These genres absolutely shine on the Aeolus. The Aeolus is kind of the chameleon of the ZMF lineup, as it is easily tuned to preference by swapping pads. The stock pads give you more bass and treble energy, while the Universe suede pads make it a bit more like an ultra-HD650 (only without the high and low rolloff) where the mids and vocals are the star of the show, exactly where the heart of those genres live.
Its not an amp picky headphone, but it does scale well with high level tube (and some solid state) amps - something you can decide later if you want to get into.
Most of the $ is being sunk into the headphone here, as that is the core of most headphone chains. (Changing an amplifier in the chain won’t make an Elegia sound like an Ananda, for example.) Skip the mid-fi headphones right from the start, and focus on this first. Both products really hold value well, so if you do ultimately sell one or the other, you’re not out 50% of the MSRP (like with Topping or HFM stuff).
If you get a set of cans that work with your preferred music you’ll be happy for a long time and wont be wasting $ on more entry level stuff looking for a sound they cant generate. Nothing wrong with entry level as at least you’re listening but you already have a stated budget that can get you something pretty good. DAC/Amp combos that get you good baseline sound for relatively little are pretty plentiful. Schiit, IFI, Topping, etc are all companies that could get you something decent for source gear. The Asgard 3 is well regarded around these parts and is a good starting point for research for ya.
Great tips already offered above. I also would allocate more budget to the headphones as opposed to the DAC and amp.
For one set of cans: Aeolus with Asgard 3 and AK4490 card (as suggested above) or same but no card and Modius DAC instead for $100 more.
For two sets of cans: same as above but HD6XX plus Focal Elegia or Ananda or Sundara, which will give you versatility between dynamic open back and dynamic closed/open planar.
all solid advice… I also agree with @ProfFalkin and @bpcarb suggestions… Focus most of your budget on the Headphones then the amp… then the DAC…
I would go with either the Aeolus or Clear… but, I will say I prefer the Aeolus over the Clears…but, Clears are easier to attain.
I personally would go with the Schiit amp and DACs suggested here as well. Though, there are plenty of other options… the recommendations are the safest bets as, they tend to hold resale value more than others.
The Professor and others give a very reasonable alternative path. The path I suggested gives you an exceedingly versatile amp. It also saves a big chunk of your budget for future headphones - while giving you a great reference and headphone that most of us actually use. The HD-6xx (I have had an HD-580 since they came out) paired with the Lyr 3 gives you the reference that @Resolve and many others used to describe headphones.
And while I also pair the Grado RS1e and the Hifiman HE 560 with the Lyr 3, I find I keep coming back to the sound of the HD-6xx as a completely useable and enjoyable reference. My personal alternate path is to upgrade the STAX side of my equipment, using the BiFrost2 to drive both the Lyr 3 and the STAX (balanced) amp.
I absolutely agree with @ProfFalkin and @bpcarb that the key component you will be buying are the headphones. Looking at your budget, the Aeolus will soak up $1200 of it.
I mentioned that I was a tightwad… I mean budget-sensitive. I looked at your post. I considered that budgets change over time. The key in my advice post was “if you are willing to bide your time”.
The ZMF Aeolus may well be your end game - or the Focal. I was emphatically NOT addressing that end-game headphone. I was outlining a step process that will give you a good deal of enjoyment, and that will position you to make that right choice with your budget for your higher-end headphone. Probably 6 months to a year from now, if you budget the way I do.
I suspect that @TylersEclectic, @ProfFalkin, @bpcarb and some others are willing to budget more than I am. On the other hand, I am blessed with a spouse that has gifted me over the past 3 years with a VPI Prime Scout with Ortofon 2M Bronze, and a pair of Hifiman HE-560s. She has claimed she married me for my stereo , and likes to make occasional upgrades.
Happily married since 1976. Take that for balanced.
Again, some great advice. The Schiit Asgard 3/Lyr 3, Schiit Modius, and Aeolus sounds like a really nice setup to think about. The Clears are something I have been interested in for a while and I have seen them in the $950-1000 range used. The Aeolus was not on my radar, but looks very interesting as well - going to look into those more. Originally thought the Elegia, Lyr 3 and either one of the DAC modules or a separate DAC might be a good way to go, but understand both suggestions - starting with the HD6xx or kicking up the $$$ on the headphones first and dropping the amp and DAC down some. Both give good food for thought. As an FYI, I have had a little home recording studio off and on for a number of years (more off the last few), so I am used to really “ listening” to music/recordings and analyzing tracks for mixing, etc. Also being a musician (and a little anal), I am pretty picky about my instruments, their tone, playability, woods used, builder/luthier, etc. I think I may be leaning towards putting more money into the headphones and starting lower end on the amp and DAC and working my way up. I enjoy the research and all the tips really help.
Question about the Aeolus, how are the dynamics/slam on these? I know some cans have a softer presentation, some more aggressive, I want something that can do a great job with acoustic instruments and voice, but can also have good impact when needed. Probably lean towards a less dark headphone and more towards something that is more open/airy and does not emphasize any one particular frequency range. Goes deep down, but not flabby, great mids for the acoustic/vocal stuff and good clean and clear highs. Definitely open to any more ideas. Very helpful!
Last thing, trying to determine if the Aeolus are open or closed, I know more research will help on that. As I mentioned earlier, closed back may be where I need to start due to listening environment and girlfriend. One of the reasons I was looking at the Elegias as a possibility.
Ok, read the ZMF site a little more closely this time and the Atticus is the closed back, the Aeolus is the open version of the Atticus. Having never had a pair of open back, just not sure what expect, in terms of “bothering those around you” and any other issues to be aware of in a real world/living room situation.
This is an interview where Zach talks about the ZMF sound and his background as an acoustic guitar/banjo player and guitar builder, which might line up with what you’re looking for:
My apologies in advance for the length of this post. I’d like to chime in with what I think are three key considerations for you. I hope they provide some clarity; I’m trying to simplify the options for you, not complicate things!
When I first got into the hobby I purchased a pair of closed back headphones so that my wife and I could be in the living room together even if she was watching tv or a movie. Apart from the isolation they offer, closed back headphones provide certain benefits that don’t really align with your stated audio and musical preferences. Often, closed back headphones are great for their bass and for those who like electronic music. Some closed backs are more neutral, though. The Elegia are a great example of this (I can’t speak for the ZMF closed headphones; I’ve simply not listened to them enough). I’ve demoed the Elegia and think they’re great. But they’re not a patch on the Clear, which I own. The basic fact of the matter is that if you want a spacious, open and airy sound - while also being well balanced across the entire frequency range and having decent bass and treble extension - (as you state above) you need to go with an open back pair of headphones. And open back headphones will not provide any isolation for you or for others near you. They’ll hear what you’re listening to (and vice-versa). In the end, I abandoned my wife in the living room and went to listen to my music on open back headphones in another room.
I think you’ll be impressed by most high-end headphones, be they new or used, in the $900-1200 range so long as they align with your sound preferences (more on this at the end). By the time you’ve saved up for an upgrade to the amp or DAC, you’ll be intimately familiar with the sound of your setup and you’ll readily appreciate the improvements new components will offer.
As others have suggested, there is much to be said for stretching immediately to a pair of high-end headphones that you’ll cherish for a long, long time (especially as your budget makes this possible). You wouldn’t need to upgrade them any time soon. Note that for ZMF headphones, which aren’t mass produced but rather hand-crafted beauties, Zach writes that, “Above all, we take pride in what we do, and want to make sure each headphone lasts its current owner a lifetime.” You’ll also spare yourself the time and expense of experimenting with inferior mid-fi headphones that may well leave you wanting. It’ll be cheaper, in the long run, just to reach straight to the Aeolus. You could buy a pair, ride off into sunset, and never look back.
Having said that, there is something to be said for being able to appreciate fully your high-end headphone because you’ve heard lesser ones. You can always add a used headphone like the HD 6XX or HD 600 to your collection at a later date to see how you like them and to get a wider frame of reference.
Since I’m not sure you’ve had much chance to identify your sound preferences for headphones with absolute certainty, I would encourage you to buy used gear so that you can sell it again without much of a loss if you decide to switch to a different presentation. You mention preferring a “less dark headphone.” But would a warm headphone be appealing (one with an emphasis in the mid/upper bass)? Or a bright one (with an emphasis in treble, or an upward sloping from bass to treble)? If you’re not sure, tread carefully.
From what you’ve written, I think you could narrow your options to the Aeolus and the Clear. It may come down to which presentation better suits your preferences. @ProfFalkin and others: would you describe the Aeolus as slightly warm? (I’ve not heard them for long enough to be able to comment). The Clear are often lauded for being nicely balanced (see Tyll Hertsen’s review), having both solid, tight bass reproduction and good treble extension and smoothness (Tyll says they’re not bright; I agree but I’d say they do have a nice bit of treble sparkle). BUT, I’m not sure the Clear’s mids would serve you as well as the Aeolus. As ProfFalkin notes, that’s the part of the frequency range that best suits your musical preferences. Also, you write that you are “pretty picky about my instruments, their tone, playability, woods used, builder/luthier, etc.” I wonder if this implies that you might be better suited to the Aeolus?
Finally, a disclaimer when it comes to choosing between the Clear and the Aeolus: I am fairly new to this hobby; ProfFalkin has a great deal more experience than me - we’re talking orders of magnitude more knowledge than me - so put more stock in what he says than in my suggestions.
Thanks Tchoupitoulas for taking the time to offer your thoughts, some very good points. I am leaning towards buying used, for the reasons you mentioned, although, if I go the ZMF route, that is probably not going to happen. I do think spending the money on better headphones at the front end is the way to go.
On the warm vs. bright presentation, I feel fairly certain that a laid back or a dark sounding headphone is not want I am looking for at this point. This does not exclude a headphone that has warmth by any means, but not at the expense of the highs. I would probably rather it lean a little on the bright side, if I had to chose, but who knows since I have yet to try anything - proof is in the pudding, as they say.
I would like to ideally like to start off with a closed back, for the reasons mentioned above and the comments you made about being in the same room as your wife and not disturbing her, but an open back is the ultimate goal. The Atticus looks interesting, but I would probably step up to the Aeolus if I was to go the ZMF route, they sound like a great option, as do the Clears. That being said, maybe the Aeolus would be a better fit than the Clears, sound wise, probably could not go wrong with either, frankly. I do see there is a lot of love here for the ZMF headphones, as well as the Focals, so this helps a lot.
Another thing I will need to deal with is using a longer cable, likely ±15’, possibly a foot or two longer. This is a long cable for headphones and makes me think I will likely need to go balanced, now or in the not too distant future. My main system is across the room from my sitting area and that situation is not likely to rchange. Not ideal I know, but something I will need to deal with.
Going to change my mind here. Auteur or Verite would probably be better for you in the ZMF line. Aeolus will never have the treble speed or detail of those two - not that Aeolus treble is bad, mind you, it just doesn’t have the emphasis there you seem to desire. Both are a little out of budget, unfortunately.
The Clears might be the better path for your first foray into this.
An advantage of the Clears is that they sound excellent even out of a highly affordable setup. The Cavalli Tube Hybrid synergizes nicely with them and is a steal at $175. I pair mine with the Airist RDAC, which is slightly dark. It’s not for sale right now, though, so you might opt for the Modi Multibit instead. Here’s a strong, authoritative endorsement of this setup. Also, take a look at @lost33’s comments on the Clear and the Lyr 3 here and elsewhere on this forum.
If you get a pair of Clear used, look carefully at the photos in the sale listing to see if the pads or the underside of the headband are discolored. They can get gnarly pretty quickly and Focal has exorbitantly overpriced replacement parts. If you were to get a pair, you’d do well to get a headband cover to protect your investment. You mentioned the price range of $950-1000; you can get them for $800 if you’re patient and lucky, and if you keep an eye on the listings (do you know about the devbrada which compiles the for sale listings on Head-Fi?).
If you opt for a closed back, I’d recommend the Elegia. Others have commented favorably about the Shure 1540. I’ve not heard it but here’s a thread for you to check out.
If you’re set on closed, I believe this narrows things down to the Elegia, Atticus, and Eikon in this general price range. I believe Adorama is selling the Elegia for $690 now ($429 special earlier this week). The Atticus is possibly not your preferred sound signature, but will defer to others’ input. I also have a need for closed, and have an Eikon on the way.
Imo, Atticus is the mid-range/vocal virtuoso, and it isn’t for everyone. It’s the only ZMF I really suggest hearing before buying (assuming one does proper research for matched preferences first, of course) because it’s so unapologetically rich.
Eikon is more W shaped, and a very exciting listen. Still a favorite.
Elegia is (and I know some of you will dislike this statement) Focal’s worst headphone. I dislike the shout and etch it presented. It was fatiguing. I wouldn’t recommend it. I would say one would be far better served by saving up for a Stellia. … At which point you would be into Verite Closed $$ territory, which I think is the better sounding headphone still.
Good insights based on your extensive and direct experiences. I chose the Eikon over the Atticus and Elegia, consistent with the factors that you mentioned. For a closed back, there are limited options at that lower price point.
I know I wrote earlier @tterral that I’m trying to simplify and not complicate things for you but since there are fewer closed back options, you might also consider IEMs - if, that is, you don’t mind their fit and comfort. They could be a viable alternative, one that comes with exceptional sound quality even if their presentation is inescapably different from over-ear headphones.
I recently picked up a pair of the Campfire Audio Andromeda 2020. I got them for several reasons, not the least of which are their decent isolation, the ability to use IEMs in my apartment when it’s hot - and when, as a result, I can’t listen to over-ear headphones - as well as for their portability, and for their engaging, musical qualities. While the Andro 2020 might be a bit too dark for your tastes, their soundstage (such as it is for IEMs) is excellent, their resolution is outstanding, they’re fast, they present micro-dynamics and detail especially well, they’re reasonably punchy for BA IEMs, and they have lovely treble smoothness and sparkle. I’m still getting used to their sound, so I’m hesitant to say the following, but I think they may possibly rival the Focal Clear for most of the things I value besides slam; they’re almost as clear, and their sense of spaciousness, imaging, and soundstage are broadly comparable, given the different presentations of IEMs vs circum-aural headphones (bear in mind that the Clear’s soundstage is pretty narrow to begin with). I’ve not done a back-to-back comparison between the Clear and the Andro, though, because it’s been too hot here recently (and because the AC unit in my apartment makes it pointless to listen to the Clear).
You might prefer the v3 of the Andromeda, not the 2020 version, as they slightly less dark. The Campfire Audio Ara and the Solaris might also appeal, the former for its mids, the latter for its slam and holographic soundstage, at least from what others have said about them.
Ok, I’ve added too much text to this thread for one day. I’ll leave you all in peace!
A lot to mull over over here. My inclination is to go with a less expensive closed (maybe the Eligia, if it is shouty or fatiguing I will definitely sell it and move on to something better), one of the Schitt amps, with either a module or separate DAC. Let that settle in and see how I like it and how much I will be using it. If everything goes as I think it will, then spend the money on a good open pair of headphones. I doubt that I will have more than a nice closed back and a really good open back pair. I can definitely see upgrading the DAC and amp later as well, but the advice for going with the better headphones first seems very solid to me. Who knows what will ultimately take place after I take a bite out of the apple, but it looks to be a fun ride either way.
With the longer than normal cable run I mentioned previously, how critical is it to have a balanced headphone amp? Will a single ended unit work just as well?
Appreciate all the help and I am guessing I’ll be back with more questions, and hopefully some insights for newbies like me, down the road. Thanks again and I am always open to any suggestions or other insights.
Balanced interconnect cables will reject noise due to how they are built and grounded. Most headphone cables usually are not shielded and grounded like this, so balanced or single ended don’t really matter for noise rejection. 20 foot cables shouldn’t pose a problem, but the shorter the better. 20 meters… That’s different.
Would it be possible to use the amp next to where you listen, and use a shorter / normal length headphone cable? As in, make the interconnect from dac to amp the long cable run? If so, a balanced DAC using balanced XLR outs for that long run would get you the best of both worlds.
, and likes to make occasional upgrades. 
