iFi Audio - Official Brand Thread

I love my “NiBL” I know you didn’t go with it, but I honestly have a hard time not using it with more things…It honestly is probably my favorite thing under $400 in my Audiophile kit. It is always in my bag next to my camera now… and it will travel with me everywhere.

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I could tell by your traveler’s guide review that you like it. A very capable device that shares a lot with the other MQA iFi DACs. It’s probably the best value for the money. I just wonder about what you really get upscale of our choices.

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I generally like iFi’s stuff.

I’m not very keen on their marketing angle a lot of the time - there seems to be a tendency to claim as benefits somethings that are just due to what they’re doing/what they’re using and is in no way “special” nor unique to their product, brand or implementation.

But, in general, I do like their end-results.

I do think they have too FAR too much overlap in a lot of their products. That’s fine in entry-level stuff. But it can dilute the value proposition for some of their options. If you use all the features of the Micro iDSD Black Label, for example, it’s excellent value. If you just want the DAC portion, it’s a lot less so.

This issue, for me, comes to a head in their flagship products.

The Pro iCAN is an excellent amplifier. You do need to use both tube and solid-state modes, as well as need it’s capacious-power-capabilities to get the most value from it (if you just want solid-state OR tube operation, you can get similar performance for less money), but it’s not totally out of whack if you don’t.

But the Pro iDSD is a confused product to me, which seems like the product of about 3 years too many in “design by committee” (I think it was over four years from initial announcement to first units shipping). Depending on what questions you ask about it, and in what context, you get difference answers about it that either attempt to downplay the cost of the included amplifier, or streamer, and upsell the DAC implementation - or that portray the amp as just a less-powerful version of the Pro iCAN … making that unit unnecessary.

What I wanted from them was a form-factor matching balanced output DAC to pair with the Pro iCAN.

What they shipped was an all-in-one device with built-in streaming (but omitting the single most interesting streaming interface for me), and local media replay, with an unnecessarily elaborate amp stage that is completely redundant if you already have a Pro iCAN (or similar that you’re happy with) - but still not quite good enough to make one unnecessary if you have more demanding cans.

Now, I haven’t done a formal audition (i.e. in my system, with my gear and music) of the Pro iDSD, but nothing I have heard from it in more casual settings makes me think it’s the equal of other well known DACs around, or below it’s $2,499 asking price as a DAC.

If you’re going to use ALL of it’s functionality, well, then it starts to look a LOT more reasonable.

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I’m an iFi fan as well. I think most of their line represents excellent value for the dollars spent. Having said that, I think the xDSD and xCAN probably are the best examples of price/performance gear in the iFi line. The xDSD is kind of a swiss army knife for the travelling music enthusiast and does good work as a computer DAC as well. The xCan right now is the amp to pair with the Opus #1s or #2, the Cayin N5ii as well as the AK70mk2. Pairing the xCAN with those portables gives me the option of using HD600s or Beyer 990s with the portables that normally are uncapable of really opening those up.

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I use the xDSD daily in office but now that I will get the THX 789 AAA end of september, I wonder if I could use the xDSD as balanced DAC with its Line Out over 3,5 TRSS s-balanced
I already have an adapter from male 3.5mm TRRS balanced to 2.5mm balanced female for some iems and my sennheisers
now I have ordered an adapter from 2.5mm balanced to 2x 3PIN XLR
this should work, or not?

I will get the SMSL SU-8 as balanced dac. But I wonder if I could also use the xDSD as mqa capable dac with the 789

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You can certainly use the xDSD as a DAC to feed the THX AAA 789.

You will want to use it’s line-out into the RCA inputs on the THX AAA 789, however. The xDSD is not “balanced” in the traditional sense. It is a single-ended amplifier that has separate ground lines for each channel. iFi called this “S-Balanced”, on account of it using a balanced headphone connection.

When driving headphones directly this has definite benefits and is worth using if you can.

When driving an external amplifier it’s another matter. For a start, you’ll be amplifying the output of the xDSD amplifier, including any noise and distortion (all amplifiers have both). And you won’t get any additional power, since the signal is +/GND not a differential +/-.

In fact, using an S-Balanced connection to a true differential 3-pin XLR input will likely result in you only getting half the available power out of the amplifier, since it will only be driving one phase of each channel with a music signal.

So, again, you’ll be better off using the line-out of the xDSD into the RCA inputs on the THX AAA 789. And you’ll still get the balanced differential output from the THX AAA 789 in doing so.

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thank you so much @Torq /Ian!

that helps me a lot!
I will give it a try with single ended 3.5 to RCA.

Further I have planned to buy the SMSL SU-8 - can get it at Amazon Germany for 210 Euro but after reading the reviews of the Massdrop x Airist Audio R-2R DAC, I am not sure which one to get.

The SMSL SU-8 is the standard balanced DAC often reviewed and well measured.
The R-2R would cost me more than double with taxes and is not balanced.

I´m not into the filters or the remote control only usabilty of the SMSL SU-8
I´m more a fan of “keep it simple” like the R-2R DAC approach.

soundwise I search for transparent devices and let the diffenrent headphones do the soundtuning

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You’re probably going to be better off with the SMSL SU-8. It’s the more transparent of the two units.

I wouldn’t worry about the “balanced” aspect of things. At least unless you’re dealing with long runs of cable or have ground-loop issues. It’s not a bad thing, but people get hung up on it unduly.

I found the SMSL unit to get somewhat fatiguing after a bit. I suspect that’s either due to what I perceive as an exaggerated sense of “detail” or some “tension” in the mids. Not uncommon for me and inexpensive ESS-based designs (even when auditioned blind).

That said, it’s going to outperform the RDAC on a technical level. I just happen to prefer the RDAC for relaxing and listening to music.

As to the “filters” on the SU-8, they’re not what most people assume they are. A lot of DACs let you choose between the different on-chip (i.e. native to the DAC IC) reconstruction filters (e.g. minimum phase slow-roll off, linear-phase fast-roll off etc.). On the SU-8 they’re using the programmable DSP functions on the ESS chipset to let you choose from nine different DSP profiles that vary the amount, and type, of artificial harmonic distortion applied. I didn’t find any of those interesting or preferable (the “Tube” settings sound nothing like tubes) and would just run the thing on “standard”.

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ok that is very helpful. Thank you very much for your time!
Sorry for the bit off topic route this took us in the ifi thread.

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On the SU-8 there are two different settings that can be selected, there are the “PCM Filters” that seem to be the normal options found on other DACs (Fast Linear, Slow Linear, Fast Minimum etc.) and then there are the “Sound” options (Standard, Rich 1 to 3, Tube 1 to 3, Crystal 1 to 3 and Original). I have always kept the latter on “Standard” as I agree that the others do not make a positive difference. For the PCM Filters, I struggle to tell the difference between them to be honest, not just on the SU-8 but on all DACs.

I think it may be interesting to graph the FR of the “Sound” options to see what they did to make them sound worse :wink:

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I ran the thing on “Fast Linear”, which is invariably what I wind up choosing on ESS 9038 based DACs (was certainly the case with the Topping D50 and Pro-Ject Pre-Box S2 Digital).

In fact, in general, given the choice, I’ll go with a linear phase fast-roll off filter regardless of DAC. There have been exceptions for me, but they’re not common. The differences can be quite subtle and usually show up more over extended listening periods than being immediately discernible in quick A/B/X comparisons.

I’d have to borrow the unit again to measure all the different “Sound Color” options. Which given what I’m already behind on is probably not going to happen any time soon.

I have measured the general behavior of the different reconstruction filters on the ESS 9038, both for FR and impulse response, and those are basically the same across implementations (as would be expected):

Anyway, back to iFi stuff …

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I can take mine home and measure it, it won’t match any measurements you have made but it will be enough to give an idea of differences.

Is there an SMSL thread we can maybe move these last “off-topic” posts to?

END OF DERAIL, I PROMISE!

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Hi and welcome @MartinTransporter.

Hi and thank you Paul!

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I would like to say that I’ve been using the micro BL for the past few weeks and it’s so versatile ! It can drive the Hifiman Arya on turbo with authory and be quiet enough for the Campfire Audio Solaris on lowest gain & ultra sensitivity. Been using my Topping D70 as the DAC and only utilizing the black label’s amp. It’s fairly small as well ! Can easily fit in a backpack or something. Thanks everyone for the tips and recommendations

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Definitely an iFi fan as well… probably would be in “fanboy” territory considering the number of their products I own and use (micro-iDSD BL; xDSD, xCAN, pro-iDSD, pro-iCAN). The pro-iDSD is a dream for someone who loves to “fiddle” with various settings and seeing what happens to the sound. They had some new desktop stuff at RMAF that looked interesting from a more entry level DAC/Amp perspective.

I do wish they give a bit more love/attention to the non-high end desktop setup. I think the xDSD is a fine portable dac/amp and the “pro” series are excellent high end but they maybe missing the market for someone looking for a nice desktop amp in the mid range. Something like an updated version of the micro-iCAN SE.

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hi sheldon!

do you stack xDSD + xCAN for some hard to drive hf or do you simply use the micro BL in these occasions?
maybe the ufo shaped new bluetooth dac/amp will be a midrange ifi product - hope it there is a remote or app for it

Oddly enough, I haven’t really used the two together yet. I kinda came into them differently, I got the xCAN to drive some planars from my LG V30 when I travel and works well for that; I later got a good deal on the xDSD and that became more of my go to when traveling as it work great with the iPad Pro (with the USB-C). I may take them both on my next long trip in a couple months to have a “portable stack” and see how that feels. haha.

In talking to the iFi guys, it sounded like it was going to be a sub-$200 part (not knocking that as there’s great stuff under $200) and won’t have the power output, etc that the iCAN SE has (4 watts of power, etc). Also don’t believe it will have balanced nor the s-balanced circuitry. I take it that it was more to compete with things like the entry level JDS Labs, Schiit, type stuff.

oh ok good to know - curious about LDAC support on the new module

is the new xBASSii with the added “presence” feature really worth getting the xCAN in addition to the xDSD? played around with it at munich high end this year - liked it a lot

do you use mqa (Tidal) with the xDSD over the iPad Pro? if so - from what I read, there is no other iOS app than Tidal needed for full mqa unfold with the xDSD. Or did I miss out anything?
will test my wifes iPad Air 2 with the camera connection kit 3, cause my tablets usb port is a bit to loose

at the moment I use the xDSD as standalone DAC/Amp with the Focal Elegia in the office
and
as single ended DAC with THX AAA 789 - have also the SMSL SU-8 balanced connected but prefer the xDSD over it - I am still in the honeymoon period with some new components… hard to A/B for me

but what I know - the ifi xDSD is my center audio unit and swiss army knife

I use both ifi otg cables for USB-C(phone) and Micro USB(tablet) + the original blue usb 3 cable from notebook or pc - do you know any better fiiting OTG cables? the ifi ones are sometimes a bit wonky - tried 3 USB C and got one for free from ifi support :wink:

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Yes, I use Tidal MQA on the iPad Pro through the xDSD with the iFi OTG USB-C cable; it works great. No extra steps, hiccups etc. The only drawback is the OTG cable is too short to use the iPad in any orientation other than laying flat; I’m going to see if I can get someone to make a longer OTG cable.

Curious, what do you like about the xDSD as a DAC over the SU-8?

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