Thank you. I needed someone to put the brakes on me. I should just ask is there a $500 DAC that could improve my current setup. I don’t really know what I’m looking for because with these headphones I’m hearing more detail and separation than anything I’ve ever heard, and I’m wondering how much better it can get. That’s the ‘chasing the dragon’ that you were speaking of, and I need to stop. It’s just hard when I have no reference point and that’s why I ask here.
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If you do upgrade your DAC, I suggest you try a different brand or technology. Many people start with AKM 4490 or 4493 DACS (e.g., Modi), or ESS Sabre DACs. These tend to be clean, lean, and brighter. Other brands use Burr Brown (iFi), which tends to sound warmer or fuller. iFi DACs start around $150.
The next big jump is to the popular BiFrost 2 at $699 – it uses multibit technology and (per my recent purchase) greatly enhances the sense of reverberations, timbre, and atmosphere.
The Focal Clear is very popular. Please see the dedicated threads. It has more high range clarity than the 6XX, and more depth, and more speed, and a general precise crispness.
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Your options for headphones are limited with lower priced tube amps generally, most just don’t play well with Planars or Low Impedance Dynamics.
The HD6XX is a very good match for the Crack, if you didn’t install it get the Speedball Mod it’s a big improvement.
I have an elekit amp here (an 8150) and while not a bad headphone amp, they are frankly better speaker amps than they are headphone amps.
Where you are I’d look to spend on headphones, but if your going to jump up to something like a Clear you’d want to upgrade amps, they can sound a bit off on entry level amps.
As to how much better can it get, the Crack+SB and 6xx are a very satisfying combo. And frankly stopping there wouldn’t be a terrible thing.
But I can say every time I thought there couldn’t be more resolution in a headphone and moved up I had to redefine what i thought the limits were.
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Hi I’m looking for recommendations for either just headphones or dac and headphones
My budget is up to £500 uk
I prefer closed back but am looking at both closed and open, over or on ear no in ear
I mainly listen to hip-hop , r&b , metal/rock and some pop anywhere from the 60s to today’s
Previous headphones I have had are beats studio3 , Sony wh1000mx3 and currently using audeze möbius but looking to get the best sounding purely for music
I like good bass
My main listening source is either my laptop or iPad
Any more info please ask
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IMHO (and opinions are like…, we all have one)
just wondering if my DAC is holding back
No, I wouldn’t say so. In the hierarchy, I’d say DAC < amp < headphone, in determining sonic profile. For the HD-6xx’s you’re doing fine there.
Focal Clear as an upgrade for the cans. Does anyone have these
Yes. They are phenomenal. Less so for rock and metal. But for classical, jazz, R&B, ska they are my go to. The sale price, as you mention, is one of those that is hard to pass up. But there will always be the used market or other options out there. So don’t let that overly influence your decisions, esp. if genuinely our of your budget.
Bottlehead Crack
I’ve never listened to this amp. However, my Clears shine most brightly when attached to a high impedance, OTL tube amp. Hard stop. I’d say tubes are almost required for Clears. But then again, opinions, you know?
I have the HD 6xx’s. I don’t use them anymore. I’d say, in just my opinion, that is the weak link (only relatively speaking, they are fine) in your chain and where I’d focus on. Maybe not Clear ($$$) level, but audition or listen to other headphones to get a feel for how different ones sound and go from there. As dncnexus indicates, focus yourself a bit and you’ll save big $$ in the long-term.
Cheers
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Imho the modi multibit is a significant upgrade from the modi 3+.
And then I would spend time listening to the Hd6xx. It’s a ridiculous value. I’m in the “it’s still underrated” camp, or I guess the “we take the value of it for granted” camp. Mimby → crack → Hd6xx isn’t something you can improve upon without $$$. Even then I would install speedball and other mods on the crack first.
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The Bifrost 2 kicked my HD-600 into another gear. What used to sound like high range hiss now sounds like echoes and reverb. The Sennheiser 600 family scales and scales and scales and scales (but the Clear is still better or potentially better).
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the bifrost is so good.
to take an aside for @dncnexus, what we mean by scaling is that most $200 headphones sound pretty much the same whatever you plug them into. If you get a luxury amp with gold plated resistors and essential oil capacitors, most lesser headphones will sound almost the same plugged into that as they do the Magni 3. the HD6xx is the lowest $ point in the hierarchy of headphones where the headphone transparently shows what the DAC and the amp do to the sound, and it can be a significant difference. Other headphones in this price range can’t show the amp differences as strongly. When you buy a better DAC or a better amp and you have craptastic headphones, you won’t notice a big difference. With the HD6xx, you will get a lot more out of the investment, you will hear the upgrade to the DAC or amp.
The general rule is spend more on the transducer (the headphone). I think that rule gets hazy with the HD6xx, partially because outside of 1 or 2 planars you’re looking at a jump to $$$$ to the Clear/Aeolus to upgrade. The Clear would be transparent as well. Me personally I would upgrade the DAC if I got to the Clear level.
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Hi there…
I was about to order the P20 about an year ago but I gave up. Now, I’m looking for a tube amp again (my first one). I’m between the P20, MT-602, and the TA-10R. I will pair it mainly with my hd6xx and dt990 pro (250 Ohm).
For the P20, I would run it full balanced.
Any suggestion?
Thank you
I still use my P20 with the HD-600 after owning it for 3 years. It has 47 ohm OI, so it’s suitable for high impedance headphones such as your Sennheisers and Beyerdynamics. I have no experience with the other two, and have been moving on to other stuff too.
Have you seen the new balanced MT-604? It’s fully balanced with no single-ended input/outputs, and a bit different with independent left and right channel volume adjustments. It is suitable for low impedance headphones.
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I’ve read some of your comments on the P20 and it seems it is really good for such a low price. Even considering the additional amount regarding a new power supply and tubes, P20 seems to be the way to go.
About the MT-604, it is an interresting option, but it still lacks some reviews. I’ve watched only a single one, but it is not that convincing.
I’ve read some comments/reviews on both TA-10R and TA-20. They are likely good options too, but the TA-20 is about 3 times the price of the P20.
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I will add to the positive vibes of the P20. It is a great amp for the price of it. I have swapped tubes but I am still using the stock PSU and I am more than happy for what it costs.
I will say that it is only really worth it if you are going to use the balanced out though, the difference between SE and BAL is quite noticeable.
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Yes. The P20 itself is quite transparent. It starts with a neutral base SS amp akin to THX/Topping, but the tubes change the tone and soften the edges. I can easily hear the differences between DACs – even the impact of balanced interconnects. I think some criticism of the amp is unknowing criticism of the upstream DAC. (My balanced desktop DACs include the iFi Zen DAC V1 and Schiit Bifrost 2.)
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So, as a mastering engineer, I need absolute faithfulness to the reproduction of source music. Not necessarily a “clinical” sound, but no hypes anywhere. If money was no object (it is for now lol, but I can save, right? 
), what DAC, amp, and pair of cans would y’all recommend?
I’ve already had my eye on the ZMF Auteur (with Universe or stock pads), but I’ve heard good things about the Utopia and the Empyrean. Right now, I’m using the headphone out of my Audient iD44 interface to power my Steven Slate VSX headphones (these are amazing btw, but I want an open-back as well).
Anyway, hope this helps anyone get an idea of what I’m looking for! Thanks a million!
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I am not sure about DAC/Amp as I normally go for tubes and chains that are not the most “accurate” but for headphones from my experience I think the Utopia.
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@dncnexus Good to hear, score one for Utopia! Btw, I ran out of likes again, or I’d like your reply, sorry!
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One suggestion:
I’ll provide a view on DAC and amp after I receive my RADs.
Also the RAAL SR1a and HEDDPHONE given your preferences.
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@bpcarb You’re an engineer as well? I’ve followed Production Expert for awhile now, they’ve got some great reads! I don’t remember this one…but it’s a great quote!
What is your setup as of right now? I’ll definitely give the RAD’s a thorough checking out! Thanks so much! As with @dncnexus I’ll like your reply when I can tomorrow!
Edit: I didn’t notice the other headphone recommendations, sorry about that. I’ll check those out too!
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The Utopia has unreal sensitivity. Great for hearing flaws – it has a dedicated thread.
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@generic man, I guess the Utopia is where it’s at lol! I’ll definitely give that a read! Thanks!
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