Hifiman HE-560

Thanks for the nice write-up! The last thing either of my ex-spouses would give were headphones :grin:

Iā€™ve been collecting cans since almost 40 years (not figuratively, this is a real maintained collection of new and near-new items not a mish-mash of old broken headphones), I put so much money in it that 2 years ago I sold my car just to save on fuel, maintenance, parking fees, tags, insurance, etc so I could afford more state-of-the-art cans to display at home. They range in price from $500 (HFM Sundara) to around $8,000 for the HFM Susvara.

Decidedly Hifiman is all over the place and hold an enviable position on the planar market but they should not give similar names to vastly different models: Susvara and Sundara are ridiculously named, itā€™s like naming your children Robbie and Ronnie lol. You only do that with twins and God knows the Susvara and Sundara are no twins. For ma collection I choose phones that have some quality, such as being very old (my oldest are a 1898 set used by telephone operators), having historical value, being representative of their market niche, belonging to a same series (such as the upper-tier models from Focal), being Chinese AND of highly regarded quality, etc. I have well over 100 pairs by now so for the wivesā€¦ meh.

I have the HE560. The reason is that they were the best phones under $1,000, bar none, and they held that rank until the arrival of the Sundara, which sounds marginally better but most of all is extremely handsome. Having unusually attractive styling is also a criteria and unfortunately for the HE560 the public prefers the more stately, expensive-looking Sundara to the hip HE560. I have the Sundara but it is not part of my collection, because I listen to it almost every day. Same thing goes for my Focal Elear and Clear, thatā€™s my daily driver trio. The HE560 has been integrated in the collection.

My goal for this year is to acquire every member of the upper-tier Focal family (Elegia, Elex, Elear, Clear, Stellia and Utopia) I already have the Utopia, Elear and Clear. Buying the Elegia next week, Elex in July, Stellia as a Christmas gift to myself. Canā€™t wait. Donā€™t go thinking Iā€™m a millionaire, I can afford these cans because I got rid of my car as I said above. I live in a city of 4 million, thereā€™s plenty of options for transportation, no real use for a car. Instead I buy headphones, amps, DACā€™s and vintage receivers that I restore to near-mint condition as a hobby. I still cherish the HE560, itā€™s less dynamic but softer than the Sundara. Youā€™d be surprised at how many so-called flagships sound bad no matter what and how you feed them. There are good reasons why I donā€™t listen to the Utopia. Itā€™s extremely detailed but sounds thin and lacks bass. That may sound like the Senn HD800 but itā€™s not as finicky on sources.

You may wonder what a $8,000 can sounds like well, Iā€™d describe the Susvara as ethereal and very suited for chamber music and minimalist folk but for rock eesh, itā€™s godawful painful. the cutoff between the bass and the low mids is too steep, leaves a gaping hole thatā€™s filled with fluff.

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Be careful in your goals. Rad-O has beautiful custom colors, and ZMF knows that wood variation is infinite.

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Thanks for the pointers, I still donā€™t have set next yearā€™s goal so that may be worth considering :slight_smile:
The way I work is this: if I purchase a headphone thatā€™s part of a series (such as the Focals or Audeze LCDā€™s I focus on acquiring the whole series before I move on. This year is a serial year so maybe next year Iā€™ll do solos and customs.

I will say as an original HE-560 v1 owner, one best thing getting Rosson Audio RAD-0, it is a great headphone.

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It certainly is a great phone but nowadays cans appear to have a short life expectancy and having models that could potentially compete with each other (HE560 v1 vs Sundara) is not Hifimanā€™s definition of a healthy market, they seemed like they were in a hurry to produce a better, yet cheaper, model. This seemingly unatainable goal of producing an audiophile-grade can that would be built exactly the same way as the $2,800 HE6se, only the Sundara would have a single-sided magnet compared with two for the HE6se. This turned out to be dealmaker for the Sundara, everybody into high-end cans knew the HE6se has serious issues while the Sundara, using the same build and look, has only very minor issues. at $500 itā€™s a no-brainer, as thousands were flying off the shelves including those that belong to yours truly. With older models like our HE560ā€™s it can -and has for other models- come to a point where the older model has to be either discontinued or discounted because the 560ā€™s value does not measure up to the Sundara. How Dr Bian pulled that one off ($500 for audiophile-grade design), he hasnā€™t said)

Sundara was a special project with the ambitious goal of having it replace the 400 and 500 series at once. I read on another forum (yeah THAT one) that the original name for the Sundara was HE850 so that a least we know its place in the HFM hierarchy. They changed the name before sending to market this entry-level high-end product: they made it to look and feel high-end as well, itā€™s almost a clone of the HE6se in build quality (letā€™s admit that the headband structure of the 400ā€™ and 500ā€™s was in serious need of attention and the plastic forksā€¦ meh, but it doesnā€™t remove its sonic qualities, itā€™s just that damn plastic.

I suspect there is plastic as well underneath the faux wood finish (but Iā€™m not peeling off no finish from my HE560ā€™s, theyā€™re part of my mostly-display collection and even I feel vaguely guilty when I dare use one of thoseā€¦ not often because I stick with only three daily drivers: HFM Sundara, tuned Focal Elear and Focal Clear though I admit that ever since I purchased Reference 4 Headphone Edition and True-Fi (I use these programs on two different computers) and True-Fi is very affordable so why not get it to supplement my 1-computer license for the Reference 4. True-Fi is good for three, go figure. True-Fi is less than $100 for a lifetime license.

True-Fi is what I use for the Elear and now I almost exclusively use those because the resulting sound is better than the Clear, especially in the lower registers while the Elear excels at it, it sounds completely different than it used to, itā€™s like they True-Fi infuses $1,000 worth of SQ. Elears do a wonderful job of rendering very low tones, such as those produced by large pipe organ. Never seen anything that good with deep, clean, punchy bass. But the upper mids and highs were originally too recessed for my taste so after playing with it for a few months I got a little fatigued and I purchased the Clear and it was, well, clear. Clear like in planar clean, which doesnā€™t yield that much bass to speak of. Another dud or so I thought then. Thatā€™s when I got the Sundara which is a very neutral, well-behaved can.

But still it was frustrating, I was getting irked at Focal to which I had already thrown plenty cash as it was (I have the Utopia and the Elegia as well, looking forward to acquire the Elex and the Stellia in the coming months and then the ā€œFocalā€ section of the collection will be complete), when would they make a model that sounds as high-end as I know that this company is (have you seen their megabuck 5-digit speakers, they are among the very best) and that, covering the whole presence frequencies.

Well I found I could ā€œmakeā€ my own ideal Focal model simply by pairing the Elears with True-Fi on my main computer which has a massive 1400-watt PSU for feeding the usb port to to which my DAC V1 is attached and from which I send the signal to a deceptively modest Pioneer S-650 (modest? it weighs 30lbsā€¦ lol) that I had restored to near-mint myself using a kit (been doing that for 20+years now). That receiver is wired such that voltage swing is way more than enough to drive phones up to 250 ohms.
My DAC V1ā€™s own headphone amp is not bad but itā€™s a finicky Class A roaster, picky too. On many HP the vintage receivers (I also use a jumbo SX-1250) sound better than all save those at the high-end of the spectrum. Thatā€™s why itā€™s a good precaution to chose a DAC with USB connectivity, because S/PDIF often conveys background electronic noise from the computer. And besides, not all computers have those, but USB they all do. I am referring to desktop computers in this post, laptops are better suited to other solutions, such as the Dragonfly line of USB DACā€™s.

Today some may frown at the name ā€œPioneerā€ unless it has ā€œEliteā€ written on it, but back in the 70ā€™s Pioneer produced myriad high-quality units that could rival even Macs of the day. The 50 series is Pioneerā€™s best known line of products, and for damn good reasons. The series came out in 1977 with a stunningly different styling than other marques: the famous Silverface treatment was born. As for SQ modern Pioneers can have it in their wildest dreams. Isnā€™t she lovely? Not mine, but its identical twin.

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Yep, nothing wrong with Pioneer back in the day. I have retired my Sansui AU-919, in cleaned up pristine condition, but keep it in case something happens to my Wyred4Sound amp.

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In my experience and unless you find a HP that is perfectly matched to the amp driving it, EQ is nothing to sneer at. Headphones practically beg for EQ with their contortions of dips and peaks.

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Back 'em up or kiss goodbye, the whole bunch of 'em. Like my grandfather, a stereo shop owner, used to say. When it comes to my vintage receivers I have two of each, ya never know. I was lucky enough to procure a sound stock of Pioneer and Harman Kardon units before the prices rocketed up. Only one missing its twin is my beloved legendary Pioneer SX-1010. Hard to get a hold of high-quality original or near-original components for it because demand for restored 1010ā€™s is out of this world. Although not being a Silverface itself, itā€™s the grandpa of the SX-x50ā€™s. A wonderful marvel to look at and the SQ, man the SQ is simply alien. Ah those were the days, units all built in Japan using japanese or US parts.

Restored Pioneers are a hot item, easy to flip and brings in healthy income supplement to this retired bloke. Harman are not as easy to come by and many would-be restorers avoid them due to the wildest cabling jobs I have ever encountered, in sharp contrast with the efficient no-nonsense Pioneer favoured. Also, they donā€™t look like much, I cannot help but imagine Harman Kardonā€™s CEO of the day like some couch potato dandy who enjoyed making things messy and yet sound pretty awesome. They were the Rotel of the 70ā€™s one could say. Not that Rotel is messy, but they are undervalued.

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Back in the day, though, I was a Dynaco boy. My favorite setup, which I had for a long time was Dynaco PAS-3x preamp and a pair of Mark III amplifiers, driving the Rectilinear III speakers I still use. Had an AR turntable, and I think the tuner was a Fisher.

I work in the GPU business, which has a 12-18 month refresh, which has Architecture life of 24- 48 months.

Hiffman is simular in leverages an underlying architecture across the line of headphones. HE-560 v1 came out in 2015; remember the early one did not have wood veneer it was a solid teak rim with screw-on connectors. They wanted a more refined look at the time since they were competing with Audueze LCD-2. One thing I like about it at the time; it had a unique sound signature over Auduze LCD2. For the world of disposable gear, The 6-year-old HE-560 headset is in great shape and still sounds very good.

As you point out, it also needed more power back then and was harder to drive then LCD-2

I have come to see headphones like flavors of Ice Cream. They all have a different sound signature. Some like in the Hifiman line will be building off legacy of HE-560 and HE-400, each with there subtle differences due to material changes in the driver to make for improved flavor like Sundara.

What I was trying to say in my original comment RAD-0 would be a natural transition from HE-560 since its signature gives you the bass and treble of the of HE-560 but brings the mids back, but again this is my preference. I have the Hifiman Ananda, which is another excellent headphone, but I prefer the RAD-0 for detail, dynamics, and overall tonality.

Each of us is different in what we like. I hope you find that flavor or Flavors of Ice Cream (Headphone(s)) that soothes your palate.

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Dynacos had a very ā€œindustrialā€ look that made them look muscular. I like them but never had the chance to restore any since they are hard to come by on the vintage market. The few that I came across online were high-balled. Hafler is related to them in some way I believe.

I think what made HiFiMan the largest planar purveyor is that they seem to be able to pop out a model to pit against similar offerings from any competitor at half the price for same overall quality products

Oh my yes, it can hold its own against many present-day models. From the looks of it it appears that HFMā€™s only ā€œdisposableā€ cans are/were the 400 series. 500ā€™s have an above-average life expectancy but moving up from there many models are now built like tanks and made to last as long as there will be a demand for them. A perfect example is the Sundara, you handle them and they feel unusually sturdy with their all-metal bodies. HFM thought that project over and over. The idea was to be able to produce such a large number of cans that they could undersell anyone. The gamble paid off, reviewers and audiophiles were very impressed and it yielded the best-selling planar ever made or so I read about. I have two pairs myself, one for my collection and one of a trio of daily drivers. The other two are Focal Elear and Clear and even though the Clear sounds a little better itā€™s not by much and I can see someone preferring the Sundara for its more forward presence and BASS godammit the Clears are so timid down there it used to drive me nuts. Makes you wonder why a company that makes one of the best bass-bearing phone, the Elear, canā€™t add some muster below on another model that uses basically the same drivers. Vent over.

It still needs a lot of power :grin: but nowhere near what the higher-end HE6se requires. That model has a design flaw in its magnetic sandwich. In comparison the $500 Sundara which looks almost like a perfect clone of the $1,800 HE6se, has no design flaws, has only one magnet so requires little power and sounds neat once broken-in.

Indeed. The Sundara inherits many benefits from models both below it and above it (styling). It is only called mid-fi due to its price. Otherwise itā€™s an entry-level high-end.

To each their own as we say, Iā€™m a Focal person myself but nonetheless the most valuable headphones in my collection are from Hifiman: Susvara. But either I donā€™t have the proper amp or itā€™s something else they donā€™t sound astonishingly good to me, but their styling is to die for.

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I have one Focal Elex in my collection, which is a very nice headphone. I can understand the desire for them, on Classic Rock they are fantastic.

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Sighā€¦HiFiManā€™s lack of durability strikes again. The left driver in my HE-560s died. They worked great for 18 months.

Sorry man. Still, thatā€™s like 70 in Sennheiser years, so you got a good run out of them. IIUC often the Hifiman failures are just a poor solder at the jack, so if youā€™re handy with a soldering iron you could try popping it open and seeing if a quick resolder does the trick.

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Yes, I do understand that. Even dog years are 5x longer. Iā€™ll likely buy another brand next time.

I started to disassemble them to inspect the jack and popped off the ear cushions. Both drivers have a zillion deep and irregular cracks ā€“ this may be wear/flex from use:

For comparison, hereā€™s the factory photo (assuming they were new):

Iā€™m not sure if Iā€™ll keep poking around with such a sketchy item, or just cut my losses. Those cracks do not inspire confidence.

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Wow, it looks like the cracks are in the traces, like maybe theyā€™re delaminating or something. Not impressive.

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As a side note, when I bought the Hifiman HE4XX, drop offered a 3 year extended warranty. I normally avoid those like the plague, but in this case I snapped it right up! I hope for their sake that they sorted out the QC on theseā€¦

Yeah, they are either physically de-laminating from flex and/or the electrical current caused the metal to drift and accumulate. In either case this suggests that break-in is a real thing, and it probably explains some of the driver failures.

As of now Iā€™m not going to spend any more effort on these.

You just wrote the new HiFiMan slogan: ā€œNot Impressiveā€

Fingers crossed.

Iā€™ll give the HiFiMan brand a rest for now, and try something else.

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FWIW my HE560 drivers look like its between yours and the stock photo but mine are from 2014, when they first came out and the fine cloth screen covering it denser so its much harder to see the surface of the driver. The stock photo looks like it has a SMC jack so Iā€™m thinking that their probably was a bit of revisions with the various generations of the HE560

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