The quality of AAC over SBC is night and day for me. I would rather leave the device home than listen to it if I am limited to SBC. AAC is bested only by LDAC. LDAC Is not available from iPhones.
As to why? Because streaming bluetooth → dap while not at home allows me to leave the dap buried in a pocket under 15 layers (or in a bag) but still have control via the iPhone and/or Watch.
I also expect to do that when at home but having a busy day as streaming from the dap is still functionally difficult to control quickly. Basically, the entire workday is likely BT. Outside of the workday can be streamed or hardwired.
So most of my listening time on any given day, is BT. So, AAC is in, or the dap is out.
I think you’re misunderstanding what that article actually says.
LDAC is only “the best” if it’s operating at its full bit-rate, which requires damn-near ideal circumstances to do reliably (there’s a reason that CODEC has a “connection vs. quality” setting). Some devices never even engage it above it’s 330 kbp/s mode(, at which point it is worse than SBC, never mind AAC or aptX. It’s only in it’s 990 kbp/s mode that it is clearly and consistently better, and more devices than not have trouble maintaining that in less-then-ideal situations (easily and objectively testable).
aptX and its derivatives is a non-perceptual encoder that works, at a high-level, by using fewer bits to encode frequency ranges that are expected** to have less content (or content that is less audible). It’s not a fully adaptive algorithm, so it has consistent weaknesses, as well as a relatively high noise floor/low SNR, and drops off significantly in terms of response starting around 7kHz (all stuff you can find in the specs).
AAC is a fully adaptive, perceptual encoder. It requires much less bandwidth to do its job properly than aptX (which is beaten by high-rate SBC, never mind AAC or LDAC), while still having better overall spectrum coverage and noise/SNR performance. In general, it will sound better, and measure as well or better than aptX. There are situations where aptX will outperform it, but they’re not a given.
*Typically because they don’t work reliably over more than a foot or two at the higher rates, even if you use developer tools to force-enable the higher rate capabilities.
**Unlike perceptual encoders, it is not dynamically re-allocating the entire spectrum; the bit allocation model is much less flexible, where a perceptual encoder and allocated bits with much more flexible as the source material requires.
Hmm. I’m getting the feeling you’re looking for an iPod, Derek.
But seriously, I think I got you wrong. I thought you were looking for a way to use Apple Music on a high-end DAP to enjoy your music in the best possible quality.
Why would you want to stream music from the iPhone to a DAP to Bluetooth earbuds?
Those earbuds WILL sound exactly the same from your iPhone, because the source (phone/DAP) will encode the signal and transmit it using a certain codec/protocol and then send it to your earbuds.
Those and those only determin the quality of reconstruction/digital-analog conversion, not the phone or DAP. The DAC and amp are in the buds. The source is completely irrelevant.
I’m sorry, but maybe I still don’t understand what you are looking for, I’m afraid.
Again, because when mobile, the usability of a dap is non-existent. It now needs a wifi network (which means tethering my phone anyway and dealing all of the annoyance fo that) and still trying to keep the dap accessible to control volume/songs.
It’s much easier in those scenarios to phone BT → dap and take advantage of apple watch control. Since most of my day may correspond to that style usage, it’s a basic requirement to make it usable through out the day.
Believe or not, an iPod touch probably won’t work here. Largely because streaming from iPhone → iPod really isn’t a thing apple thinks you should do. I don’t have one handy, but I have not been able to do it between other iOS devices.
I think the point @Tom_Ato is making is that it doesn’t make any sense to put a DAP between an iPhone and Bluetooth earbuds/headphones. The iPhone can talk to the earbuds/headphones directly and you’d actually be better off doing that.
It’s a different story if the earbuds/phones are not Bluetooth.
But if you go iPhone —(BT)—> DAP —(BT)—> Transducers (BT) … then you’re worse off than just going straight to the transducers from the iPhone, since you’ll have to go through another round of AAC decode/encode, and many DAPS aren’t using the best AAC encoders in the fist place.
All that said, I do not think a device currently exists that will do everything you want as seamlessly as you want. You might get the functionality, but it’ll be janky and suboptimal in usage and execution.
All that said, I do not think a device currently exists that will do everything you want as seamlessly as you want. You might get the functionality, but it’ll be janky and suboptimal in usage and execution.
Sometimes its a good idea to use dedicated devices to do dedicated tasks I might add.
Absolutely, but they still have to be good at those tasks. So far, the btr5 is the only functional mobile solution. And that’s fine.
I was hoping a dap would give me better quality while not sacrificing much.
Also, they do exist. Hiby R6 2020 and iBasso dx300 supposedly both do all these things. How well they do them, I have no idea. The Kann Alpha may also. I have not confirmed AAC on it yet.
You can always order and in the worst case return. Or when lucky test at your local dealer.
But don’t excpect an iPhone-like experience anytime soon.
I personally would love to finally see DAPs having good/very good usability and player apps given more design/development love. But I make do as I have set my priority to best possible sound quality and I get that with the devices I own. Hell, I didn’t even know I could install and use Apple Music on my N6II
But just look at everyday devices that have existed in unchanged (and unusable) form for decades or even centuries. My favorite example:
This useles piece of s*** exists like forever. Have you tried it? Well good luck getting a single drop of lemon juice out. Its design is unchanged for ages and you still get this in pretty much any restaurant for your tea. Noone has ever thought about it, it seems.
The simple solution when the peolpe in the restaurant use their brains:
A friggin lemon wegde instead of a slice. You can hold and squeeze at the edges without getting your fingers all messy.
…That was supposed to be my transition back to the usability thread.
The only reason this hasn’t happened yet is restocking fees. Also, I don’t have much reliable feedback on either unit as they are both very new. (Not big on being a beta tester for products)
Just to show an example from what is happening today: I have not yet put on my headphones today. The reason is the BTR5 did this thing where it doesn’t charge and was dead in the morning (This is because of a combination of the mode it is in and the power supply it is attached to). I forgot to switch it.
The dongle wasn’t going to work today because of all the hands on phone usage. So, for today, I don’t get to listen to much music. (The BTR5 should be charged now, I just haven’t collected it and started using it yet).
A dedicated device would have been very helpful today. A dedicated device that could stream BT or Wifi would be really really good.
That’s why I am continuing to look.
And yes, I get that I am an absolute pain in the ass when it comes to UX experience. On the plus side, the products that I have any say in UX end up ridiculously good for usability.
I get that you can’t stream from you phone to your iPod. Why not use your iPod standalone? Forget about your phone for music, just do it all through the iPod.
I could for home/evening use. Absolutely. The problem with using it in the “mobile” scenario is the control side. And do I want an amp attached? If I attach an amp, it’s no better in bulk than basically any dap. And since the data isn’t coming from the phone, I have also lost apple watch control (unless I connect a second watch to the iPod. Yes, I have thought about doing that). Also, to be clear, for home use my iPhone is fine as well. So would connecting an amp to my iPhone via a long cable for home/post workday usage.
Now, an iPod Touch using the headphone jack, yes, that might work simply because the iPod touch is so small. I’ve put one in a wrist holder and been fine with it. (Never tried that for the purposes of headphones with a cable though. It was for something I needed dedicated control)
Basically, an iPod Touch is no better than any functional dap. It certainly doesn’t beat a BTR5 for usability on the mobile side. And it doesn’t beat a dap for use on the home side (without an attached amp).
If something like the hiby r6 or dx300 don’t create a happy medium, then I will have to make a choice.
Fun Fact: something like 2nd Apple Watch → iPod Touch → iDSD Signature → Dunu Zen would still cost less than the dx300. So, yeah, that’s not ruled out.
Get a dedicated DAP and some serious IEMs with it. Leave the phone in your pocket and start enjoying music instead of looking at your phone too often. Less screentime=more musictime😜
We understand you, believe me. And our wifes deserve nothing but the best.
But seriously, I was having an issue running around with 2 devices too a while ago. I got used to it and now I even carry the N8, which is a friggin’ brick, with me. But maybe that’s just me. I am a perfectionist.
I even carry my whole 10kg photo equipment on a hike up a snowy mountain, just in case I might take a picture.
Could my phone take that picture? Yes, of course, but when I see the pictures afterwards, I am happy I made no compromise.
