Anyone have experience with Violectric amps (whether V281, V550, or V226) and ZMFs? The dac in my chain is a Yggy LIM. I had also been considering the Wells Milo, but that one isn’t balanced, and from what I’ve read it seems like the Yggy in all its variations is best when running balanced. So I think I’ve ruled out the Milo. I think the V226 is single ended when using only the amp as well. Any advice on these ss amps? I’m set with tubes for now, and I want to upgrade my ss amp from a Jot 2. As for budget, ideally I’d keep it under $3k. Thanks!
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PS Audio… I’ve watched their Youtube channel. thank you for the recommendation
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That is a very nice suggestion. 
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My living situation precludes me from having anything other than a headphone system. A little background. I listen exclusively to cds 1000s jn my collection. I currently have a Rotel Cd14 player to an Auris audio tube amp which I am very happy with. I value clarity, imaging and soundstaging. I realize I’m giving up a little soundstaging with headphones. I listen thru Clear Mg and HD 800s. My frustration is I can never get great imaging everything sounds congested. Is it my system, headphones or old ears. I’ m thing of swapping out my player to a Bel Canto transport and adding a dac like the chord qutest. Thats about a $4000 upgrade. Any suggestions for a true improvement would be helpful. I dont mind spending the $ to get the best system I can.
Unfortunately headphones just don’t stage like speakers, there isn’t much you can do. You’re already using the HD800 and tubes, which tends to give the best staging performance overall. Changing dacs and amps might slightly tweak the stage, but IMO wouldn’t dramatically change it. That’s been my experience at least.
How long have you been on headphones? In time hopefully your ears will adjust, and you’ll start enjoying the presentation more. I was a speaker guy myself and when moving to headphones it took me at least a year to get really used to it, to where I wasn’t constantly thinking “man I wish I was on my speakers…”.
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You’ve already got the best conventional headphones from an imaging/staging perspective (HD800S). Fiddling with your transport, amp or DAC isn’t going to help there unless you just want a greater sense of width and separation.
You could improve things some, if you were running a computer as your source (from ripped files), with tools like Waves NX or “OoYH”. But that’s artificial, and can result in other artifacts.
But if you want actual depth-wise spatialization, and something that even begins to image and stage like speakers, in a headphone setup, then you’re pretty much limited to the RAAL SR1a and, to a lesser extent, the LB-Acoustics MySphere 3.x.
And both of those have significant trade-offs, both in terms of what it takes to drive them properly, and other factors in their performance (e.g. less sub-bass presence … though the HD800S and Clear MG are not monsters there, either).
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Solid advise already thus far - I completely agree with @Torq and @eric75
With that said, have you experimented with crossfeed? I’m not really a fan myself, but some people enjoy the result. You could look into DACs that feature it.
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Agree with what’s been said.
Headphones just aren’t speakers, you have to get used to the way they present.
I love the MySphere’s, but they can be very picky about what’s driving them (especially the 3.1’s), to me they present in a way that is similar to near field speakers, but that shouldn’t be read that they image or provide a stage like them (they don’t).
Short version headphones aren’t speakers, they don’t sound like speakers, but that makes them different not bad if you adjust your expectations.
I put down headphones for years, but I’m not in a position where I can run a good 2 channel setup at home, and I’v come to very much appreciate what headphones can do.
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Gotcha. So if I’ m understanding the replies an equipment upgrade may not provide a significant improvement. I can live with the soundstaging headphones provide but what is bothering me is how the instruments sound cluster at times. Is that more a function of the quality of the recording? Classical and acoustic are fine but if I listen to rock it is a “cluster” of sound in the middle. Is that just inherent to headphones and can’t be improved upon? After doing research and reading alot of these forums I assumed upgrading to a quality free standing dac might provide for better instrument resolution?
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In my experience a good deal of stage perception is carried in the treble. If your tube amp is rolled-off in the treble, then it might cluster the sound. There are too many interacting variables for others to say with certainty (e.g., your hearing, your ear/head shape, your DAC, your amp.)
I’d personally try a neutral solid state amp (following crossfeed as @Nuance mentioned, something like an SPL Phonitor). I’d also adjust the treble up with an equalizer/tone control to see if it is your hearing or how your hearing interacts with a particular amp.
Recording quality does vary a lot too, and pop/rock is often butchered badly in the studio. Something about being hearable in cars and the 1990s to early 2000s Loudness War… Technical headphones like the Clear and 800S can bring out massive source flaws that speakers with room interactions might mask. By they way, I’m mostly using the original Clear and 800S these days.
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An upgrade, or even a change, may provide what you’re looking for, or it may not. There’s no way to be 100% sure without listening. There are just too many variables, including the source material, your hearing and listening level, the gear, and whether we’re using the terminology the same way.
For example, if when you say that “instruments sound clustered at times”, do you mean that they all sound like they are coming from the same place in space OR do you mean that you can’t easily pick apart the individual instruments in terms of what they’re playing and their tone/timbre?
The differences could just be in the recordings. Some material is better than others as an exemplar for certain musical traits/technicalities. And even in a single genre, there’s no way to know how it was mastered and it could be that a given track or album is intended to sound bunched up.
Beyond that …
You have a source (the CD player) that, depending on which version it is, is either using Wolfson DACs or TI/Burr-Brown. Those are both known for a lovely rich tone and smooth, warmer, sound, but won’t generally be cited as the best options for staging, imaging, layering or separation.
Then you have a tube amplifier, about which the very same thing could be said.
So … you’ve got some experimenting to do.
The easiest part is to try different genres and recordings. For example, if you’re getting solid imaging, staging and separation/layering from some recordings and not others, then it’s likely the material itself that is the “culprit”. In that case, there’s no much you can do about it other than using things like Waves NX, “OoYH” or matrix/crossfeed functions on various amplifiers for the “offending” recordings.
You could try running a DAC like the latest Schiit Modi 3E (or any other, competent, non-Wolfson/TI/Burr-Brown based DAC) from the digital output on your CD player, and into your amplifier. That will have different traits than the one in your CD player; the DAC chips the Modi 3E uses are well known for solid separation/layering and imaging, and are notably more incisive than the Wolfson or TI/BB chips.
Don’t think there’s a quick “this will fix it” path here … without properly understanding what needs “fixed” (if anything).
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It could be either, better DAC’s, Headphones and Amps can provide better perception of separation, not necessarily a significantly bigger stage, but the perception of space around the instruments, but they won’t fix a bad recording, and there are a lot of those.
Headphones are MUCH more unforgiving of bad recordings, at least to me than even very good 2Ch setups, I can forgive some of the 1960’s style all left right or center mixing on a 2Ch speaker system much more easily than I can on headphones. As noted crossfeed can help address that to a point.
One of the issues with discussing these things on forums, is your using words to describe your experience, that may not correspond with the experience I describe with those same words.
FWIW there are some stellar “rock” recordings, Bothers in Arms one of the first CD’s ever released is a stellar master, but a lot of early rock CD releases that were just Tape transfers from Vinyl masters were terrible, there are in some cases better re-releases.
But there are plenty of terrible releases being made even today.
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Peanut Butter of Vegemite guys?
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@Dagery I’d suggest going to a CanJam meet-up in Chicago in June or SoCal in September. Nearly everything is there to demo and also get show prices if buying new. Easy to make decisions quickly at one of these events given the gear and brands are present for evaluation.
With a couple of expensive exceptions, CD players and their internal DAC’s are really pretty poor. I have 2450 albums digitized which get rendered through Roon on a Mac and feed an external DAC.
You will be able to get more of the fidelity of the recordings. Good news, if you ever have a speaker set-up the same DAC will directly drive a amplifier.
Got my search narrowed down to a battle between the LCD-2 (current 2020 regular fazor one) and LCD-X (current 2021 one).
First questions: I plan to use my qudelix 5k as the source, but is this ideal?
Do the LCD’s need/would benefit from more power, or would the qudelix do just fine?
(The 2.5mm jack can output 200 milliwatts per channel, and the LCD’s are low impedance high sensitivity headphones, but maybe they can benefit from extra juice, I don’t know.) I first thought to run the qudelix into an atom amp, but according to my research and responses from smart people, stacking headphone amplification circuitry is a bad idea.
Also, would the DAC or amp performance bottleneck the quality and not let the LCD’s reach their full potential, or are they fine?
If I should go with another solution such as a desktop one, what do you recommend?
Next questions: What are the differences between the LCD-2f and LCD-X?
I can look at measurements and see the FR differences, but after eqing them identically, what are the technicality differences (separation, imaging, soundstage, timbre, detail, punch & slam, etc…)? How do they differ in presentation, FR aside?
A lot of people like metal571 have offered comparisons between say the LCD-2C and old LCD-X, but I have not seen this comparison made, even though they are only $200 apart.
I would just stop tripping over details and just try them, but in the southern US, there is no place to do so that I can find. I would have to just buy both and send back one possibly both of them, and I feel like it would kind of abuse the return policy, but if I have no choice,…
(Background for my selections of LCDs & qudelix: looking for headphones that can be freely eq’d to my warm, bassy tastes, while maintaining great technicalities, and the LCD’s look to be the answer. I mostly listen to music and watch movies in bed on my iphone, and the qudelix is the only option for parametric eq on iphone. Willing to change things for great sound if need be.)
If you’ve read this whole post, you’re awesome😂.
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I’m not awesome… but I knew that.
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I can’t imagine the LCD-2 ever sounding better than the X
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The LCD-X 2021 has better detail retrieval & clarity and better instrument separation compared to the 2F. Soundstage is a wash IMO, but the X images slightly better. Oh, and the X has better tonality out of the box. The 2F requires EQ to sound natural in my opinion, while the X doesn’t (even though I do EQ my X a little).
I’d personally run the Audezes on a nicer desktop system such as the Schiit Magnius & Modius or the JDS Labs Element III. I like giving planars power!
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Imo the lcd 2.2 pf is much better than the X. I’d pick it every time.
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So planars generally need more power? I’m guessing sensitivity and impedance don’t tell the whole story?
Thanks everyone for the thoughts and info btw!