Hi! I would appreciate it if you could find some time to make a profile for the ThieAudio Hype 4.
I’m currently experimenting with EQ-ing them myself and I haven’t exhausted all the options I have in mind yet. So there’s really no need for haste. And the main thing I have issues with is the treble, so it’s not like you could solve that for me in spite of all the expertise and know-how anyway.
By the way, I see you’ve been experimenting with B&K 5128 derived targets lately (peeking into your EQ web tool at github). Namely with regards to preference adjustments like overall tilt, bass and treble shelves (with the latter being dropped altogether in the latest iteration), 3 kHz correction. Have there been any new insights on the matter?
Hey listen_r, I have a slightly out-of-left-field request if you’re prepared to indulge it. In the youtube comments on the ‘Most Technical Headphones?’ livestream, you said:
I can tune a headphone that is a much worse starting point than AKG K240 to sound essentially the same or even better than an HD 600, just takes a bit of time.
I’m intrigued by the idea of whether you could successfully EQ one headphone to sound like another. I don’t have an AKG K240 or an HD600, but I am wondering if you could create create EQ profiles for:
an Arya Stealth to sound like a Susvara
an OG Clear to sound like a Utopia (new or old, whichever has better data)
an HD800S to sound like an HD6XX or 650.
For the former 2 I’m interested in whether the result would yield a more ‘detailed’ experience and effectively turn the more affordable high end headphones into the flagships. For the latter I own both headphones so could do my own side by side comparisons and test for myself how close the result actually gets (and particularly see whether the ‘timbre king’ could be mimicked by the ‘soundstage king’ with EQ). What do you think?
Don’t forget trying to make a STAX SR-9000 sound like a KOSS Porta-Pro. I posit that it’s easier to make much better sound much worse, but you won’t be able to destroy detail and soundstage enough. However, I’m also certain that it’s impossible to make most expensive headphones FEEL as comfortable as the Porta-Pro.
listen_r is claiming that he can tune an AKG K240 to sound the same as an HD 600 on his head. That is not equivalent to creating a preset that would make it sound the same for everyone. A preset can’t account for individual HpTF.
Per my experience in comparing stuff from the same brands across price tiers:
You can NEVER replicate the materials or build processes of a higher-tier product. Dynamic drivers have a reputation for sounding like the material used for the cone (e.g., paper, plastic, metal). In jumping up from Clear to Utopia, Focal uses Beryllium metal, and it’s not on the cheaper products. Similarly, Hifiman apparently uses different mesh/coatings as they move up in price.
Some say soundstage is a function of the driver/cup size. So, going from a tiny Meze up to a huge HD800 cup involves different air space, different amounts of air compression, and different movement delays and timings. There is no getting around air resistance and the physics of sound transmission.
Timbre and tone are indeed affected by EQ, so tweaking EQ values until the response curve matches another product is partially effective in making any product sound a bit more like another. Beyond that, you are hearing the inherent materials and physics limitations of bullets #1 and #2.
Quality control: some cheaper headphones apparently use cheap magnets and coils. These may not be matched or ever checked for performance. They can generate atrocious treble artifacts and weaker bass. “Bright” on a flagship product becomes “piercing” and noisy on an entry-level product. Grado, Beyerdynamic, and Koss I mean you.
Obviously this is true, but I’m not asking to replicate the experience of these headphones on listen_r’s head. If the EQ target is developed using the headphones’ FR as the target, then it should in theory provide a (potentially somewhat rough) approximation of what they would sound like on my own head. The situation might be different if the EQ was developed by ear rather than using measurement data. I also totally recognise there are limitations, and to be clear I’m not at all expecting a perfect result.
It’s really interesting to see this comment, particularly point 1, which could be characterised as driver story. I’m limited by my phone right now but I’ll reply in more detail later - the context for listen_r’s comment on YT was in a discussion essentially aimed at dispelling the idea of drivers/headphones having inherent properties that govern the sound. But obviously it is also true that there are physical attributes of the headphones as the acoustic system that generates the sound that could not be replicated by EQ. I’m interested in what’s possible and what the limitations are with this.
Then that’s easy. Upload the FR of the target headphone as your target to Squiglink, upload the FR of the source headphone and EQ it to the target. Make sure both FR measurements are from the same rig and you’ll get as close as you can without tuning by ear. In fact, even if you did tune by ear this would be a good starting point.
Preamp: -1.5 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 4.0 dB Q 0.400
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain -1.8 dB Q 0.707
Filter 3: ON LSC Fc 200 Hz Gain -2.2 dB Q 1.800
Filter 4: ON LSC Fc 535 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 1.200
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1020 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 2.400
Filter 6: ON HSC Fc 2500 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 0.420
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 3100 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 2.000
Filter 8: ON HSC Fc 4650 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 3.000
Filter 9: ON HSC Fc 6500 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 1.800
Adjust band 2 for overall bass
Adjust band 6 for overall treble
Preamp: -5.4 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 9.0 dB Q 0.300
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 220 Hz Gain -1.4 dB Q 1.200
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 750 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 2.000
Filter 4: ON LSC Fc 1900 Hz Gain -3.6 dB Q 1.300
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3200 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 4850 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 5.000
Filter 7: ON HSC Fc 9450 Hz Gain -3.6 dB Q 2.000
No adjustment bands because of ADI-2 restriction, but you can probably guess what i’d say if you were loading this into APO—throw Harman shelves like in the prior presets on there and adjust bass and treble to taste.
Hey that’s pretty good! It sounds a lot like my previous EQ but with a more pronounced reduction in mids.
I had to modify it a bit because ADI-2 restrictions (it only lets the high and low shelves have a Q value between [0.5,1.5] for some reason, and to have a low shelf in the mids I need to use band 1 as a shelf alongside a bass shelf), so I’m using this:
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 30 Hz Gain 9.0 dB Q 0.600
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 220 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 1.200
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 750 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 4: ON LSC Fc 1900 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 1.300
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3200 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 4900 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 5.000
Filter 7: ON HSC Fc 9400 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 1.5
Unsure how good of an approximation it is in the bass and treble. That being said, at 2k-9k the FR structure fits my fine grain HRTF extremely well so this works well for me.
Incorporating the further 220 reduction to my original EQ makes the vocal clarity noticeably better, and I might try and lower the Q value in my original EQ around the treble to see what a further elevation sounds like. Although with this EQ, I’m getting a very slight sense of sibilance in some songs.
This was great though, appreciate the time and effort you put into this. Thanks!
No problem. Feel free to throw this measurement into my site with whatever tilt you want (just make sure you use Flat as the target) and play around with it.
Preamp: -6.6 dB
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 70 Hz Gain 7.5 dB Q 0.450
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 170 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 0.600
Filter 3: ON HSC Fc 925 Hz Gain -2.8 dB Q 1.200
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 1950 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 3.000
Filter 5: ON HSC Fc 2000 Hz Gain 2.7 dB Q 0.800
Filter 6: ON HSC Fc 5500 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 2.000
Filter 7: OFF LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 0.0 dB Q 0.707
Filter 8: OFF HSC Fc 2500 Hz Gain 0.0 dB Q 0.420
Adjust band 4 for shout/intensity
Adjust band 7 for overall bass level
Adjust band 8 for overall treble level
Preamp: -8.7 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 40 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 1.000
Filter 2: ON LSC Fc 100 Hz Gain 10.0 dB Q 0.500
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 150 Hz Gain -4.3 dB Q 0.500
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 633 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 1.000
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1125 Hz Gain -2.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 1700 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 7: ON HSC Fc 2500 Hz Gain 2.7 dB Q 0.420
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 3250 Hz Gain -0.8 dB Q 5.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 4600 Hz Gain 2.4 dB Q 5.000
Filter 10: ON HSC Fc 4800 Hz Gain -2.7 dB Q 1.400
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain 2.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 8850 Hz Gain -2.5 dB Q 4.000
Filter 13: ON PK Fc 10700 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 4.000
Adjust band 2 for overall bass
Adjust band 7 for overall treble
Adjust band 9 for muffled character
Adjust band 10 Q for lower treble character
Adjust band 11, 12, and 13 for sibilance control
Preamp: -2.4 dB
Filter 1: ON LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 0.707
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 440 Hz Gain 2.0 dB Q 1.100
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 1250 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 1.000
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 3550 Hz Gain 1.0 dB Q 2.000
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5200 Hz Gain -3.7 dB Q 1.800
Filter 6: ON HSC Fc 10000 Hz Gain -2.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 700 Hz Gain 0.8 dB Q 0.700
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain 1.2 dB Q 2.000
Filter 9: OFF HSC Fc 2500 Hz Gain 0.0 dB Q 0.420
Adjust band 1 for overall bass
Adjust band 2 for midrange fullness/note weight
Adjust band 3 for clack
Adjust band 4 for shout
Adjust band 9 for overall treble
Preamp: -16.0 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain 2.0 dB Q 3.500
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 21 Hz Gain 14.2 dB Q 0.400
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 160 Hz Gain -5.0 dB Q 0.700
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 370 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 2.500
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 1600 Hz Gain 4.4 dB Q 2.500
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 2900 Hz Gain -2.1 dB Q 2.000
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 3500 Hz Gain 4.5 dB Q 5.000
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 4400 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 2.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 5600 Hz Gain 4.6 dB Q 4.600
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain -4.5 dB Q 2.200
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 9700 Hz Gain -3.8 dB Q 3.600
Filter 12: OFF LSC Fc 105 Hz Gain 0.0 dB Q 0.707
Filter 13: OFF HSC Fc 2500 Hz Gain 0.0 dB Q 0.420
Adjust band 12 for overall bass
Adjust band 13 for overall treble
