When this covid is done, I’ll be going to a lot more live music. No better reference - unless it’s a stadium concert.
3 Likes
Hey @robur44
Cable for the ZMF? I personally use the stock cable on my Aeolus and Auteur - I’m perfectly happy with the stock 1/4 cable.
Forgive my lack of comprehension but I am unclear what you mean by ZMF upgrade - do you mean in terms of cables? I assume that’s what you mean. That’s entirely up to you and whether you think the additional cost is justified or warranted in your case. I may be entirely the wrong person to respond given my general scepticism of cables!
Does danacabel refer to data cable? If so, that is a bit of a hornets nest. I have a full spectrum of budget and eye wateringly expensive cables on hand, the differences between them are not night and day, in my experience. I don’t discount perceivable differences. However, to me these differences have consistently been marginal. An improvement elsewhere in the chain has been more significant e.g. improve the source component or use a better connection type / implementation. I follow the age-old British audiophile logic of source-first (get that right before anything else is even considered).
Some very basic comparisons: AQ Carbon vs. QED Reference vs. Supra USB 2.0, I perceive a marginal difference, they each impart a subtle sonic flavour. Amazon branded Coax (£2) vs. QED Reference Coax (£120) some sonic differences, but again, marginal. On the higher end, Audio Note AN-Vx (£1000/m) vs. Chord Clearway (£100) RCA between DAC and Amp there is some perceivable sonic differences, but it isn’t night and day and for most people that £900 saving would benefit some other part of their system in a greater way. In short, cables should be the least of your concern until you are satisfied elsewhere, then, perhaps, those marginal difference will have greater relevance and value.
I have not tried any Norne cables, but as I’m generally sceptical about cables (as noted above) and somewhat cynical of those making high claims, I would be quite unlikely to recommend them, even if I liked them. I know that the value of a cable to an individual is unlikely to be quantifiable simply in terms of sonic improvement alone, unless the individual is chasing that final +x% of sonic improvement at any cost, It is more likely to be that said cable is objectively nicer (materials), longer, better made etc., for this reason I never make recommendations about cables.
My apologies if that was profoundly unhelpful - perhaps someone who perceives the differences to a greater degree (in terms of sonic differences) might provide some suggestions for cables to audition.
Arh, my apologies - I wrongly assumed that was a typo.
@robur44 I have no experience with those cables.
Hello David,
Thanks a lot for your expansive answer.Next week I will buy vérité closed and now I will use stock cabel.
Probably later I buy better one.
Michal
Dne ne 31. 1. 2021 20:58 uživatel David via The HEADPHONE Community <headphones@discoursemail.com> napsal:
1 Like
Are you talking about something that happened here, or in another forum? Your post is a little light on details.
2 Likes
I understand your frustration and it would be great if there was some kind of universal standard, but sadly it is not possible.
If we ignore the fact that there are some reviewers who have other motives (money, clicks, fame, whatever), the rest of the people who post reviews or try to help out in forums can only do their best.
While we can have measurements that inform us of exact specifications, the fact that listening to music is a very personal and subjective thing, means it is impossible for all of our opinions to match.
For example, something that I find bassy, others may find bass light etc.
The only thing you can do is try to find reviews and info on things that you have already tried, that way, you can see if the other person’s view of something matches yours. And even then, just because you agree on on product, doesn’t mean you will agree on the next.
6 Likes
I get your point but I strongly believe this forum is not a place where people recommend gear on money basis only.
Every time I asked help to the community I’ve had a lot of different suggestions, in different price ranges.
As for the recommendation of Schiit Asgard 3 it’s been suggested against other more expensive piece of equipment. As I recently wrote in a post the real problem sometimes is that we have to know what we want. It happens we want to add a piece to our stuff but we haven’t clear ideas and we end up running after the last new thing.
For sure there are reviewers and YouTube channels that do hype mediocre products.
I think we all know them and we can avoid them.
There are a lot of nice people out there that follow passion in what they do and are really helpful.
Being able to chose stays to our critical abilities.
Enjoy
3 Likes
DF is the relation between output impedance (dominantly the R and C component but also L ) and the headphone impedance. The main influence is in the lower octaves since driver resonance impedance peak is situated there. Impedance curve can curve up again in the higer mids, depending on the inductance of the driver. (correct my if I’m wrong, I’m no expert but think I grasp the basic concept)
I think the influence is bigger on low impedance IEMs or very low impedance headphones since this lowers the DF significantly compared to, for instace, a 300Ohm HD6XX.
Overly damped … yeah, I don’t know how that would sound. “Dry”?
I’ll reply to the others later today. Need to work a little now.
Edit:
@Audiophool @ProfFalkin @antdroid and those whom I forgot to mention.
Fist off, I’m sorry if I offended anyone. I’m glad @pennstac has thick skin. 
I don’t want to derail the conversation here since there already seem to be other topics discussing amp-headphone matching issues and technicalities. I can go there if I want to educate myself further or discuss certain claims/observations.
I want to get back to my original question but I’ll clarify further to hopefully prevent some minor frustration from my side. (resulting in snappy responces)
Upgrade/sidegrade the IEMs or the headphones first? And by what?
I specifically asked about headphones or IEMs since at this stage I don’t have the desire to upgrade any other part of the chain. It’s not my goal, at this time, to get the best sound possible. It is to experience what sound differences (including technicalities) I experience when upgrading/changing headphones/IEMs. Specifically when buying a product that is supposed to do certain things, or everything better, than what I have now. (can I hear those differences/ do I agree with what is claimed by others/ what do I like about the differences and what not …)
My goal is not to make the headphones/IEMs I have now sound better/different. At least it is not for now. It can (and I’m almost certain it will) come later in my journey into this hobby.
For now my wish is to experience differences in headphones/IEMs that are in certain ways or all aspects better than my current ones.
I think the easiest way is to first upgrade the IEMs since they are quite low budget.
For those chiming in just now:
Current headphones:
- Superlux HD668B
- Beyerdynamic DT770pro (250Ohm)
- Sennheiser/Drop HD6XX
Current IEMs:
- TinHifi T2plus
Budget for IEMs:
Very interested in Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk but maybe taking a smaller step (and moving some extra budget to the HPs?) is advisable? The Blessing 2 dusk would than be the limit of my budget for IEMs.
Budget for HPs: €500/$500
I think in this case I’m OK with the headroom of the topping. I run it 40dB attenuation. So plenty of room there. From what I can see in the measurements it doesn’t clip at full power (no excessive distortion).
Still, the HD6XX could sound different on a different amp. But that’snot the journey I want to take at this moment in time.
If you want to make smaller step/inversion in IEMs at the moment, I would suggest trying the Moondrop Starfield. It is a great sounding IEM at a very reasonable price and (in my opinion) is a safe step up from the Tin T2+.
(Also, if you find you like or dislike the Starfield, it will give you a bit more experience as to your preferred tuning for IEMs).
1 Like
Yes, the starfield was on my radar. Would you say it outperforms many IEMs in even a higher budget class? Say between $150-$250?
I say it was on my radar since it may not be the step up I’m looking for. On the other hand … it is tuned a bit different and seems to have better technicalities than the Tin T2+.
…I’ll put it back on the list.
Knowing how to make thorough informative decisions is indeed a meritorious objective.
Some people appear to internalise other people’s preferences, values and/or objectives because they have not yet established their own. This is understandable, we do not all have unlimited funds, time or perhaps even the interest (to experiment and hear lots of different gear). Most importantly, some people are unclear what their unique preference is, even after years of experience. It took me years of listening to know what I uniquely like. That may seem like an odd statement, surely you know what you like? No, I genuinely did not. I had a list of things I thought I should like and much doubt about those things I considered enjoyable.
What I like is quite different from several of my audio engineering friends, for example.
A close friend of mine, a respected audio engineer, runs his own boutique tube amp company, he has years of studio and home audio engineering experience. I personally think he is deaf, because the things he likes sound dreadful to me (a slight exaggeration, but you get my point). Another audio engineering friend, also respected in the industry, has worked for several audio companies, same story. Our preferences are just not aligned. In my younger years I tried to align myself with their preferences because I believed they had professional skill, experience and significantly greater insight (not to mention better ears).
None of the above helped me to attain satisfaction – in fact, it misdirected me in myriad different ways. The change came for me after listening to more gear at shows,trading gear, listening to other people’s rigs etc., allowed me to build a map of experience. Eventually, I stopped listening to other people’s opinions and started to trust my own ears. Like several other people here, there are reviewers that I know have similar preferences to me – so I can use that as a basic equipment suggestion guide.
As with anything in life thorough informative decisions comes only with self reflection and experience, you must have been around the block a little, become comfortable with your own preferences and be able to articulate what you value.
4 Likes
My experience with IEMs above the Starfield is very limited, I would suggest checking out https://www.audiodiscourse.com/ for a great selection of IEM reviews apart from those already on here by @antdroid , @Precogvision etc. There is also a review of the Starfield by @Resolve .
Personally while I love the Starfield, if I was contemplating spending $250, I would go slightly higher and get the B2 or B2 Dusk.
Just to be clear, I have not yet heard the B2 or B2D, I keep wanting to click buy but can’t decide whether to Dusk or not.
2 Likes
Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.
Yep, I’ve been watching YT reviews from @Resolve (and @Precogvision ) these last days. Very informative stuff!
I also went trough the ranking made by @crinacle on his website.
I’ll continue reading through the reviews on the site here.
Understood. I empathise entirely with your frustration.
I think the challenge is that best and better are not standardised objective terms. You need to qualify what best and better might mean to you. For me personally, my better was that I felt something was missing, music wasn’t as enjoyable through headphones compared to my tube-based 2 channel hifi. That gave me a very clear place to start - I made a list of all the things I did and didn’t like on my headphone setup and all the things I did and didn’t like about my 2ch setup. Once i noted it down, to my surprise, I realised that my headphone rig had signficantly better pace/timing and I like that a lot, great … so what am I missing? It was a process of deduction.
There certainly would be people here that will not like the output of your casette walkman, just like there are people here that don’t like ZMF Aeolus (unthinkable?). The point is, eventually, that won’t matter to you. Because you had (or still have) a preference for that presentation. Someone might indicate it is not very accurate, highly-coloured, has poor detail retrieval and that won’t matter because it is your preference. That is an entirely different disposition from ignorance e.g. my Beats headphones sound the same as a ZMF Vérité vs. I prefer Beats because I very much enjoy the presentation. Personal preference isn’t objective truth but it should not be discounted as inferior [to objective truth] in our subjective pursuit toward personal enjoyment.
It may well be helpful to ascertain, in a clearer way, the aspects of the walkman that you liked. Perhaps you can pick one up cheaply and compare with a modern DAP etc. Also, what we remember fondly, with the passing of time, the aging of our ears and the preferences we now hold, when reencountered isn’t at all as we remember it.
3 Likes
I also have a full ranking list of 165+ iems here: Antdroid IEM Ranking List along with links to each of mine or one of the other authors on my blog’s review if you want additional sources of confusion.
For under $500, my personal favorites are the Blessing 2 series, Etymotic series, Thieaudio Legacy 4, Dunu SA6 (when on sale), and I’d really like to try the Sony IER-M7 someday as that is now at $500 USD.
9 Likes
Thanks for the link. I’ve been reading your reviews for over an hour now.
Blessing 2 Dusk is on top of the list, closely followed bij the ThieAudio L4. I’m a bit scared of the fit on the Etymotics. So deep!
Oh, I can use my IEMs on the go now. Just received my iBasso DC03. That thing works surprisingly well! 
All the more reason to go for an IEM update. Will test the DC03 with the HD6XX and DT770pro tomorrow.
1 Like
my current favorite IEM to use on the go is… The Galaxy Buds Pro.
6 Likes