SRH1840 is currently on sale. It has a neutral-bright signature, and tonal-wise, it’s comparable to HD600, although it should deliver more than the latter. As of today, it’s 30% off MSRP (at amazon).
Good luck.
Hey man, we are all genuinely trying to help you navigate options as you decide what will work best for you. I can’t help but notice there are some inconsistencies in your response with the information provided.
- Modius does indeed have a 4.0v on balanced output;
Maximum Output: 4.0V RMS balanced, 2.0V RMS single-ended
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Schiit does have inventory in-stock
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The Schiitr and Upscale Audio are open to demo products. Upscale Audio may require an appointment first, and you can always reach them via the chat function.
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[quote=“HeadphoneNoob, post:1011, topic:6620”]
Currently unaware if or how much decrease in power would occur with rca output from the dac. But I would have to assume at 10.5 wpc I don’t have too much to worry about.
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The DAC will not necessarily determine a decrease in power output, that will be within your amplifier
- [quote=“HeadphoneNoob, post:1011, topic:6620”]
Seems like the AKM works well, I may just take Falkins advice and go with the Saga+.
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The Saga+ is not a DAC, nor does it have balanced connections
I hope this helps clear up some of the information provided by others and myself.
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Whoops, double checked ASR, I thought the rca vrms we’re balanced. I am just confused still, which is probably creating confusion amongst all of you, but I may be wrong but someone in earlier posts or maybe a review I watched suggested a balanced dac.
Specifically for vrms.
I am not sure what the saga+ is for but Falkin said he listened to a modded HE6 with the saga and vidar. I assumed the vidar is the amplifier, after checking it was.
About Schittr, last time we had a lock down they were closed. And again back to what I said earlier, they only have 8 units on demo. First 4 were lower end units, including the tube amp, then asgard 3 for 5, don’t recall the 6th, think it was the Jott and last two were higher end units. No bifrost, and the magnius which I wanted to try.
Definitely things can change, but none of those units are what I seek.
But unfortunately still even with that information I still don’t know what to choose without a doubt
I’m going to give this one last shot to try and help, but it’s frustrating for me because it seems you have a hard time understanding and/or taking advice, and that you have a lot of wrong ideas about gear and what’s important and what is not.
First, ignore balanced vs single ended. The same signal gets to the amp both ways. Unless your DAC is more than ~ 15 feet from your amp, you don’t truly need balanced. Focusing only on balanced DACs is going to dramatically limit your choices and increase the cost of the DAC.
Aside: The term “balanced” has quickly become my biggest pet peeve in this hobby. Using the term balanced in regards to connections means something completely different than when it is used to describe amplification topologies. Even when used to describe amp topos, it’s often wrong too! I fricken hate the term because it confuses so many people and it’s oversimplification has lead to the belief that it’s just better - when in 99% of cases it’s actually irrelevant. Anyway… The balanced connection is the same technology used by the old telephone companies to get extremely long connections made without interference. That’s it’s only benefit - eliminating emi/rfi over long distances. This is also useful in recording studios where there are a bazillion devices and long cable runs junking up sound quality. Don’t believe me? Google it. See what actual electrical engineers say, and dump the ignorant audio fanboy trash like Josh Valour’s video where he regurgitates audio half-truths and yet clearly doesn’t even understand what the differences are between balanced amplification and balanced signal processing.
I already purchased the flux labs FA-10, cause I want to make sure I can get to that 7 wpc or more threshold, @50 ohms they are 10.5 W. It’s pretty foolish, but you’re not going to find an amp with 7 wpc @ 50 ohms for a decent price.
Cool. Enjoy it. You’ll never use more than 1/4 of that power, even with the HE-6se, but ok. It may not even sound good with the HE-6, but at least you have the power numbers covered. 
I was going to get the Modius since it got balanced outs, but it’s not producing 4vrms.
Why is that important to you? Do you understand why may not matter at all? Also, yeah it actually does do 4vrms.
Let’s tackle it from a different perspective then. Ever wonder what the input impedance of your amp is? No, not output impedance. INPUT impedance. As in, the impedance on the XLR and RCA connections going IN to the amp. It’s normally high. Super high. As in 10,000 to 75,000 ohms. (That is SUPER high.) Why? Line loading. That’s another thing you can go Google, but Wikipedia sums it up really well as such:
As cables between line output and line input are generally extremely short compared to the audio signal wavelength in the cable, transmission line effects can be disregarded and impedance matching need not be used. Instead, line level circuits use the impedance bridging principle, in which a low impedance output drives a high impedance input. A typical line out connection has an output impedance from 100 to 600 Ω, with lower values being more common in newer equipment. Line inputs present a much higher impedance, typically 10 kΩ or more.
The two impedances form a voltage divider with a shunt element that is large relative to the size of the series element, which ensures that as little of the signal is shunted to ground as possible and that current requirements are minimized. Most of the voltage asserted by the output appears across the input impedance and almost none of the voltage is dropped across the output. The line input acts similarly to a high impedance voltmeter or oscilloscope input, measuring the voltage asserted by the output while drawing minimal current (and hence minimal power) from the source. The high impedance of the line in the circuit does not load down the output of the source device.
These are voltage signals (as opposed to current signals) and it is the signal information (voltage) that is desired, not power to drive a transducer, such as a speaker or antenna. The actual information that is exchanged between the devices is the VARIANCE IN VOLTAGE; it is this alternating voltage signal that conveys the information, making the current irrelevant.
The basics of it are - you don’t want to load the DAC with a heavy workload and cause issues (like heat, noise, other stuff), you just want it cleanly producing an analog signal. Soooo… If you don’t need the power the DAC produces on it’s outputs, you just need the signal itself, who cares if it’s 2 or 4 volts when none of that is really driving the amplification process, and so long as the amp gets a useable signal? The amp handles amplification, not the DAC. Considering how hot your amp is, you may actually want a lower output voltage from the DAC (read as: quieter signals).
Also, a more important question may be, what happens when amplifiers like the Flux Labs FA-10 deviate from the standard impedance bridging engineering practices and uses a lower input impedance on their amp? (It’s far below 10kΩ, btw.) Is that going to overtax your DAC? Are they doing it to cheat on current amplification down the line? I don’t know what’s up with that decision, but it makes me wonder.
Also, imo ASR is great at picking out terms people don’t truly understand and adopting them in such a cultish and all-important manner as to make readers focus on it needlessly. Such as vrms and sinad. It’s like a magician getting you to focus on the deck of cards while someone picks your pockets, only instead of losing a few bucks you lose real understanding. Still a crime in my book.
Ok, so, do you know what vrms is? It is the root mean square of the PEAK voltage produced by a device’s output. Let me put that in layman’s terms: It’s a fancy statistical method of averaging the voltage output over time. Most circuits can only produce their peak values for a very short period of time before power or thermal limits kick in, so having a value that represents a more real-world and useful output value is handy. Considering that there are only 2 really useful maximum voltage measurements you can take on an output (peak and rms) then yeah… duh… use rms. So there you go, vrms demystified.
Seriously, and please I’m pleading with you, please put aside the notions you have on what specifications are good, which are bad, and just go experience different headphones, amps, and dac combinations for yourself without putting yourself into crippling debt. I know its hard to go demo stuff right now. Patience man. It’s ok to start small and work your way up. Please.
This is the last time I’m going to lend you advice. I feel like Daedalus advising you not to fly too close to the sun.
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Very nicely explained, @ProfFalkin. Nominated for a post of the month.
I don’t think that @HeadphoneNoob has trouble taking advice. Far from it. @HeadphoneNoob, you take too much advice, and need to filter it better.
Truer words were never said.
That’s why I’m just repeating them here.
There is NOTHING in the above good advice that causes difficulty in understanding. May I suggest that you sort advice that talks about specs and numbers that you do not thoroughly understand, that you file it into a big pile or folder for future research. And then ignore it completely while you follow the non-numerical advice of @ProfFalkin above.
Later - preferably a year or so later, when you are not involved in decision-making about current equipment, you can go through it calmly and figure out if it’s useful or BS.
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Coming up on 4 months since above advice was initially offered, perhaps it’s a good time to evaluate progress to date. Where did you start. Where do you want to go. Are you pleased with results to date.
Perhaps define your goals and intended steps to achieve, and others can line up/calibrate their participation accordingly.
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Good news:
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Yea you see your point is very valid, you guys including @ProfFalkin give me the right advice.
Then you got people over there telling me something else. They know not of these conversations, nor is it a person. It could be a reviewer puts some other crazy crap in my head.
I gave up on a lot of that stuff and was going down the road you guys suggested of merely just enjoy the music, and if you’re not make changes to have that happen. Just briefly summarized.
However, now with these damn headphones got me paranoid again and just trying to make my investment work for me and not go down the wrong road after I already made this turn. Basically need to navigate the road I took.
Hey thank you for clearing it up. I know I always create a storm on here with my numerous questions and concerns. But a clear and precise explanation like that helps me.
I know that took up a lot of your time and I really appreciate that.
It’s difficult to understand and your original advice of crawl before run. But this is what I wanted.
I think with more experience I would have probably solved all these issues myself. But I don’t so I try to ask for your guidance as a community.
I hope you all know, I didn’t want this post here. I didn’t want to bring you into this or take your time up. I posted on the main section and I was looking to get the attention of HE6 owners. But I guess the moderator wanted to shift my question here. Basically creating this situation, if I post something not here I don’t expect anyone to jump in unless they truly want to. I knew this would happen and that’s why I chose that route, but it didn’t work out how I planned.
I looked on one of the threads and people even mentioned the HE6, new or old version, as some of their top picks for headphones and I really wish I got and was trying to reach them.
If you own these headphones you can give a whole bunch of advice and your personal experience on changes that made these headphones even greater or how they were meant to be just to get ideas.
Cause look where we all are, and yet still I have no idea what to look into like A B and C. Take a chance on those, you can provide great advice, but what concerns me and makes overthink even more is will this pair well with these headphones. Which I don’t expect someone to know that doesn’t own these headphones and experimented.
As I said before, even that itself is not the absolute answer to my ears. Just wanted insight.
Results to date are fantastic. However, now I am on a new journey and you see where I want to be by my never ending questions and transactions.
Right now I am just trying to make my decisions workout. Like I said if I didn’t run before I crawl, this wouldn’t have been as brutal. Even further constraint with my budget. So it’s already two strikes. So right now just trying to make the best temporary decision with all these things in mind. The Modius is the only thing which comes to my mind, and yes forget balanced. I see the AK chip is possibly my choice to pair well with these headphones for time being based on that HE6 article I read on headfi, it’s not a forum thread.
The patience that forum members have on here amazes me and is something that I need to work on myself. If I had any advice to give here is that we were all new to the world of audiophilia at some point in our lives and we gained and shared knowledge from others and forged our own paths of learning and experiences, both good and bad. Take time out and read everything you can by scanning forums and articles, reading reviews, taking notes. That time spent cannot be understated. There is no quick path as what works for one may not work for you. Jot down a list of short term goals that are achievable based on a set of parameters defined by YOU, and never forget why we are here…to have fun and enjoy music. It should never feel like work.
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I don’t intend for those posts of mine to make people feel bad. I try to help, pass along knowledge, and say my truths.
My truths aren’t your truths, tho. Your truth is you want what you want, and I don’t even have to understand your motivations for that to be important. I remember being in your shoes though, and spending a lot of money, only to be disappointed and end up bitter from it all. I guess it’s a form of empathy, wanting to spare you from that.
I’ll go against what I previously said and give just a little more advice. Just learn from the journey. This hobby is about exploration as much as it is about music, and traveling down new paths can be hard. There is a difference between having a map, and knowing the path. I hope you find a good map, and have a happy journey.
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Mainly buy stuff you can afford and listen, or try stuff in a store/demo tour and then buy what you like. Listen for yourself if your goals actually involve music. Getting stuck in data and gear-head machinations takes (my) time away from music. Explore, listen, and learn. Your ears will guide your way, and it’ll all gel at some point.
Conventional audio data paints a rough profile: bright, warm, neutral, detailed, relaxed, capable of full range extension, and a not a whole lot more. However, knowing the data can quickly rule products in or out of further consideration.
Improving data collection and communicating experiences beyond the basics actually involves PERCEPTION SCIENCE rather than “subjectivity” – this is a quite formal process but alien to most people in the audio world.
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I am amazed and impressed with the amount of patience and information offered in this particular thread. While I have been in this hobby for over 50 years I would not presume to offer advice as several of you, and especially ProfFalkin, have been spectacular in helping HeadphoneNoob on his/her journey towards headphone Nirvana.
My only suggestion, if it has not already been proffered, is to consider checking with companies such as The Cable Company who lend out equipment to try before buying. I am not specifically promoting The Cable Cable Company but just using it as an example. I have no affiliation with them nor have I ever done business with them but they do appear to have an interesting business model.
Also, if possible, purchasing pre-owned equipment may allow you to obtain items at a “good” price so if you decide you don’t like it you can sell it at a minimal loss or no loss at all. This may ease the financial burden part of the journey. By the way, I think having access to people such as are on this forum creates a major shortcut in getting closer to what one may enjoy. It turns many years of trial and error into perhaps months or just a few years, and with a significantly less financial investment.
In the meantime, enjoy. I applaud those who offer their precious time and vast experience in helping all of us to enjoy this crazy, amazing and wonderful hobby. Ultimately, we should all feel a sense of passing the torch onto others so they may also do so for the next generation of music lovers.
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What does this mean to you? How would your investment work for you? The best sound possible? Or learning what you like, using your investment as a learning opportunity? I don’t read that you know what you want, or why you want to buy something. If you approach this as being scared you’re buying the wrong thing, you will. If you approach this as “am I going to learn about what I like and this thing I’m buying,” you won’t.
I would encourage you to pause and figure out in a rough idea what you want, how you’re going to listen to music. Don’t forget this is about listening to music not a race for the best toy. If you need something, get something cheap - a modi 3 or ifi zen for a dac - because they are good. And figure out why they are good.
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Lots of sage advise given to date. One thing is to consider making your purchases from places with good return policies, even if you end up paying a small restocking fee at vendors like Schiit Audio. Making a decision is tough at times, but sometimes you need to pull the trigger and get on with it.
Lastly, don’t pay attention to ASR specs. That alone will give you a headache.
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ASMR - relaxing for some
ASR - relaxing for no one
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This is gold and gave me a good chuckle. Thank you!
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Hey I don’t take anything negatively, even when people are trying to be rude. Not that anyone here has been rude to me.
It’s basically you want to help or you don’t, regardless of what is said. I see a lot of people are reaching out and I wish we didn’t keep going around in circles.
@galapac I think the issue is I do so much of that it’s making things a bit more confusing. I think I’ve easily invested previously at least 40 hours of research into understanding the fundamentals. I put hours into this as well, I just think for one the issue is more 2020 2019 relevance. I can see threads and posts from before and I mean they go way back. So what they decided then has possibly changed or there maybe better options and even cheaper now vs then.
I would say that 90% of the questions, or everything prior to this last purchase is strictly from trying to learn from the outside.
But everyone here does have wonderful patience, and I’m not trying to test anyone’s patience. That’s why I mentioned earlier I didn’t want to bring this topic to this section of the forum.
I certainly hope for your sake that you have figured out a different approach to sex.
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