Focal Bathys Wireless HiFi Headphones with Active Noise Cancellation - Official Discussion Thread

[newernow]

Double post from head-fi that I also want to share with you guys here:

Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.1 Audio Cable Review

Alright guys, since I got very intrigued by @LifeAspect ´s and @coldbru ´s mentioning of the Wireworld Starlight 8 USB 3.1 cable, I reached out to the German distributor and asked for an example of the 1 meter cable in exchange for an honest review (using the cable with my Bathys). I was a musician and producer about 15 years ago but changed my career and got a writer … as well as an audiophile listener.

Back then when I had the Focal Stellia in my possession, I already reviewed some cables for other boutique manufacturers, although these (e.g. silver/palladium) cables were priced around 2k $, and so about 10 times as expensive as the Wireworld cable. It was a completely different take as they were cables for analogue signals and I used them with my LGPT Ti DAP. So it was a VERY expensive „portable“ rig I had about two years ago. But back to the Bathys:

When I got these headphones, I mainly used them with the original USB-C cable from Focal (and my Samsung Galaxy s10e).

But first things first: the EQ

I only use them with this EQ

-2.5db/62Hz
-2db/250Hz
+1.5db/1kHz
+2db/4kHz
+1.5db/16kHz

Which is a slight alteration of what @Nomax suggests (thanks again for your findings with your “golden ears”)

BUT as some albums are mastered rather quietly (such as: Stevie Wonder - Talking Book, Steely Dan - Two Against Nature, Bab Marley and the Wailers albums etc. etc.) I just boosted all frequencies across the whole spectrum for exactly 4 dB, which afterwards looks like this:

+1.5db/62Hz
+2db/250Hz
+5.5db/1kHz
+6db/4kHz
+5.5db/16kHz

I tested it: It sounds the same as above, doesn’t distort etc. It just makes everything louder and gives you more headroom to play with on the mobile phone or laptop. BUT please take care of your ears! Of course you have to make the music quieter when listening to „normal compressed“ modern music. In fact the Focal engineers knew that they had to implement the EQ in a way so that boosting all frequencies doesn’t distort the sound by any way and just makes it … well, louder.

Anyways, this EQ, in my opinion, is what an album should sound like. How would I know that? Well, I spent uncountable hours of my life in studios with recording-, mixing- and mastering-engineers. So at least I know how the albums I produced myself should sound like. This EQ comes closest to that feeling I had back then in the mixing- and mastering studios (and probably also approaches the Harman curve).

So, now that we’ve got that covered, I’d like to get back to the USB cables. With the original Focal USB-C cable, I didn’t find anything to complain about sound wise. But at the same time I sensed that the Bathys could squeeze out more (better sounding) music with the right cable. I came to that conclusion because at the beginning I was listening with an iPhone. I bought an ordinary chi-fi cable (Meenova) from AliExpress with a lightning adapter on one end. It sounded okay-ish. Then I bought the Apple Camera Kit adapter and connected the Focal USB-C to the Apple dongle. Well, what can I say: It sounded better. Then I ditched my iPhone and bought an android phone. And again: It sounded better to directly connect the Bathys with the USB-C to the mobile phone. Then again, when connecting the Focal USB-C with my MacBook Pro it sounded - surprise surprise - even better than with my Samsung mobile. As you see, I heard differences between different devices with different cables AND between different devices with the same cable. So that’s why I thought that an upgrade cable might result in an even better sound. This was the time where I remembered some head-fiers talking about a Wireworld cable. And the rest is … well, not „history“ but this review:

The Starlight 8 USB-C cable just sounds damn „right“. It takes the Bathys to a new level. Not to a „whole“ new level, but a new level nonetheless. And it doesn’t come with its downsides. But the great things first:

The bass frequencies are right there where I want them. And NO, I wouldn’t have achieved that by just raising the bass in the Focal app. I tried, believe me, I tried many many many different EQ profiles over the last few months. You will never get THAT bass. Because I felt that the cable somehow managed to raise the sub-bass beneath 62Hz. And in addition it feels like the mid bass got more punch. It is more THERE. Felt. Not only heard. Again: This wouldn’t have been able by adding more mid-bass to the EQ, which would have resulted in bloated lower mids (also looking at you, dear Stellia).

Continuing to the mids, I have only one mighty word: transparent. And I don’t want nothing else from the mids. They should be present and clean and transparent. Not bloated (lower mids), not piercing (upper mids). But clean. And I get that with the Wireworld cable.

And the highs? They are nicely extended, don’t pierce, don’t sound artificial. I repeat myself, I didn’t get the same results by rising the highs even more in the EQ. It just got artificially sounding. Too much bass isn’t good, in the same way too much highs are not good either (for your ears, for long term listening, for enjoying the music as the „artist intended“ it when recording their songs). All the details are there, but not thrown in your face. A mature tuning.

But the frequencies don’t cover up the whole cake, do they? What about sound as a whole?

What I experienced right away when listening to the Wireworld cable with my test-tracks was the stereo panorama. Man, this cables transforms the Bathys into a 3D sounding headphone. It literally feels like being in the midst of a band. With the singer prominently right in the middle and the left and right sounds going easily beyond the cups. But also the depth increases by quite a margin! I don’t only hear the music in front of me, it rather envelopes me. Separation is great. Macro dynamics as with all Focal headphones superb, but also micro details - with songs that I know by heart - are all there and then some.

Guys, I know, some of you will laugh at me, but yes, this combination beats the Focal Stellia! It does. And not only the Stellia alone (with its stock cables) but also with the combination of the palladium/silver cables I had back then. I don’t have that „rig“ in possession any more, also not the LGPT Ti. But the Bathys with the Wireworld sounds better. I can say that because so many of my favourite albums sound the way they have to. No niggling needed anymore (at least what concerns the sound). And I niggled a lot when listening through my old „rig“ worth about 10k $! And that’s crazy, when considering how „affordable“ the Bathys are in comparison to the Stellia, right? The Stellia always had too much mid-bass that would bleed into the lower mids. It was difficult to tame the upper-mid bump that caused ear-fatigue. And the highs had a metallic sheen that wouldn´t go away. It was a shame for that price (at least when compared to the price of the Bathys). All that is gone with the possibility to EQ the Bathys. And of course the DSP in the right earcup also does the trick. In combination with the Wireworld cable the Bathys soundwise outshines so many headphones it puts a smile on my face. It´s really hard to believe but I trust my ears for over two decades now. This is a killer set!

But I don’t want that review to sound like a miracle (although the cable has its „magic“), and as I am an audio enthusiast as you guys are, of course I will also tell you the downsides of that cable … so you can decide for yourself if it´s worth a shot.

Five things.

1. It costs about 200 $/€ (for the 1 meter version). For most of us this is a lot. I know. But when you think about the terrific deals right now you get for a new pair of Bathys, then you might take the plunge for that cable in order to hear it how it sounds at its best.
2. You might or might not like its looks. I like that „technically-engineer“ vibe very much. As said, in the analogue world there are so many cable manufacturers who offer bling bling cables for many thousands of dollars. And I can see how one might like that (because I liked that, too, haha), but this red cable, IMO, gives that „grey“ looking headphones a nice spicy touch.
3. It has some cable noise, not much more than the original Focal cable. When listening to music I don’t hear anything from the cable when going around so it doesn´t bother me at all. But most of us won´t run around with that cable anyways.
4. That point might be a real bummer for most of us, it is stiff. Yes. Stiff it is. Why? Because it wasn’t made for the Bathys. We wouldn’t even need the USB 3.1. I guess USB 2.0 would be suffice for high res music. But this is the only Wireworld cable with USB-C on both ends of the cable. Anyhow, this cable isn’t made for jogging. Of course you might use it at your desk, on your couch, or when on commute with the train/plane etc., and you might even use it when moving around the house or for „small“ homework where you don’t have to move a lot. That being said, I also use them when walking around the city, like going from A to B. Does it look weird? I don’t think so. I know, some of you don’t even leave the house with the Bathys. Me personally, I don’t care.
5. The cable is only available in two lengths: 0.6 meters and 1 meter. I have got the 1 meter version and of course I thought that 1 meter is too short (against the standard length of 1.2 meters). But, to my surprise, it wasn’t. In fact I think 1.2 meters would be too long for this cable. Why? Because - and this correlates to point 4 - this cable doesn’t bend like a „normal“ cable. It has, as you can see from the pics down below, a somewhat flat design. That’s also because the power cord has its own space and therefore doesn’t interfere with the other cords that deliver the signals (which, I reckon, is one of the main plus points that results in that great sound). What I want to say is, that this cable, when „worn“ with the Bathys and my mobile phone in my left back pocket, kind of folds around my body like a spiral. As said above, it isn’t the most flexible cable out there (to put it mildly), as it wasn’t designed for walking around. But it works for me (I am no jogger). So point 5 (the length of the cable) isn’t really a „bad“ thing. I fact I wouldn’t even urge Wireworld to produce 1.2 meter cables (at least not with that cable layout). But if they would achieve to create a USB-C cable that would be more pliable than the Starlight 8, and also won’t compromise on the sound quality, that of course would be great.

I know there are many of you who think a digital signal is a digital signal and why would it sound different on different cables? It´s just 1´s and 0´s that pass that cable, right? Nope, that’s not the case. As I read from another audiophile: USB cables don’t pass 1’s and 0’s, they pass voltage signals which are interpreted as 1’s and 0’s. Voltage below a certain level is interpreted as a 0 and voltage above a certain level is interpreted as a 1. Anything that interferes with the voltage signal can cause the data to be misinterpreted by the DAC …

But I am no engineer or technician. Last time I checked I was just a guy with two ears

So, that’s it. I will continue rediscovering all my beloved albums with the Starlight 8 … and I hope you will, too, with or without that cable (… but at least, please, try my EQ I mentioned above with the USB-C connected to the Bathys, preferably connected to your laptop/computer!! Some of you maybe will „miss“ the bloated bass, haha, but as soon as your ears/brains settle in, I am sure you will appreciate that balanced tuning for long listening sessions.)

And now, finally, let’s move on to some pics:

[GrussGott]

Great write up - i’m using the AQ carbon and notice a difference as well vs an anker high power cable. It’s a shame cable conversations can get polluted by those who don’t prefer them.

[Resolve]

@newernow

The Starlight 8 USB-C cable just sounds damn „right“. It takes the Bathys to a new level. Not to a „whole“ new level, but a new level nonetheless. And it doesn’t come with its downsides. But the great things first:

The bass frequencies are right there where I want them. And NO, I wouldn’t have achieved that by just raising the bass in the Focal app. I tried, believe me, I tried many many many different EQ profiles over the last few months. You will never get THAT bass. Because I felt that the cable somehow managed to raise the sub-bass beneath 62Hz. And in addition it feels like the mid bass got more punch. It is more THERE. Felt. Not only heard. Again: This wouldn’t have been able by adding more mid-bass to the EQ, which would have resulted in bloated lower mids (also looking at you, dear Stellia).

In order to even be sure of this kind of claim for yourself, you’d need to have some sort of test condition set up to where you know this difference is actually an acoustic one. I wouldn’t deny your experience here, merely that these sorts of claims come with a certain amount of baggage attached, and while blind or controlled tests aren’t exhaustive indicators of the experience, this is precisely the kind of thing they can and should be used for.

Bottom line, the brain is a tricky thing and we need to be careful with these sorts of claims - even for our own sake. What would be really cool is that if you’re able to actually test this in a blind or controlled fashion… post the results!

[GrussGott]

@Resolve

while blind or controlled tests aren’t exhaustive indicators of the experience, this is precisely the kind of thing they can and should be used for.

For me i’ve found the much better method is to take notes on what I hear, not blind, but doing it over the course of days.

So maybe day 1 I’ll listen to a set of tracks with the variable in question and write down what I hear, then the next day I’ll listen to the same set of tracks without the variable and write down my experience.

The act of putting thoughts into words on a page has been the great decider for me; some things I previously thought were meaningful turned out not to show up in my notes and other places where I didn’t think there was value turned out to be valuable.

It might seem weird at first to take notes but man did it change & clarify what I value in audio systems.

[PaisleyUnderground]

@Resolve

In order to even be sure of this kind of claim for yourself, you’d need to have some sort of test condition set up to where you know this difference is actually an acoustic one.

I don’t understand why you’ve challenged his impressions. Why not challenge everyone who posts their impressions, which are after all, subjective.

[Resolve]

I think you maybe misunderstand. I’m not challenging their impressions nor denying their experience, rather pointing out that such claims carry with them a kind of stigma that… may be avoided if a certain method are used. In my view it’s a good idea to scrutinize our own experiences when it comes to this stuff as well, and in the interest of finding the truth on these topics it can be helpful.

Also, I do think we should be more open to asking those questions of one another, and I think it can be done in a positive and respectful manner. What I won’t do for example is say “you’re not actually hearing this, it’s all placebo and confirmation bias” and so on, because that also isn’t helpful. I’m generally not a fan of statements like “you’re hearing x” or “you’re not hearing y”… because nobody has that kind of private information of other peoples’ experiences. But we can still apply scrutiny to our own listening tests for better and more tangible outcomes.

[PaisleyUnderground]

I’m not questioning your intent (as you say, I don’t know what your private thoughts are), but you’ve said twice now that his impressions have a kind of stigma, and therefore he should justify them.

@newernow has obviously put a lot of effort into his writeup, and I found it really interesting.

Haters will always hate. And whatever your intention, your comments have provided ammunition to the haters, who will now say “your impressions have no validity because you didn’t do a blind test, just like Resolve said”.

We could go around in circles, so let’s just put this down as a difference of opinion.

[Resolve]

@PaisleyUnderground

Haters will always hate. And whatever your intention, your comments have provided ammunition to the haters, who will now say “your impressions have no validity because you didn’t do a blind test, just like Resolve said”.

On the flip side, I have been critical of the overvaluing of blind tests. People take it to be the be all end all and it’s simply not that. It’s a tool in the toolbox for evaluations and applying scrutiny, but it is not the definitive or exhaustive tool that some make it out to be. So let me make that clear in case folks misunderstand my point here.

Rather… if in fact people are having these experiences with cables, amps, DACs and so forth, we’re better for it if reports of those experiences can also withstand the application of such scrutiny, and I for one encourage people do that.

Of course I don’t expect everyone to do this, we’re all free to merely report our subjective experiences and leave it at that. But it’s also not unreasonable to raise the question in my view.

[HardyDaytona]

I’ve been using the Bathys for about two weeks now and I’ve been really happy with them so far. I will say that the burn-in on these headphones was a huge part of the experience for me. I absolutely hated them when I first put them on…they were super muffled and way too warm for my taste. Additionally, the clamp force was pretty strong and I found that I could only wear them for an hour or so before I had to take them off.

Fast forward to now; not only has the sound brightened up to a sound profile that I really like, the clamp force has also lightened up and I have no problem wearing them all day at work anymore. The EQ app is really basic, but I am using it on the Dynamic setting to help me get to the sound signature I like.

I’ve read a few people note that the sound quality of these headphones have made them use their wired headphones a lot less in situations where they’re on the move, and I can say I definitely appreciate that perspective; I can enjoy music and take my work calls both on one set with the Bathys; its way easier to have these on my head all day at work, rather than having to switch between a wired and wireless set constantly.

Although even at the original $799 price they are a good deal, now with the drop to $699 and grabbing some 15%-off headphones.com gift cards, I have to say I am really thrilled with my purchase!

I also tried the Audueze Maxwell for a couple months. I think those are probably the best wireless value, but their weight, huge footprint on the head (which made me self conscious at work) and headband construction quality (it’s just glue in certain areas!) made me question my purchase, so I decided to switch over to the Bathys. Overall, I’m happy that I made the change.

[Resolve]

Focal Bathys 5128 measurements (we’re working on updating our data representation process to better reflect compensated and positional information, but here is the basic raw graph for now):

Here’s a new EQ profile I’m working on, incorporating some of the data from the 5128 measurements:

I’ll try and update this post if this evolves over time. I’m now getting into the subjective part of it, which may take a bit longer with this headphone given it has extremely high HpTF variation due to the ultra compliant pads.

[Nate]

Was your EQ profile established while your Bathys was set to its default EQ and in bluetooth or DAC mode?

[Resolve]

Yes. But again I’m still working on it.

[yupanquid]

Do you reckon you’ll be able to EQ it with their app? or is it just unusable?

[Resolve]

The app is fairly primitive. There are some presets to choose from and you can also customize the sound with a few filters, but I think that’s some feedback for Focal for future iterations. I’d love to see parametric EQ, but sadly it doesn’t have that flexibility. Personalization is fairly important for headphones like these, so it’s nice they have some, but IMO it’s also not flexible enough.

[minohaka]

AREGINA did some measurements and came up with an EQ (Korean), feel free to try it and improve it as needed

[Nate]

Are you considering to measure Bathys with the Dynamic eq setting activated? Description is its more Harman-like than the normal/standard eq setting

[minohaka]

I’m not the one who did the measurements, I think they did, please ask on the video

[ranel]

Hi guys! Since we’re talking EQ presets for Bathys, I wanted to share my experience (and a surprise!) from a preset shootout I did yesterday. I use the Bathys a lot these days, so I thought it makes sense to invest a bit of time into optimizing my EQ. The results mostly reflect my personal preference, but mayhaps someone finds them interesting nevertheless.

Presets

oratory’s Harman 2018

(NB: The different colored curves are not channels, but somewhat-independent measurements: one by oratory and two by Resolve. I put together measurements from different sources to get a sense of the uncertainties involved.)

My Harman combined

Filters

{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 550., 'dbGain': -1.5, 'q': .8},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 880., 'dbGain': 8.5, 'q': 1.6},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 1170., 'dbGain': -4., 'q': 1.3},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 3500., 'dbGain': 3, 'q': .5},

My DF with 10 dB slope

(NB: This and the following one are on the 5128 rig.)

Filters

{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 45., 'dbGain': -4., 'q': .6},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 175., 'dbGain': 1.6, 'q': 1.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 300., 'dbGain': -.5, 'q': 3},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 840., 'dbGain': 1.5, 'q': 2.5},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 1070., 'dbGain': -1., 'q': 5.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 2550., 'dbGain': 3.8, 'q': 3.5},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 4400., 'dbGain': 2., 'q': 2.},
{'type': 'hshelf', 'f0': 500., 'dbGain': 2, 'q': 1.5},
{'type': 'hshelf', 'f0': 6000., 'dbGain': -2, 'q': 2.},

Resolve’s preset above

Filters

{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 100., 'dbGain': -2.5, 'q': 1.3},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 323., 'dbGain': -3., 'q': 1.6},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 870., 'dbGain': 3.5, 'q': 3.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 3100., 'dbGain': -1.5, 'q': 3.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 4600., 'dbGain': 2., 'q': 3.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 6500., 'dbGain': -3., 'q': 4.},
{'type': 'peak', 'f0': 10500., 'dbGain': -3., 'q': 4.},

Stock tuning

Flat EQ in the app.

Loudness matching

The biggest problem with comparing presets is that some are just louder than others, and louder sounds better (especially to untrained listeners like me). So to have a fair comparison, one must match the loudness after applying the EQ. The best standardized way to do it ATM is EBU R128, so that’s what I use. ffmpeg-normalize is a convenient wrapper around ffmpeg’s implementation of EBU R128, and it can do EQ as well thanks to it’s --pre-filter argument.

Test tracks

• Tracy Chapman’s “Fast Car”
  Great song, and known to be very revealing of SQ differences in speakers.
• Mark Knopfler’s “Heart of Oak”
  To check for body in the acoustic guitar and for warmth in the vocal.
• Tingvall Trio’s “Beat”
  The piano has an amazing juice and dynamics, I wanted to make sure they are not lost.
• Hania Rani’s “Eden”
  Just to check the bassline.

Comparisons

To do the comparisons, I applied the EQ presets to sample files, normalized them, and loaded them into Lacinato ABX/Shootout-er to make a blind shootout. It was tough to draw cohesive conclusions while comparing five presets at a time, so I focused on pairwise comparisons.

• Harman 2018 vs combined
  The two targets differ only in the bass shelf, so any prefernce is likely to be track-dependent. But still, I wanted to check if it pays to go surgical on the 4-6 kHz peaks like oratory did in his preset, so I tried to focus on that region. It was a tough comparison; I tried 90 times (all test tracks combined) and chose oratory’s preset 54 times, so a slight win to his preset here.

• Harman 18 vs stock
  This came as quite a surprise: I seem to have a preference for the stock tuning, especially on the pop material. I chose stock 15 times out of 18 on Fast Car and 10/10 on Knopfler, noting that in Fast Car ‘the guitars feel more supported and the first vocal phrase more natural’ and on Knopfler that stock sounded ‘softer, maybe less exciting, but more natural’. On the two piano tracks it was a closer call; I chose stock 14/20 on Eden and Harman 11/15 on Beat, but I noted about the latter that it was especially tough to hear the difference.

• Stock vs DF with 10 dB slope
  I started with Fast Car and didn’t go any further, because one preset (turned out to be the DF) was just unacceptable. I did 10 rounds just to be sure, choosing stock without hesitation every time.

• Stock vs Resolve’s preset
  Not as big of a difference as with the DF, but still pretty clear. I chose stock 9 times out of 10 on Fast Car and didn’t go further, because the alternative just didn’t sound right to me.

Conclusion

Going in, I expected that Harman will be my top preference, that I’ll prefer its combined variant to the 2018, and that DF will trade blows with stock somewhere towards the bottom of the preference list. Turned out I was wrong on most of that, and at the moment none of the above perests improve on the stock tuning for me. Well done Focal, I guess!

[taronlissimore]

Introducing the new Focal Bathys Dune, a new colour variation of the Focal Bathys.

From Focal
“With this luminous , warm finish in the colours of sand and silver, the headphones are transformed into a genuine fashion accessory. Featuring the same design and made from the same materials, the Bathys headphones have been revamped with this light and elegant version, down to the smallest detail like gold-coloured aluminium rings. There are also hints of silver, particularly with the magnesium yokes.:”

With the Bathys Dune, some exciting firmware updates are on the way. Not released yet but keep your eyes pealed!

[Resolve]

Something doesn’t look quite right with that FR result, maybe I missed how you’re achieving this, but that is not the measured result post EQ of my unit. I’ll try putting a few together here in a little bit and doing a comprehensive piece on it.

There’s also something to note with the Bathys, it changes dramatically for ear gain depending on head size. That’s because the pads are very compliant. Just a subtle change in clamp pressure yields a very different result. So this is something you most likely will need to dial in by ear regardless.