General purchase advice: Ask your questions/for advice here!

It wasn’t hiss. I didn’t think the bass was taut (meaning that the AT-M50x appeared to be clearer and more rhythmic with bass lines), and the treble also seemed hazy. Now that everyone on this forum has educated me over the last few weeks, I suppose I could have been conditioned over several years to like the V-shaped signature of the Audio Technicas.

But with the Stellias, for some reason my brain didn’t have to go through any de-programming. They have clean, fast bass, clean non-fatiguing treble, clean mids (ahhh, I see where you’re going with “clean, just clean” because that’s the best description I can find!). My reaction when I started to listen to them out of the box was “wow”.

It will be interesting what will happen when my Verites arrive. I’m hoping that I don’t hate them because they sound different from the Stellia.

I think part of it, if you’ve immersed yourself into this stuff enough, is that you may have known what to expect. I was entirely “prepared” for when my Utopia arrived so I wasn’t surprised at all about its reported pluses or minuses. Least surprising headphone I have purchased so far.

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There isn’t one. It’s unfortunate. It all depends upon upon what you want. There is an entry level price point where you could probably get something really good for around $1000 all in.

Harsh sound can be had at all price points if you got a crap recording.

What exactly are you looking for? What did you have in the 80s that made you happy?

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Hi @Cyan69, @generic offered a path forward when you first asked this question earlier, suggesting a Focal Clear, leaving $500 of your $2000 budget for headphone and DAC. I’ve just gone through this process myself, and similar to you, I’d spent most of my money on AV equipment over the last decade before returning to audio this year.

I would recommend upgrading the Denon first because as @generic pointed out, that was designed to be a really good surround sound amp, not a headphone amp. Then spend some time with your new amp/DAC to get a feel for the sound with your current headphones, which are all good. That way you’re not replacing everything at once, which will make it difficult to know what to do if you don’t like the sound. Spend at least a week, to let the system and your brain settle in, and if you don’t like it, come back to the forum and explain what you dislike, because that will help all the experts give you an alternative path.

I’d suggest trying out a Schiit stack first, if only because they have a 15 day return policy, so it would be a good way of getting a baseline for what you like or dislike. Also, a lot of people on this forum have either owned or still own Schiit equipment and can explain to you how other amps might sound in relation. I think @lost33 may have one of every Schiit amp!

If you want to keep to the $500 AMP/DAC budget, and you want some tube experience, then the Schiit Vali 2 amp and Modi Multibit DAC comes under that amount. If you want to spend about double that budget, you can get the Lyr 3 amp and Bifrost 2 DAC, which is what I ended up with. From what I have read, it isn’t worth getting the internal DAC option with the Lyr3.

Both the Vali 2 and Lyr 3 are hybrid tube amps, so you won’t get as much “tubiness” as you would with a pure tube amp, but for a newcomer like me, I liked the fact that it only needs one tube, and I can have a little fun trying out new tubes to see if I can tell the difference. It’s been a fun enough experience that I think my next purchase will be a “real” tube amp, but I will probably need to increase my budget for my next amp because I like the Lyr 3 a lot, and I want to make sure I get a true upgrade.

Once you’re settled on the amp, then try some headphones. @generic suggested the Focal Clear. Given the types of music that you like (metal, rock, pop), others on the forum may suggest the ZMF Aeolus, which is a similar price, and is supposed to excel with rock music. Both Focal and ZMF have a lot of support in this forum, and many people own headphones from both manufacturers, so you’ll find a lot of useful information within the forum using the search function.

I hope that helps. I’m not an expert, but I’m trying to explain the path I took, with the help of everyone on this forum. The main thing is that no-one can tell you exactly what to buy, because they don’t know what you like or dislike, so part of the fun of this hobby is trying something out and keeping it if you like it or moving on if you don’t. And even if you like it, you’ll have this urge to find out if there’s something out there that’s even better…

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Nice man, I’m most likely going with a Schitt amp 95%, but none of those. I will check the eitr. Appreciate that.

But the dac has got me on a journey. Leaning towards a ESS Sabre or Burr Brown/Texas Instruments now I think it mentioned, dac. As they seem to be highly regarded.

Edit: So I am confused now, eitr is a usb to optical. Doesn’t that affect the bit rate and frequency. From what I have been seeing is that usb provides the better performance, isn’t this merely downgrading the sound?

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I’ve been on this exact search myself, and I found the ideal amp for me in the Feliks Audio Euforia. I can’t speak for what would be best for you, this is just where I found my optimum. :slight_smile:

I’ve written a more in-depth review on it if you’re interested in reading more about how I got to that point and how I feel about it. My feelings about it haven’t changed in the time being.

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Now on to the second part of they mystery phase, again I really don’t know much about hifi audio. As the learning process goes on, I ask my self is there DACs that are specifically leaning more towards planars?

I am looking into the ESS Sabre 9xxx or Burr Browns.

My goal again is to set me up for some mediocre future proofing. In case I wish to purchase some higher end headphones later.

I would rather spend more now than spend/sell and replace later.

Everybody has this Dac and that dac and this clock and that clock.

I am in the range of, again overkill for the pair of headsets I am going to use, $5-700 for my dac and amp.

Schitt audio will let you come in with your own pair of headphones and test all there equipment which is phenomenal and logical.

I know I strayed far off the question I am seeking, but I’m just providing mindset so you won’t think I’m a lunatic

Just the way I see it is I can’t test or sample this to my ears, everyone’s ears are different. But it seems like most DACs lean one side or another of the sound and frequency spectrum.

I’ve searched for stores that sell hifi products in my area of Greater Los Angeles to test and all I see are speaker stores

Dont get caught up in the specific DAC chip stuff, ESS, BB or AK or what have you. Listen to or read about what the DAC sounds like. Whether certain chips have sonic characteristics is somewhat controversial and the implementation is more important than the actual DAC chip in most cases.

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Second, I have some idea that the electrical input has a factor on sound the unit produces. So like for Schitt products we got 115 v or 230 v option for the same product, is that why these options are present?

The people’s favorite DAC appears to be the Schiit Bifrost 2 nowadays. I have one myself and I’m totally on board with the hype around it. It’s a tonally rich, smooth and pleasant sounding DAC. Check out the official thread on it if you want to learn more about it.

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There’s Upscale Audio in La Verne. They’re currently open on Saturdays I believe. There’s also The Source Audio Video in Torrance (they have a headphone listening station with a lot of great gear).

You can also head up to the Schiitr in Newhall. They have pretty much everything there available to demo, just bring your own headphones.

The Source would be the first place I recommend because they have a good variety of gear that you can try. I haven’t been there, but I know people who have and I’ve seen pictures. It’s pretty impressive. Chord, dCS, McIntosh and others.

Get some ears on gear to get an idea of the sound you like and go from there.

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230V for Europe. 115V for Nam. Just how power is supplied from the wall in various places. Since you live around LA you would go for the 115V.

Yes, I understand, but as someone who has never owned any hifi equipment I do not understand any of the terminology in comparison to what it would sound like.

Like I said with no where to test this as well it creates a situation where I do not know what I like and also as mentioned above what you may like and hear is different than what I may like and actually hear/understand.

I strictly mention those two because those are the dac or dac/amp combo I have been eyeing.

Here’s a photo I pulled from a web search of The Source A/V.

https://www.thesourceav.com/

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Yes thank you, I’ve actually found all the locations mentioned. Upscale audio is upscale they have very high end equipment and I do know they have the testing and sampling but seems above my bracket based on their product line. Which I viewed online.

The other stores seem to be more speaker oriented. I am looking for a hifi headphone store. I found some in Pasadena and downtown Los Angeles.

Just checking the source AV and it’s the same, it doesn’t have anything I plan on purchasing. I would need to do more research and find specific dac chips in those products to have a fairly equivalent understanding.

At least I got Schitt to fall back on.

The Source has a bunch of headphone setups, and even if some are currently out of range it’s still a good idea to hear different equipment. It’ll help give you an idea of where you want to head in the future.

Also, the Schiitr is a good place to visit as well. They’re also very friendly, and it’s usually Will that’s minding the store. Very cool guy.

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I get your thought, to better understand the sound quality/characteristics. It is a great start, but the thing probably goes the same with Schitt, you need to bring your own headphones. This corona situation is making a mess.

I want to sometime in the near future endorse a place where people can try this equipment out. If you never try the experience you won’t get into it or understand the difference. Especially the basics which are fundamental to people just starting. Basically bringing light to the darkness.

Ah, I didn’t realize you didn’t have any experience with hifi equipment yet. I guess that makes my recommendation for the Bifrost 2 rather difficult to justify. Even if it were the right choice for you, you’d want to what you’re getting over less expensive DACs and if that’s even worth it for you.

What I will say though, experience is key. If you go in for a DAC/Amp auditioning session without any prior experience with any dedicated DAC/Amp setups, everything you hear will be new and it’ll be extremely difficult to make up your mind on what would be best for you. What you could do is get an inexpensive setup first, and after you’ve used that for a month or 2, that’s when you’ve got a good baseline reference for auditioning the pricier stuff.

The logical recommendation for an entry-level setup would be a basic Schiit stack, a Modi 3 and Magni 3+ or Heresy. Or a JDS Labs Atom stack, same price and offers a roughly equal level of performance. Both stacks are solid benchmarks of what $200 can get you in terms of sound quality, and a great starting point for anyone looking to get into the hobby.

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@HeadphoneNoob

This. ^^^^^

It’s honestly good enough to get you by for a long while with almost any headphone.

Figure out what headphone you like first. The Source has Audeze, Focal, Sennheiser, Dan Clark Audio, Grado, Meze, etc… which literally covers a majority of the popular Audiophile headphone makers, and is certainly enough of a selection to inform you on what your basic preferences are, such as: planar vs dynamic, bassy vs neutral vs treble focused or V shaped, large or narrow soundstage, etc.

I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts that if you went there and tried some products, then came back to us with an idea of which headphones you liked - even if you couldn’t describe why you liked it - that we could relate enough to that experience to help point you to a headphone & amp & dac that fit your preferences and budget.

Right now you have absolutely zero frame of reference. The best way to overcome that is experience.

Trying to help you find the best setup for your preferences is like trying to help a blind person navigate out of a round room with no doors, that we can’t see either, while speaking a language you don’t understand.
Any successful outcome would be due entirely to chance.

Explain your desires to Alan@thesourceav.com. See if he can arrange a “new to the hobby” demonstration for you.** I bet he would.

Good luck.

** I don’t know if they have such a thing, but it gets the point across to them.

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Good advice being offered above. Ears on gear so you and all involved have a frame of reference will allow us to emerge from the darkness. That might mean bringing your Sundaras to the locations mentioned. If that’s not possible, there are return policies.

You may have reached a point of diminishing returns should you continue 2 hour per day research, depending on your objectives.

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