Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I hate it when I miss the fine print. I’ll assume haz is current tense, not past tense – in which case I’d agree with your suggestion(s). It’s a similar path that I took/evaluated in going from the HD650/HD6XX to the ZMF Eikon.
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it’s not easy being salsa verde
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Nice. I also prefer salsa verde and Thai green curry over the other types.
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Hello everyone,
My question regards comfort and heat build up inside the ear pads of closed back headphones. I am looking at either the Focal Eligia or the Sony MDR-Z7m2 or the Sony Z1R. Unfortunately I do not have a store near me to try them. I have some old Sennheiser phones and noticed how hot and clammy the area around my ears became and they started to feel heavy. This became a problem after about 10 mins.
Will this condition be the same with those models I am interested in?
Thanks for any advice.
I found the Elegia clamp pressure to be a touch much, especially after longer sessions.
For comfort in my closed cans, I’ve pretty much stuck to my Mr. Speakers (Dan Clark Audio) MASSDROP Ether CX. I find them to be comfortable.
I can’t speak to those particular cans, but I find suede/velour pad contact on skin to be more comfortable than leather/lambskin - and may help address the hot and clammy issue.
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Peoples,
Been reading about headphone tube amps, and the general note I have seen is that in order to enjoy the tube amp you need “hard to drive” headphones. So can you confirm that “hard to drive” are going to give me a better tube experience? I have found my current headphones (Drop HD58x @ 150 Ω, Focal Elegia @ 35 Ω, HIFIMAN Ananda @ 25 Ω) max out with very little volume, and can get harsh if I push it.
Can someone explain how I determine if a headphone is hard to drive? Is it specifically the impedance? I know I have seen that the HD600/650/6XX/800s are considered hard to drive at 300 Ω. Does that mean the Focal Clear are easy to drive at 55 Ω? What other headphones are “hard to drive”? I am looking for something < $2,000.
Thanks!
Edit: Just realized I don’t think I ever tried the HD6XX on my existing tube amp. They are 150 Ω so might be able to handle the tube amp output better. There is no switchable impedance on my tube amp 
I’m not an expert but to get the ball rolling, from what I read it’s not a matter of easy to drive or hard to drive.
The critical issue is that the amp and headphone are a proper match electrically. In other words, for a given headphone there are amps that will work well and amps that are not a good match.
Let’s see what the tube amp folks have to say.
Hard to drive? HiFiMan HE6se or Susvara 83.6db spl. You’ll need at least two watts of amp power to drive them correctly.
My tubed headphones run everything else pretty well. Know the specs of the amp and the headphones before you acquire them. I use my headamp GSX-mini for those hungry ones.
The tubed headphone amps I have are from ampsandsound. One has an 8/300 ohm option, the other a 32/300 ohm option. The New Kenzie Ovation has a five headphone impedance matching option.
There are different ways of being hard to drive. Theses include high resistance models such as the 600/650/6XX and various Beyerdynamic products . These can be effectively paired with OTL tube amps.
Planar headphones draw current, and have low impedance. They are not meant for OTL amps.
In today’s world the 600 family are medium difficult, but respond amazingly well to “better” amps. My Dan Clark AEON Flow Closed are low impedance (13 ohms) and do well with the Magni 3+.
Your headphones are pretty easy to drive,
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This is an over simplification. What this references is damping factor between an amplifier and transducer.
In OTL tube amps, the output impedance is usually high. In amplifiers using output transformers or solid state power sections, output impedance can be controlled. That is why most OTL amps are considered bad matches for low impedance headphones, and why non-OTL tube amps CAN be ok, mostly.
If the amplifier cannot control the transducer, you get flabby bass and lose resolution in other frequency ranges. Some people do actually enjoy this in some amp / headphone pairings, as the distortion can sometimes be perceived as pleasant. Usually not.
It’s about that simple. Only not.
Let’s compare two headphones: the HiFiMan HE6 and HD650. The HE6 is a 50 ohm headphone, where the HD650 is 300 ohms. It would be easy to compare 50 vs 300 and think that the HD 650 is a harder headphone to drive. That is not the case.
Some headphones require an unusually high amount of power just to adequately move the transducer in the first place. The HiFiMan HE6 is a classic example. This difficulty is directly related to a headphones’ sensitivity rating, or in other words, how efficient the transducer is in converting power to sound.
Leaving impedance out of it for a moment, if the amplifier cannot supply the power needed to drive the transducer to satisfactory volumes - and often having extra power / or headroom is desired as well - then the sound isn’t going to be stellar either.
Sensitivity is rated in two ways: dB/mW SPL, or dB/V SPL.
So, the HFM HE6 has a sensitivity of 83.5dB/mW. The HD650 is 100.5dB/mW. The more power that is applied, the louder the HD650 will get compared to the HE6. The HD650 is more efficient.
Because the sensitivity of the HE6 is so low it requires a much larger power source to get suitable volumes, AND because it’s impedance is so low it also requires an amplifier with much lower output impedance to control the driver accurately, this makes the HE6 one of the most challenging headphones to drive properly.
That’s why people use speaker amps to drive the HE6.
Combine sensitivity and headphone impedance to get a clear picture of how hard a headphone is to drive.
I hope that helps.
Enjoy.
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As a further comparison of the HE6 to HD650, enjoy the following:
Listening Loudness / Voltage Needed / Current Needed / Power Needed
HE6
85 dB SPL - 0.27 Vrms - 5.4 mA - 1.46 mW
100 dB SPL - 1.49 Vrms - 29.8 mA - 44.4 mW
110 dB SPL - 4.73 Vrms - 94.6 mA - 447.46 mW
115 dB SPL - 8.41 Vrms - 168.2 mA - 1414.56 mW
120 dB SPL - 14.95 Vrms - 299 mA - 4470.05 mW
VS
HD650
85 dB SPL - 0.09 Vrms - 0.3 mA - 0.03 mW
100 dB SPL - 0.52 Vrms - 1.73 mA - 0.9 mW
110 dB SPL - 1.64 Vrms - 5.47 mA - 8.97 mW
115 dB SPL - 2.91 Vrms - 9.7 mA - 28.23 mW
120 dB SPL - 5.17 Vrms - 17.23 mA - 89.1 mW
(From here.)
So, to reach 120dB on an HE6 you need 15 volts, 3 amps, and 4.5 watts of electricity from an amplifier who’s output impedance is less than 6 (the closer to zero the better, actually).
I don’t think the Dragonfly Cobalt is going to work. Even the Schiit Jotunheim can only output 3W at 50ohms. The THX 789 barely eeks out 3.7W at 50ohms. You get the picture.
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Power conditioner built for audio versus a UPS that my computer is plugged into? What would be better for my stack? Discuss 
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Power conditioners typically only provide surge protection and noise filtering.
A UPS needs to recreate the 60Hz AC power, and will often ensure a steady 120V even if the wall power has fluctuations. Filtering happens as part of the process. It also, obviously, has batteries incase the power goes out. Batteries need replacing from time to time, and they aren’t cheap.
So… What would be better for your stack? It depends on the problem. What issue are you trying to solve? Or is this an academic gear upgradeitus scenario?
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thanks to everyone for the feedback! he4xx is breaking in still i think - upper mids sounded like bad asmr youtube video quality at first. the recording quality of the acoustic guitar on the new Bartees Strange album is really good and that has nothing to do with headphones. i also got in the meze 99 noir and they are super fun. i wanted a closed back for when i need to be quiet or when i go back to an office and they’ll fit the bill. but yes i am wondering what’s next and it sounds like a used clear is the next step. there is just so much information out there. what i like about this forum is the content is manageable and consistent.
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It all depends on what you’re trying to do. I asked myself that question a couple of weeks ago because I had my work laptop/monitor, my home PC/monitor and my audio equipment and other crap all on the same desk, and all randomly plugged into whatever was available on my surge suppressor or my UPS and I didn’t have any more outlets for future equipment.
I decided that I was more interested in surge protection than power conditioning for my audio equipment, but wanted the battery-based UPS for my PC, so I looked into getting a new surge protector for the audio equipment, which would allow me to create 3 “power zones” under my desk, and tidy up all the cabling. Each surge protector/UPS would be plugged into a different outlet on the wall.
While I was researching surge protectors (there’s a really informative thread here, I found out that most of them lose their protection over time and don’t warn you, and that Zero Surge invented a surge protection technology that doesn’t wear out. They license the same technology to Brickwall and Surge-X. I bought their 8 outlet surge protector specifically for my audio equipment.
I have no idea if the sound has improved but I feel safer because the electricity in my town is horrendous and we constantly have brownouts. I also liked the fact that each pair of receptacles was isolated, so you could plug low current DACs and high current amps into different pairs.
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A regenerator would probably be best for audio. They have built-in surge protection.
(I don’t have one, yet)
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The typical computer UPS is definitely not what you want.
Most computer UPS output a signal that works for powering a computer but is not the same as the signal that comes out of the wall.
At a minimum you need what is usually called “true sine wave” which is the same type of signal that comes out of the wall.
Some UPS / power conditioners will add various features to provide “cleaner” power. That winds up being like discussing the benefits of different cables which can go off the rails, but everyone decides what they want to spend money on.
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Well, at the moment I have a UPS with two computers hung off of it, as well as a second surge protection power bar to power my audio stack on my desk. I am sure I am violating all sorts of electrical codes. I am going to bring a Woo Audio WA2 home in a few days and will probably plug it into a surge protector on a dedicated outlet. I was then thinking of moving my other desktop audio gear to it.
I noticed the UltraLink HDC150RM Power Conditioner is on sale 33% off, so then I thought maybe I should get another power conditioner for the Woo and rest of my desktop audio. Not sure if there is any additional value over just a surge protector.