Hello, i’m buying my first pair of audiophile headphones for home listening, currently choosing between HiFiman Sundara, HD6XX, HD600 and DT880 PRO 250Ohm. I don’t really have a prefered sound signature yet and also can’t try these headphones before buying at my city, can i have any advice about which of them considered better ones for starters?
Also will i be fine running those headphones from Audient ID4 MK2 or i really need dedicated DAC and AMP? (Currently i’m choosing ID4 because i also need XLR mic input)
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What type of music do you listen to? Besides listening to tunes, what will you be using the headphones for?
Based on a very brief internet search, I believe the Audient ID4 MK2 should be able to power all of your headphone choices.
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I listen a little of everything, but mainly EDM, DnB or rap. I am planning to use headphones for pretty much everything - gaming, music, movies, etc.
So i looking for headphones that will be good all around.
I saw a lot of recomendations to buy dedicated DAC/AMP for headphones, will DAC/AMP in audio interface like mentioned ID4 give different quality of sound or it’s just main thing that matters is power that can be put out?
Thanks for the info.
Do I think a dedicated DAC and amp or combo will perform better than an audio interface? Yes, absolutely. Will you immediately need one to get decent performance out of whichever headphone you purchase? Probably not. I recommend getting the headphone, trying it with the interface you have and then maybe getting a dedicated DAC and amp or combo later on.
As for which headphone to get, since a lot of the music you’ll be listening to benefits from bass extension, I’d be looking at a planar design such as the Sundara, Edition XS or maybe a used LCD-2: a used Focal Elex would be fire for those genres as well.
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Welcome, @OrigamikO !
@Nuance suggestions are excellent, and yes you will greatly benefit from an amp/dac. You can’t go wrong with a starting Schiit stack (Magni/Modi of some kind), or Hel if you want an all-in-one device with a mic input. If you go with a Magni I would choose the Magni+ over the Heresy, as that’s my preference. But Heresy is a very well executed op-amp design by all accounts.
I do want to say you also can’t really go wrong with the 6xx, and the Sundara and 6xx make a good contrast or complement to each other. There is some debate as to which is “better” which is pointless in that they are different and have different strengths. It gets down to preference. The Hifiman has a brighter, more treble forward presentation than the 6xx imo, which may or may not be to one’s preference.
But you can’t go wrong with either as they are both a good starting point. Good luck, happy listening 
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@Nuance @robson Thank you for your answers!
Main problem with DAC and AMP is that at my place i can’t buy anything that mentioned as good combos (Schiit stack or Atom stack). Maybe there is more DAC/AMP combos to consider?
Same problem with HD6XX, i was able to find only at second hand resellers at ~295 USD, with price of Sundara ~350 USD and HD600 ~370 USD choice is even tougher.
Also i don’t find a whole lot mentions of DT880 PRO 250Ohm, with price at ~260 USD is it inferior to headphones metioned above?
Also to correct my main use case of headphones, now i can say that most of the time headphones will be used for gaming and to the lesser extent for casual listening, maybe that change preffered choice?
Basically now i have around 700 USD to buy new headphones, audio interface for headphones and mic and mic itself. For now i’m planning to buy AT2035 ~150 USD, Audient ID4 ~150 USD, and rest of buget i have for headphones.
My bad, I was assuming you were in the States…
I’m looking for a new, 3-metre cable for my DCA Ether 2s, but have some quite specific requirements.
The background to this is that I love the VIVO cable it came with and would happily order another, longer one, but 1. I baulk at the $300+ asking price, 2. I want it to be compatible with my Hart Audio Cables multi-kit so I can use it with a range of amplifiers, some 6.35mm, others 4.4mm or XLR.
I contacted Hart Audio Cables to ask if they could replicate the thickness and suppleness of the VIVO and, while they can make thicker cables on request through the custom shop, these are the same as the older generation of Hart Audio Cables many of us are presumably familiar with, i.e. only marginally thicker, and much stiffer than their current offerings (not what I’m looking for, even if I think Hart Audio’s value for money and customer service are first rate).
I’ve explored other options, but have so far drawn a blank: it seems the DCA VIVO’s blend of thickness and suppleness is quite unusual, even before you get to the question of wanting a Hart Audio-compatible mini-XLR at the amplifier end.
Can anyone point me in the right direction? What makes the DCA VIVO so thick yet supple?
The VIVO is a very nice cable, my Aeons came with one so I feel your pain…
I hate to say it but I feel like anything that has what you’re looking for will be a comparable price or more, sadly. The ZMF Lektrik cables are very nice, and supple also, but probably similar price or more. Other options in a really high quality cable that I can think of are definitely more $…
A couple less expensive options (maybe) are Halby Cables on Etsy, and Arachne Audio cables (arachneaudio.com)
Halby cables are very flexible and great quality, the wiring he uses is very good but not “premium”. I also don’t know that he will do connectors for DCA, you’d have to email him. Last time I checked with him he said he didn’t do them because he doesn’t own any DCA headphones, and he tests each cable before shipping.
Arachne Audio also makes a very nicely built cable, again high quality materials but not super premium fwiw. They are not as supple as the Vivo (the Halby and ZMF are), but still nice and flexible. He does make DCA terminated cables.
I hope this helps
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So, you have a $400 budget for headphones. You have selected four contenders.
My preference of these four headphones when paired with my favorite TUBE AND SOLID STATE amplifier for each, fall in this order:
- Sennheiser HD600 $370
- HiFiman Sundara, $350
- Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 250Ohm $260
- Massdrop HD6XX used $295
Since I own each of the headphones that you are considering, I have hooked them up to my system equalized on HeSuVi.
The Sennheiser HD600 sound very good and are very comfortable. HD600 only reach their full potential on my tube amplifiers. However, it sounds like you shall not be using tube amplification and would be looking to pair headphones with budget solid state amplification. Which instead brings us to be seduced by HiFiman Sundara. On solid state, the Sundara are going to likely perform better than the HD600. I just did a quick comparison listen on solid state and loved both of them but the Sundara has that slam that many new to headphone hobby describe when comparing these two on solid state. Lively, energetic in comparison. I think Sundara are the headphones you seek.
What about Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO 250Ohm? I absolutely LOVE mine. However, I am only playing DT880 these days on tubes. Likely most others that are pairing DT880 with solid state amplification WOULD likely describe them as an inferior choice to the HD600 and Sundara, as would I. On the other hand, I however WOULD NOT describe DT880 250ohm as inferior to HD6XX on solid state as my ears chose the DT880 over HD6XX. Again, this is all under the presumption that you are not considering tube amplification.
Therefore, HiFiman Sundara, $350 gets my vote for your use case, in your situation, within your four contending headphones.
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For competitive games I would choose dt880 for a better understanding of where the enemies are. The Dt series is well suited for such purposes. For other types of games it is not so critical, I think.
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@hottyson Thanks for you recomendation, there is couple things that i worried about Sundara.
First is yoke on Sundara from of all my choices looks least sturdy, won’t it fall apart after couple years of usage?
Second problem with Sundara that it’s low impedace headphone and i’m planning to power it from Audient ID4 MKII and that interface have high impedance (~22 Ohm according to Julian Krause measurments). Won’t high output impedance on interface distord sound of low impedance headphones such as Sundara? As another Julian Krause video suggest - ideally impedance of audio output should be at least 8 times lower than impedance of headphones. Is that so?
The yoke is flat stamped metal of adequate strength, but it may be the least of your worries…
Planar headphones love power (current) and more power. They’ll make loud sounds on a weak amp but it’ll be rough and inferior sound versus stronger amps. To my ears the differences are greater than with dynamic drivers. For planars I’d move up a class and run it with something much stronger. I run planars with a Schiit Lyr 3 or RebelAmp.
It has brutal treble artifacts. I have a DT880 600 ohm and use it with thicker pads and an equalizer. It’ll fry my ears out of the box. Once sorted the midrange is great, but it requires a lot of sorting.
The iFi ZenDAC combines a DAC and amp in one unit. However, its weak amp won’t power planar headphones well. Its fine with the HD 600 or 6XX. iFi sells stronger amps too.
My choice in this price range was and remains the HD600 on a warm amp, per all-around sound quality, neutrality, and reliability. I happily own a DT880 for experimentation but not as a first setup or a general use setup – owwww, that treble. I don’t like the loud middle bass and vocal roughness of the HD6XX, but that’s my personal taste. Many love it. I’d not buy any HiFiMan product at all. Been there.
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Thank you for suggestions, now i’m even more leaning to HD600, but it’s kind of hard to find in my country at price that fits into my budget. Also that whole DAC and AMP thing that heavily influence sound makes even harder to finilly choose something.
For now i need something that i can plug both microphone and headphones for ~150$ and best thing that i found is Audient ID4 MK2.
Take a look at Creative AE-5 sound card, it has a decent power reserve and produces a fairly quality sound.
As for the microphone, there is a microphone input and it works, it seems that you can’t expect more from it, it will do for voice chat or other not too serious recordings.
From the point of view of convenience, there may be nuances, the inputs / outputs will be on the back of your PC, you will need a long enough cable to connect headphones and a microphone.
Connectors: 3.5 mm jack.
I’m not personally familiar with Audient ID4 Mk2, so I won’t say if AE-5 is better, this is just an option that I propose to pay attention to, if you are not familiar with it yet.
It’s probably my favorite headphone of the ones you originally mentioned, but EQ is required for the genres of music you listen to IMO. This is because the HD 600 has bass roll off starting at about 100 Hz, which will significantly impact some of your music genres that require solid sub-bass to sound good. Just something to be aware of!
Buy a ZenDac for the HD 600 if you purchase one; it’ll bring performance up a level.
HiFiMan Sundara are quality built. As generic put it, nothing really to worry about there.
I read two things about the sonic performance are worrying you.
Your first concern deals with impedance rating. You quote someones person’s personal measurement of 22 ohms and we all can find the manufactures specification of 37 ohms. Headphone output of most any electronics should be compatible with either one of these specs. Again, nothing to worry about.
Your second concern deals with an “ideal” selection of pairing an amplifier to headphone. I too worry about this every waking moment of my existance. This is why I have an amplifier collection that is just as large as my headphone collection. So, if you would like to pair the ideal amplifier with the Sundara, as generic runs, as do I, the Rebel Audio RebelAmp is the perfect amplifier pairing for it. And the good news is that this amplifier does so at only $660.
Lastly, I connected both Sundara and HD600 to an Android phone headphone output in order to compare them on a less than ideal amplifier. Which is what you seemed to be very worried about. Both headphones performed marvelously without any distortion that you were concerned about. It seems that neither one of these headphones needs to utilize a dedicated headphone amplifier in order to perform wonderfully. Particularly the Sundara, which will sing heavenly from most any amplification. However, from my experience the HD600 will absolutely astound leaps and bounds when plugged into an expensive tube amp. But, I have already covered that ad nauseam. The point is that even out of an Android phone, the Sundara was marvelous! Beautiful heavenly bliss sang from each cup.
So, I think you can rest assured that none of these concerns should be a concern of yours concerning Sundara.
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You might take a look at iFi; they pack a lot of goodness in their lower and mid priced products. If you go with only ONE Senn OR HiFiman, take a look at their bundles of Dac and AMP directed specifically at those models.
Otherwise, look at something more general. @Lothar_Wolf can guide you as he has several metric tonnes of iFi equipment stored near all of his other gear.
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I would look at the HD 560S. It has much better soundstage than HD 600 and is about half the price.
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It sounds like the bastard love child of a Sundara and an HD599.