outperform a sonically-similar (in character), meaningfully-more-expensive piece of gear (let’s say 100% or more of a price difference).