Great writeup @pow-low. You’ve had a very interesting journey upto now and long may it continue. We have a specific thread for welcoming people called New Here? This Is The Spot To Introduce Yourself. Just a heads up anyway. Welcome.
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Ohh ok I see it. Based on what I see I feel like what I posted was too long, but I will post there as well to introduce myself. Thank you!
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No worries. I’m sure you’ll love the forum and fit right in. Great to have you here.
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Sometimes it’s best to leave stock and not risk messing it up.
Keeping the HD600s is a good call. It’s a benchmark reference with an established reputation for durability/longevity also.
Good tunes, Aphex Twin especially, and I could see how your music sounds good on your particular headphones. I hope the Sundara replacement works out. I like the Hifiman sound, but the build quality and longevity is more questionable.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone else notice the weak center image that @metal571 talks about in his Sundara review? When listening to his test track “Letters” by Yosi Horikawa I believe I might observe it as a slight volume drop as the pencil crosses the center of the stereo image left to right but compared to my other cans it’s so minor that I wonder if I’m just convincing myself to hear it based on some type psychological bias. Was curious if anyone else observed it.
Unfortunately, HiFiMan has a spotty reliability record at best. They sound fine while they work, but you are probably hearing a failure in progress. My HE-560s died after 18 months, which was a lot longer than many others lasted with that model! They started out requiring greater and greater volume for the same output, and then one driver suddenly stopped. Upon inspection, both sides had developed deep cracks all over. One crack finally separated or shorted out and left a deep divot.
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Yikes that doesn’t good at all. This is actually the first Hifiman model I’ve owned that has given me any issues. My RE-400a’s and RE-600s v2s have been bulletproof for me since day 1 and those famously had quite a reputation for failing prematurely. I’m hoping the replacement fares much better because I love their sound.
Some advice please. I am new both to headphones and to this forum. I started just a few months ago and I’ve already bought, perhaps rather impulsively, the Hifiman 400s, the Sennheiser 58X Jubilee and the Grado 80e, all of which I like very much. None of these are particularly hard to drive and I’m currently driving them with an iPad and an iPhone 6. At some point in the future my intention is to buy a Sundara, and my question is this: up to now I have not had to use a dac or amplifier but based on my reading I will need such equipment for the Sundara. On the one hand it makes sense for me to buy budget equipment (under, say, $150). That’s because I’m a layman in music plus I’m older and so my hearing is not what it used to be, and I even have a moderate case of tinnitus. On the other hand, perhaps I should get a little better equipment on the possibility that someday I might want to upgrade to a more expensive headphone that would benefit more from a better amplifier. Could someone please make a recommendation for an amplifier (dac?) that would work well with the Sundara and would (1) be budget and also (2) a recommendation for a bit better than budget. The music I primarily listen to are vocals, more women than men, classical, opera and light rock. Thanks.
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$150 is a tough target to hit. You can look for little USB thumb drive sized DACs like the Dragonfly, but I found them to be power limited and rather… Meh. If you can up the budget a smidge, then i would suggest:
Ultra budget - Schiit Fulla 2
Super budget - Schiit Hel -or- Modi/Magni stack
Kinda Budget - Asgard 3 w/ AK4490 Card
(These also work with your iPads)
Why do I almost exclusively suggest the Schiit stuff at this price range? They aren’t cookie cutter implementations of DACs like the chi-fi crap, you can provide additional power beyond a single usb port, they sound good, and they hold their value if you want to sell it some day. Also, 15 day return policy in case you don’t like it.
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Professor Falkin - Thanks for the quick response. When I am ready to purchase the Sundara I’ll check to see which of these are available. Human nature being what it is (or at least my human nature), I’ll probably end up purchasing the most expensive one. Again, thanks.
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Schiit is my top recommendation also. While not having as good sound quality as the Schitt Modi/Magni stack, one option that allows for portability is the iFi Nano Black Label DAC/amp combo. Yesterday, headphone.com had 1 open box for sale at $160, regular price $199.
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I’ll echo @ProfFalkin’s recommendation of the Fulla 2 (NB: Schiit’s now on to the third iteration of it). It’s a nice little versatile DAC/amp unit for under $100:
- it’s plenty powerful for most headphones
- it doesn’t need to be plugged into a power outlet (although it can sound better when not relying on usb power)
- it can even work with some IEMs, if you are very, very, very careful with the volume knob and you don’t have problems with channel imbalance (I can use mine with my Andromeda 2020)
- it’s a decent step up from the DAC in your iDevices, one that would do justice to headphones like the Sundara
- you can use it just as a DAC if you want to connect it to another amp - this is good if you intend to make incremental upgrades as I did: once I had the funds I went from the Fulla 2 to the Fulla 2’s DAC with the CTH amp, and then I upgraded the DAC as well
I got my Fulla 2 not long after getting into the hobby and it was great with my Hifiman HE 400i. That headphone is now long gone but I kept the Fulla 2 because it’s such a convenient little and transportable device and it still comes in handy (plus, again, it only cost $99!)
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If you’re looking for a budget DAC/AMP that sounds great and won’t break the bank I’d take a good look at the Tempotec Sonata HD Pro. It’s a tiny USB-C dongle but its DAC portion measures as well or better than many Desktop DACs and its amp output stage puts out enough juice for a surprising amount of headphones. It more than sufficiently powered my LCD-1s (not too difficult) as well as my Sundaras with most program material. It usually sells for $40 on Amazon. It is essentially an OEM rebrand of the Hidizs S8, which was measured and reviewed on ASR here: Sonata HD Pro ASR thread
You can find it on Amazon here: Sonata HD Pro
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Update: I got my replacement Sundaras in this afternoon and it’s only been a few hours but so far they’re flawless! No crinkle or imbalance, just fantastic, linear, neutral sound. Whatever wonkiness was happening with imaging (and that may have just been in my head) seems to be gone too. No issues with center image noted when listening to Yosi Horikawa’s letters.
Here’s hoping my luck keeps going.
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know how big the drivers are in the Sundara in terms of MM? I don’t see anything on Hifiman’s website or elsewhere online, and I was curious how they compared in size to other planars.
Hello everyone, I’m kinda new to this community and I would just like to say its a pleasure to be a part of it. My current setup right now is Sennheiser HD58X Jubilee as my main listening headphone and the source gear I am using to power this headphone is Topping NX4 as I am only using a laptop.
I discovered this dac/amp combo by finding a site called audiosciencereview.com, this site recommended me that it is one of the best under £200 portable dac amp combo at the moment. I think this site is quite useful for finding the specific source you want so in that sense this is a recommendation on my part. I am planning to buy the Sundara in the future since I am seeing so much praise in this headphone. The Sundara may end up being my endgame headphone. Who knows? But overall, have a look at the site and its reviews, its quite in depth. Hope everyone is having a fantastic day and are enjoying their music.
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Glad you’re enjoying it! Yeah I’m still kind of blown away at how good the Sundara is for the price. For many people it probably will be end game because there’s such a big price gap for any meaningful upgrade. With that said, I think there’s some vacancy in the $350-$700 price range that companies could target haha.
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Now I am here for some help, I am interested in purchasing these headphones and even in the review on Utube the gentleman mentions an amplifier.
Now I know most of you are going to dislike this, but my PC has build in dac/amp. My motherboard’s original price is 600. I didn’t pay that, but that’s besides the point.
I’m just coming at I would hope there’s at least a $100 dac amp in there.
So my question is would it work well with it based on the features? The features are Isolated Audio with ESS Dac. 2x Audio Processors. Which handles 384 kHz/32 bit.
The two audio processors are the Realtek ALC 1220A Crystal Sound 3 and ESS E9018 codec. It can handle up to 600 ohm of impedance.
It says separated audio layers for left and right channels and the two processors are EMI shielded.
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Honestly have no clue what any of this means, but maybe able to compare to something I would dish out 200 300 dollars on for new amp and dac like is it worth it, does it have any comparison? Would I not be getting the most out of my headphones. Based on the information provided.
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That information, sadly, does not include anything useful in regards to determining how well the built-in audio output on your motherboard might drive any given headphone. Either the actual motherboard make/model or, better yet, its full audio specification are needed (and motherboard manufacturers almost never quote the useful details).
That said … it sounds like a typical gamer-type board, most of which brag about their audio implementation, use good parts, and then miss the forest for the trees when it comes to their implementation. So you get things. like ESS9018 DAC chips combined with TI LME49720 amplifiers/line-drivers run without buffers. Both excellent parts in their own right, though the LME49720 is poorly suited for low-impedance planar cans without buffers.
Most of the marketing plays off the faulty-but-commonly-held-belief that “high-impedance = difficult to drive”. And if the thing uses an LME49720 (which are quite common in this application), it will indeed have lots of voltage swing for higher-impedance headphones. Sadly, what it won’t have is decent current delivery … which is needed for low-impedance and/or planar cans … like the Sundara (which is both).
Put another way, it’ll probably work, but I’ve never seen a motherboard with a decent output drive capability (current-wise), and the commonly used LME49720 isn’t up to driving the Sundara very well at all. If they’ve got the thing setup for its lowest OI (doubtful without a buffer) they might reach 106 dB/SPL peak before they’re clipping (nasty and highly audible distortion). If not, it’ll be 100 dB best case. Sounds like a lot, but that’s a peak value, so 80 dB is likely the realistic limit.
Adding a basic amplifier, at $99, such as the Schiit Magni 3+ or Heresy, JDS Labs Atom, etc. will take care of that without much problem.
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