Just moved your post here. Yeah it’s pretty crazy how good the Sundara is compared to the competition. I even think the original one I reviewed was great value already. To me it’s the most straightforward upgrade over other mid-fi stuff like the HD6XX or 58X - the introductory headphones that everyone seems to get their feet wet with haha. I agree about the Clear being better though as well.
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@Resolve yup, bur I’ll still say the Sundara remainsl one of the top five phones under 1$,000. For a $350 phone that’s quite a feat but let’s keep in mind that if that same phones were manufactured here or in Europe, $1,000 receipt would likely be tucked in the box. at $350 they are ridiculously well built, exquisite aesthetics and all. When you first see them you think "that’s something to behold but surely at that price they they must sound only so-so) I don’t know other peoples’ conception of “so-so” but whatever it is it won’t apply here.
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Hi all, I’m new to the forum and have been reading this thread with a lot of interest. I just got my hands on a loaned Sundara - I believe it’s the latest revision, from what I’ve seen from The Headphone Show/Resolve/Andrew’s review (the show that convinced me to try out the Sundaras - the channel is excellent btw, congratulations). I’ve come from a DT880 250ohm and these are my first planars and they sound fantastic, albeit unusual to my ears that have only ever listened to dynamic driver phones.
I just watched Andrew/Resolve/Headphone Show’s review of the ZMF Pendant tube amp pairing with the Verité and really enjoyed it. I’ve been wondering how Sundara’s sound on a quality tube amp like the ZMF Pendant. Maybe anyone who’s tried pairing them could chime in on this question? I’ve listened to them with a cheap Bravo Audio V2 amp with the no-name stock tube in it but my ears aren’t attuned enough to really judge it, although I can say it doesn’t sound as clean or attractive as when I listen to it directly through the ifi zen dac/amp.
Anyway any thoughts or experience would be great. I have heard from others that planars don’t sound good on tubes, for reasons that have to do with their physical configuration, but you never know if concrete exceptions -perhaps the Sundara’s - exist.
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Just wanted to post my Sundara measurements here:
This is just vs the Harman Hybrid for now. I may add others to this so you can see how it looks with different target curves. So just in case there was any concern about bass roll-off and upper midrange shout, if you end up getting one that measures like this, you should be happy. The bass only really drops off below 30hz, which gets close to the limits of human hearing. This is nearly a perfect FR to my ear - or at least the general balance is excellent. Keep in mind these are small intervals (1 line = 1dB), so the slight deviations you see here aren’t all that noticeable.
One thing to note, I found that the left side measurement looks a bit less emphasized around 4-5khz than the right side. But I think that’s to do with the slight differences in fit between left and right pinna, because when I switched it around onto the right side of the cup it also didn’t show the 4-5khz bump. I’ll do some more investigating to make sure this is a repeatable thing and update the measurements if I find anything to indicate otherwise.
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These headphones are great bang for the buck and have a really nice, open sound. I found a great deal on an open box pair, but due to logistical problems, I ended up getting a new pair.
These were my third pair of planars, which I had pretty much given up on. I started with PM3’s and found them boring. Then got the HE4XX’s and hated them. I went in fearing strike three, but I Really like these. Nice clear, open sound and good bass. Not as much bass as I had expected, based on reading, but more than enough for me.
I may climb the tree looking for better models, but these are very satisfying.
They are my hardest to drive headphones but my amps have no problem driving them. Although they don’t sound great out of my tube amp.
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I actually didn’t like it as much on the pendant, or other tube amps for some reason. But other planars seemed to do okay.
Thanks, I had hoped it was to the contrary.
I think there’s no avoiding the reality that you need more than one headphone if you want to embrace different genres and different sounds, unless I suppose we get into the super hi end stuff, which I won’t. It does make things more fun and more interesting though.
If the idea of the once-and-for-all-solution was actually possible it would mean a reduction of the entire musical landscape into the particular horizon of one engineering project. And that would really suck.
If anything I guess the inability of any headphone or headphone type (planar, dynamic driver, electrostatic) to capture all the richness of the musical universe is a win for music and musicphiles.
Anyway, whatever, I’ve been grappling with the frustration of upgrading dacs and amps and finding that they don’t pair proportionately to their price - not with the (or just my?) Sundaras anyway.
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Does anyone know where you can buy the new sundara pads?
Just curious, have you compared it to oratory1990’s measurements?
I see a fairly significant difference above 1K. I wonder if he measured the older Sundara revision (measurements dated Dec 2019), this is unit variation, or measurement variation (same coupler, different pinna?).
I believe we used the same rig and pinna (although I’m not sure he uses the RA402). My guess is this was an older revision? I have a hunch about this, because I know at least one other reviewer who recently got a unit directly from China and it was the ‘old’ revision with the slight bass roll-off and the midrange bump (at least that’s how it looked on the EARS rig, and the two units I had received previously from China were also like that). So there may be some review units being sent out that aren’t the latest revision. I’m not 100% sure this is the case, but so far it seems like the units that were received through dealers are like the one I measured and reviewed here.
Thanks for sharing the measurements @Resolve. Had my Sundara measured liked that there’s no way I would have sent it back (about a year and a half ago); mine was certainly an original revision, as it sounded more like what Tyll’s or even Oratory’s Sundara measured. Now I know what you like it so much! 
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Hello, I’m new to this forum and new to the Sundara, though I’ve been a headphone audiophile for a few decades now. I wanted to thank @Resolve or the fantastic review on the Sundara, which led to my purchasing them. @metal571 was instrumental in my choice as well. Chrono’s comment about the crinkle was interesting to me because I believe I am hearing it in the left cup of my unit, but it’s only a slight, soft crinkle that is audible when I pull the cup slightly away from my ear after a seal has already been established. It will also sometimes be audible when adjusting the left ear cup on my head while wearing the headphones. I don’t hear any crinkle when playing music either, even a song with a lot of low frequency information. Currently listening to Massive Attack with no issues. It’s barely louder than the friction sound of the pads against my head.
This isn’t an issue is it? It doesn’t seem like it is based on what I’ve read here but I wanted to make sure.
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I posted this on the headphone subreddit and wanted to post it here to formally introduce myself to the community. Not sure if this is in the right sub forum but none of the others seemed to fit.
I’ve been around this hobby for most of my adult life since the late 90s and have dealt with QC and build quality issues with a lot of headphones. I’ve never really documented my journey before so bear with me.
TL;DR: Tried a lot of headphones, now using Sundaras and love them. This community is great.
Grado: My First Stop
My very first pair of good headphones, the Grado SR-60 (non e version), was my first foray into the audiophile world. I remember as a teenager in late 90s that I wanted headphones that had MOAR BASS. I knew that there had to be better alternatives than what I could get at the drugstore so I turned to the internet and found Headroom and became interested in the SR-60 as it was a recommended budget choice at the time. The sound was a revelation to my uneducated ears, and I’ll never forget when a Head Fi member told me to turn off the bass boost on my Aiwa portable CD player to listen to music. What?? But what about MOAR BASS POWAH? I turned it off for about a week and got acclimated to a more flat bass presentation and realized what I had been subjecting myself to for most of my teenage life. No disrespect to those that employ a bass boost or some kind of EQ in their current setups, but it was then that I decided that I didn’t really want to mess with it in my listening. HOWEVER, I will say that in recent years I have slowly come around on the idea of it. Maybe I’ll give it a shot one of these days.
Now for the not so good: over time the deficiencies in build quality reared their ugly head. The SR-60 had a cheap leather headband that ripped from daily use and cheap foam pads that basically disintegrated over time as well.
Etys: A Rush of Sound to the Head
I eventually moved up to a pair of Etymotic ER-4P’s that I was VERY happy with soundwise. I had an Altoids amp built by JMT from Head Fi which served as my first amp. I was over the moon with this setup, until the cable started to split open at the strain relief, again from nothing more than daily use. After having them sit unused in a drawer for a few years, I pulled them out and sent them to Etymotic who replaced the cable with the new and improved braided cable that they switched to some years back which supposedly had much better durability. After some time one of the earpieces started cutting out and now that side no longer plays any sound. Over the years I’ve been tempted to jump back into the Ety word with the new ER models they’ve put out which look great, but my past experiences always gave me pause. Would love some input from those here that currently use the new models.
Beyers and Tubes: So Warm My Man
After a while I became curious about tubes so I got a cheap Earmax clone OTL amp and some Beyerdynamic DT 880 600 ohm editions. Now, apparently Beyerdynamic had a great rep for build quality and they were definitely solid feeling headphones. I loved the bass presentation that the combo gave me, and the warm, inviting sound of the tube amp helped tame the prevalent treble that the 880s are known for, so much so that I didn’t even know people found it to be an issue until I read more about it on forums years later. For a time the combination was great. UNTIL…the left driver or driver connection malfunctioned and no longer played any sound. Hooray.
Temporary Leave: Getting some HIFIMANs On My Way Out
I moved on to some other headphones and gear after that (Q701, K712, Magni 1/Modi 1 stack), but at that point my interest in the hobby was waning and I just wanted some simple set it and forget it IEMs to listen to music on my bus commute to work. So despite the warnings about quality, I ended up with some Hifiman RE-400s that I still own to this day. And you know what? They’ve been absolutely bulletproof for me. I’ve worn those guys to sleep and rolled over on them, bending the strain relief in the process. I’ve worn them outside in the sweltering Texas heat exposing them to plenty of sweat and they just keep working. Additionally, I ended up upgrading to the RE-600s and experienced absolutely no issues with those either. Very rock solid. These were my first exposure to the HIFIMAN house sound and I’ve found it to be a great personal reference for me. Speaking of reference…
As If We Never Left: The most Reference-y Reference sound that ever Referenced
Late last year I realized that my preferred sound signature is something as close to “neutral” as possible. I wanted to hear the music reproduced as closely as possible to what the artists and engineers in the studio intended people to hear. So then I got the bug again for some full size cans and picked up the one headphone that should be the entry point for all budding audiophiles but for some reason I had never tried: the HD600. Metal571s review stating that they were THE headphone for reference sound had me running to Amazon to smash the buy now button. I picked up an Atom and a Khadas Tone Board and sat with that setup for some months. I grew accustomed to the presentation and knew eventually that I wanted to experience planars with their fast, detailed transient response and better bass and sub bass extension. Metal571’s Audeze LCD-1 review piqued my interest, and the low(ish) price of the LCD-1s didn’t hurt either.
Zeos said he might prefer to use the LCD-1s on a daily basis over the Sundaras because of the QC and build quality rep of Hifiman. Well guess what? Last week my pair broke. The plastic at the right height adjustment just snapped as I was swiveling the cups to put them down on my desk. So they’ve been sent back to Audeze for replacement.
Which brings me finally to the Sundaras. After the glowing reviews from @Resolve and @metal571 I just couldn’t resist. They sound absolutely phenomenal. I finally know what a decent soundstage is. The presentation is very balanced and detailed. In terms of build quality, they feel much better built than the LCD-1. As for longevity, I’ve only been using them a day or so but so far so good. In fact, to my ears they are so good that I am strongly considering selling off my other headphones (HD600, K712 Pro, and LCD-1 when it gets sent back from Audeze) and keeping the Sundaras as my new baseline reference.
EDIT: Just today I’ve started to hear a minor crinkle from the left ear cup when adjusting the headphone on my head and/or pulling the left cup away from my head. A minor issue but slightly annoying. Here’s hoping it goes away over time or I just stop hearing it.
I only recently discovered this place after browsing the headphones.com website and watching some of @Resolve’s reviews. The vibe around here seems to be very welcoming which I can’t say for some of the other headphone discussion venues online. Thanks for reading and I hope to participate more and more in this community over time.
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I can’t speak for the Sundara but the Audeze LCD2-C was notorious for the crinkle sound. It has to do with air pressure and the diaphragm. It elicited enough comments on forums for Audeze to respond - see here. Note, in particular, this warning:
We recommend exercising certain cautions when handling planar magnetic headphones: trapped air can create high pressure and sudden pressure changes could damage the diaphragms, and this is not covered by warranty. When you put the headphones on or take them off, it’s not a good idea to press them hard and fast against the head, so we recommend slow and steady movement to allow the air pressure to stabilize.
I wonder if this is the same thing with the Sundara? I only experienced it once with my LCD2-C as I put them on very carefully; also, as the pads soften, apparently, it becomes less of an issue (although I can’t say definitively).
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In retrospect I think I’ve heard this a few times with my Oppo PM-3, also planars. I figured it was just the diaphragm making contact where it shouldn’t from the sealed pressure and apparently I was right - for once.
“Doc it hurts when I do this.”
“Then stop doing that.”
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Interesting. I believe the sound I’m hearing is the same crinkle issue. Hopefully as the pads break in the issue subsides, but even right now the sound is fairly faint and only presents itself when I adjust the left ear cup on my head or pull it slightly away from my head. The sound isn’t affected so for now I’ll just continue to use the headphones. Thanks for the info!
Enjoyable read of your journey, thanks for sharing.
Did you have a favorite Grado mod? I used the SR60s with L cushion and tape mod.
Good to hear that the earlier Hifimans have been bulletproof for you.
I personally would keep the HD600 around as a standard reference along with the Sundara.
@Resolve’s reviews also led me here earlier this year, and it’s been awesome.
By the way, what kind of music do you listen to (the Grados, Beyer, and Sundara all “thrive” in the treble region so I’m wondering if there’s a correlation)?
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I know, I should just stop adjusting the headphones so much when they’re on my head, but the OCD part of me can’t help it now that I know it’s there. Like part of me thinks the next time I mess with it the problem will magically disappear.
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I never did get around to modding my SR-60s. I know some did the quarter mod to open up the stock pads among other things but I just left mine alone because I was afraid I would mess them up.
The more I think about it the more I think I’ll sell my other cans but keep the HD600 as another reference. We’ll see how bad my upgrade itch starts acting up. I’m already eyeing the Ananda and to a lesser extent the Arya.
I listen to a wide variety of music, but as of late my tastes have leaned towards indie and alternative rock (Alvvays, War on Drugs, Whitney, Julien Baker, Lucy Dacus, Phoebe Bridgers, TV on the Radio etc), hip hop (ATCQ, The Roots, Common, and certain electronic artists (Aphex Twin, Massive Attack, etc)
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Update: Looks like my streak with Hifiman may be over. The crinkle is starting to get worse and on top of that, there seems to be a channel imbalance with left ear cup now playing slightly softer than the right, causing all stereo imaging to be biased to the right side. I have a replacement on the way that should arrive tomorrow. If nothing else, at least Amazon’s customer service is good.
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