Focal Clear Open-back Headphones - Official Thread

So just to clarify, it’s not the bass that’s going up to 110dB when it clips. The bass only needs to reach around 95 - 100dB. Without a bass boost, it will be much louder overall when it clips than if that same bass level is reached with a bass boost. Does that make sense?

EDIT: Ah I see what you meant. I don’t think we should presume the listener is damaging their hearing. There are other factors to consider. If it’s only with xBass, while still loud, that would require a longer time frame to be damaging. Additionally, there are other things to consider - like if any of the devices in the chain were defective. Without having the exact units on hand, it’s hard to know.

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Sadly, I’m largely speaking from experience. Yes, headphone drivers have limitations and often cannot generate “loud” sounds at certain frequencies. But hearing damage is graduated and you likely won’t notice mild loss. People’s hearing today is routinely damaged from loud vehicles, loud music, and other environmental hazards (source 1, source 2, source 3). One should therefore work from the fact that many people have and are damaging their hearing through headphones/IEMs.

I used to own the Elex, and if I ever listened to it anywhere near clipping…pain…deafness… I never let my Clear go that high. The Clear’s apparent performance may be totally different for someone who routinely listened to music in the 90+ dB range 10 or 20 years ago. It may or may not cause additional harm.

Rock musicians are vulnerable to major hearing loss. For example, Pete Townsend of The Who blamed Keith Moon blowing up a drum onstage as contributing to his own hearing issues (e.g., hearing aids). So, damage can come from long-term exposure (the table I posted above) or a single explosion lasting a second.

Hearing damage doesn’t have a single cause for any person, but running Focal products near or at clipping…oh boy…

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Other than age, i believe most of my hearing loss is due to motorcycling without earplugs. Ironically, i always wore earplugs on the track, but i was rarely exposed for more than 20 minutes. Touring, where one is exposed to lower spls but for hours and hours at a time, was, i believe, more damaging. The constant wind noise is a killer. It also happens to be pretty close to vocal frequencies, and exhibits itself mostly in an inability to hear details when an undercurrent of noise is present in the same general frequency range. In a loud restaurant, i have a hard time pulling details of the voice of a dinner companion with whom i am sharing a table out of that background murmur. Can’t hear anything over about 13k either, but at my age that is to be expected. I dont have the facility to measure spl with head/earphones, but my speakers rarely peak over 90db, and avg. more like 75-80.

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Yeah hearing damage risk is determined by how loud and for how long. Loud enough and even a short amount of exposure is bad - like explosions. Long enough and even listening to loud music can be damaging. But it is also influenced by the frequency. Our ears are less prone to damage from lower frequencies.

All I’m suggesting is that we may not have enough information to know for sure that Focal Clear only clip when pushed to hearing damaging levels if bass boost is also being applied.

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Yeah the key thing here is the bass boost of 10dB. That’s basically a recipe for hitting the excursion limit at low frequencies. You could theoretically do the same thing with a single filter at 10hz to the same +10 degree. You wouldn’t hear any change in the tuning, but it would still clip. Just at a much lower volume overall.

Now, I’d suggest that an average of what… 96dB is still too loud, but over short periods of time that’s less damaging.

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Hey Andrew,

I fully agree with you that some of what I wrote belongs in a private discussion… - thankfully it was initiated, soon after, and there is no more a need for the like of it, from me, here.

Thank you for your effort to make sure that those more technical aspects and their harmful implications for one’s hearing, were well aware of and understood (and, in my case, they are).

Theory aside (and that does not imply that I question the truth of any of it - no disagreement there), on a more ‘empirical’, factual and pragmatic level - my case is rather simple - I described everything in the most objective and accurate way I could, from specific sample tracks through file formats to the gear and its settings… - the way I attempted to listen to music through the Clear, that I received, is no different than my regular listening through other headphones in any way, neither in overall loudness level nor in a partial selective loudness level in the lower frequencies range (and, me being still me, with the same personal collection of music, preferences and ‘genres’) - the Clear clips extensively, and no other headphones I have ever used did… And, in the discussion here, in general, there seems to be an accepted to be true underlying assumption, that there is 100% correlation between the occurrence of clipping and excessive and harmful listening settings, under all circumstances, based on which the focus of the discussion shifts to a more abstract and generalized level, from the point of view of which my, and maybe others’s, listening settings is determined to be ‘wrong’ (= harmful as well as justifiably illegitimate when discussing the clipping)… It is crucial to again turn to actual experience no less than theory, while also examining whether the experience is compatible with what is entailed by the theory or not… - I do not listen with a sound loudness meter, I just listen to music… And my listening with the Clear is not any different than my listening with all other headphones that preceded it for decades (I am 50 years old and in the hobby from my early teens) - this damage to hearing, which repeatedly becomes the focus of the discussion whenever the clipping is brought up, is not only a potential future outcome, from the present point of reference of this discussion now (with the clipping implied to be not much else than a legitimate, maybe even a positive indicator for that pending harm) - it would have been my present condition already - my hearing would have been impaired long ago already, following that rationale, with its underlying assumption, me reporting clipping and equating the clipping with harmful (and therefore ‘illegitimate’) listening settings… We do not need the future when we have the past and the present… This whole ‘journey’ with the Clear, with the way the clipping is presented and justified, led me to have also my hearing tested, and it was found to be normal - not damaged in any way.
What is it that is logically entailed by that? - that I should avoid my regular listening settings because my hearing would be damaged (based on the generalized theoretical assumption that that would be the inevitable result of what my Clear’s clipping necessarily implies)? - obviously not.

I hope that this sharing makes the whole discussion complemented also by an experience-based ‘empirical data’ (even if the sample size is 1).

I do not fully understand what is the explanation for why the experience of those who replied to my post is different than mine (and quite a few others, it seems when browsing the web, though it might factually still be the minority) - I do not know - but, what I can know, for certain, is that the attempt to justify the Clear’s performance in my case, based on the generalization above, in the case of this specific Clear, this setup, and these specific ears and hearing of mine, is not applicable.

Thank you!

I think the point of difference is the use of the iFi HipDAC and the xBass function, is it not?

When listening to the Clear normally without xBass, does it clip at your normal listening levels? Because if that’s the case, either there’s something wrong with the unit, or your listening levels are dangerously high. I’m not saying it’s the latter, but one of these two things has to be true, given the data.

What I’m pointing out here is that there’s a very reasonable explanation for why you had the experience you did, and why that doesn’t match that of other users. That being of course the use of the HipDAC’s xBass function.

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It might be, but I cannot tell for sure yet - I do not have it with me at the moment - it was sent for testing and I am yet to receive it back. I had very limited listening time with it beforehand - I cannot be certain that my memory does not fail me, but if it does not - I did attempt listening to it also through my good old NuForce Icon HD, which has no EQ options at all, and I think also through the iFi Hip Dac without XBass, and it was clipping on some specific tracks, based on (my listening) volume alone… I recall that I was trying to understand why those tracks and not other tracks that were even more bass-heavy and/or loud in the recording to begin with, and the only thing that those tracks seemed to have in common (vs. others that did not clip), that I could become aware of, was a more pronounced dynamic range (in the sense of how significant was the experience of the change, within each track, from the most quiet to the loudest) but I would be able to tell better when I get them back.

Personally, though, if my unit had already been tested and it was determined that there was nothing wrong with it, I do not know how to reconcile the suggestion that my listening levels are dangerously high with the fact that I have no hearing loss whatsoever.

I will share more if I have anything meaningful to add once I get them back.

Thanks!

Okay so here’s the Focal Clear’s clipping threshold:

You can see it’s pretty much the same as with the Elear. You can see it’s just over 10dB of volume difference.

Here’s the harmonic distortion so you can see it’s actually clipping on both. It’ll look different for the rest of it as well of course because of the bass boost:

No xBass:

With xBass:

Legend:

Here’s what it looks like when it’s not clipping even with the HipDAC’s xBass function (about 2-3dB lower, but the higher harmonic products are much lower):

And lastly, here’s what the Focal Clear harmonic distortion looks like at more typical listening levels:

There is one other thing to note here, and it’s that test tone level and music level aren’t necessarily going to be the same thing. Music is generally much quieter than test tone level.

For example, with this SPL calibrated system, I can play certain music that reaches a maximum of 90dB in an FFT (uncomfortably loud), and have that same level in a test tone be 105dB (near the clipping threshold). I can also play music that reaches 99dB in an FFT at that same calibrated level. So the music selection definitely matters. But I can’t imagine anyone would actually want to listen to it that loud in the first place.

Bottom line:
Just like with the Elear, under normal conditions the Focal Clear clipping threshold is at approximately 107dB at 1khz. Of course this is much lower when any bass boost EQ or other adjustment like xBass is applied, because the driver excursion limit will be reached in the lower frequencies first. Under these conditions, with a ~10dB low frequency boost, the Focal Clear clipping threshold is at approximately 95dB at 1khz.

TL;DR - Don’t use a 10dB bass boost on Focal Headphones if you plan to listen loud.

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I admire your patience.

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Lastly, here’s the Focal Utopia clipping threshold:

It’s right around 110dB at 1khz for anyone who can’t read that. It is interesting to see there’s more headroom with the Utopia than the other models, which were around 106 to 107dB at 1khz. I think at this point you know the story for how a 10dB bass boost will change that threshold.

Again, I have to stress… 110dB at 1khz, is so loud that if this is your average listening level, you will destroy your hearing quite quickly. So you should never be clipping these headphones, for the sake of your hearing. If you do hear clipping without extreme volume-induced pain, something is either very wrong (perhaps with the headphones or something in the chain), or there could be some unintended bass boost going on - whether through a high output impedance source, some software EQ adjustment, or a function like xBass. Other than that, the only other possibility is that hearing damage of some kind has already taken place.

For those wondering about how level is calibrated on this system, it’s done so with an ND9B 1khz standard compliant external calibration tool.

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I’ve owned the Clear now for about a month and a half. I pair it with the Topping DX3 Pro+, and have used it in high gain mode (which is +19db) fairly loudly, and never experience any clipping. Granted I don’t often listen bass heavy music, but I do listen to some Metallica and Beastie Boys which have some bass. I think the Clear is great I likely will use it as my only pair for a long time!

I actually am thinking about getting the Schiit Vali 2+ amp to use with my Project Turntable. Do you all think that pairing will work will with the Clear?

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Can’t answer directly, but my v1.1 Vali 2 w/the Elex is one of my favorite pairings. Loses a bit of detail compared to Jot 2, but makes it up in timbre, especially with Rock/Prog guitar, i.e. Steven Wilson, Jeff Beck, etc. Not particularly refined, but raucus and honest.

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Focal Clear on Cavalli Liquid Carbon v1. Still my favourite solid-state amp for the Clears. When not on tubes, this is my go to.

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If there is a planar equivalent/brother/upgrade would be fabulous to the Clear OG? Which one would that be?

I’m contemplating either trading in my OGs for a pair of Utopias - would that justify 3k?

Or complement my setup with “matching” planars…

Electronic music… therefore I’m not even sure if there are “better” planars than 1266TCs! (comfort and price aside which are actually exclusion criteria)

Thanks for Tipps!

You can get used Utopia’s for well under $2.5K, it’s a big step up, BUT and it big BUT they are very picky about what you use to drive them they can come across bright, harsh and metalic on the wrong source gear.

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So you don’t see the the Clears hitting 90-95% of the Utopia’s performace. That’s the benchmark I’ve seen thrown out quite a bit. Anything drives the Clears.

A while back I posted a comparison of the Utopia, OG Clear, and Elex in the Utopia thread. I’d say the Utopia has different and unique qualities – it presents absurd nuances, audio shapes, and fine distinctions between volume. After the Utopia, the Clear sounded like a lot of hiss, hiss, and more hiss. My ears readjusted over the next few days, and I started not hearing as much hiss on the Clear.

The difficult part of the Utopia is its treble, and I couldn’t get past it. It was way too piercing with even mild music.

All things considered, I’d say the Clear reaches 70% of the Utopia in some ways, and 95% in other ways. It’s perhaps 80% as technical as the Utopia overall, but often more enjoyable with average sources.

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Fwiw it’s a pretty big step up in my experience. But as polygonhell had said they are picky. Imo the treble on the utopia is its standout feature, tonally. But it’s difficult to get right if you don’t prioritize synergy in the system.

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Others have coverred it.
To me the utopia is an obviously superior headphone to the clear, I’m not sure what 90% means in this context.
But you have to have the right chain for it.

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