I’ll watch that while waiting for the Elite hehehe
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Your mileage may vary…but I think the Elite is being quite underrated here. I bought the elite, somehow, when I heard they were out - I enjoyed the Empyrean quite a bit, and I understand the criticisms of it, although I feel that what it does right, musically, it does as well as anything on the market - but more definition would be necessary.
The Elite preserves the “musicality”, the diplomatic, no-showing-off qualities of the Empyrean, that rich midrange, that sense of cohesion, but adds in the missing SPEED - it is a very quick, responsive feel. The highs are opened-up and realistic, no glare while extremely revealing. The classic question as to whether the Susvara is 2K better is too subjective - they are actually rather similar cans, musically, with perhaps a touch of soundstage magic being the main area where the Sus wins, but it is not a matter of being outclassed - the Elite is an extraordinary set, and at 4K you get a balance of refinement, oomph, groove, image/space/stage, palpability, and delicacy which makes this an very live dog up against everything else at that price point (this bests the Utopia in most aspects, with a much more natural and glare-free upper end). It is an Empyrean after heavy-duty boot-camp training, slimmer, lighter, faster, more on-target, but with the same sort of good manners - which don’t obscure truth, but present it coherently and without editorializing.
I’m using audio files from an iMac, Bryston BDA 3.14 and Schiit Gungnir DACs, Bryston BHA-1, Schiit Mjolnir, and Woo WA5-LE amps, and Audioquest Fire and Diamond, and Wireworld interconnects.The Elite is extremely revealing, without spotlighting differences - I have three combos of associated equipment based on two DACs, all quite different, and the Elites are chameleon-like, very different character in each setting.
The Bryston is utterly neutral, fast, and revealing - nearly a perfect solid-state DAC and amp if absence of bouquet and lingering finish of blackberry and veal matters to you. The Schiit stuff is very good, punchy, gripping, way below the Bryston in terms of transparency and neutrality (been a Schiit fan for years, but even they have limits). This applies both to the differences between the DACs and the Schiit and Bryston amps. The Mjolnir is used both with NOS 6922-type tubes, and with Schiit’s own LISST solid state tubes - the Mjolnir is a good amp used both ways, but despite a more incisive and dry tone with the LISST tubes, the Mj is a slower presentation - good, engaging, but the Bryston amp is, to me, a gem, something which hasn’t been updated in 9 years because it didn’t need updating. The Big Woo amp is a great SET design with power, control, clarity, and precisely the element of euphony one expects from a 300B - and the Elite lays the differences bare.
I believe the Meze strengths are sometimes heard as weakness. The Elites, too, like the OG Emps, are self-effacing, emphasizing no particular character trait. They do not “impress” - they convey, present, deliver, without any of the softness the OG can impart. There is no veil to the Elites, and yet they become very different cans depending on what they’re fed, which includes great slam, grunge, delicacy, a clear view into the mix on - for example, one of my references, Zeppelin’s Trampled Underfoot. in this respect, they are near-perfect. If they’re a shade less so than the Susvara, then, well, does K2 have a self-esteem issue? It shouldn’t. And, yes opinions will differ, but the Meze Empyrean Elite is best described as an Empyrean with all the putative flaws fixed.
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Thanks for sharing your impressions!
the truth is that being several years old the street price for the susvara today is probably about the same as the elite and given the same price is not even a conversation IMHO
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I do not think it’s really fair to compare value of used Susvara vs new Elite, especially not taking into consideration the additional investments in the chain required to drive Sus properly
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He isn’t comparing to the used price of the Susvara … he’s saying that the price they can actually easily be had for new today isn’t any different to that of the Elite.
The MSRP/MAP that dealers have to show on their websites has little to no relation to what many of them are willing to sell them for. Of course, if you just do something silly like click “add to cart” and then checkout, without ever talking to your dealer, you’ll wind up paying full price.
Never wondered why an almost-new used Susvara on Head-Fi typically gets listed for about $3,600?
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Ok, now I got it. But following same logic the price for the Elite also might be “special” than? And again I think it is worth keeping in mind (and mentioning for a fair comparison) the required investments into the chain (unless someone already have a powerful setup) to drive Susvara well. This well-known fact often being overlooked in direct comparisons.
Not any time soon. And if supply/demand is anything like it was for the Empyrean, it’ll be a year, maybe 18 months, before there are any useful, easily had, discounts on the Elite. Not even considering the current global supply constraints … that were not a factor when the Empyrean launched.
I would say that a Susvara driven off a $400 Jotunheim delivers a much better overall result than an Empyrean driven off any of the well-regarded amps in the $3,000 to $15,000 range. May or may not be different in the case of the Elite (I haven’t heard it), but the principle stands.
And I say that as someone that is not a fan of the Susvara.
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I think the “required investments” is definitely something to consider but I think generally people like to compare a synergistic combo with both. It’s hard to know exactly how something pairs on someone’s particular system just from reading reviews. The real issue is there is this notion that the Meze Elite should be able to compete with the TOTL headphones like Susvara but when they are compared head to head, the Elite falls short. Not just in my review but many others.
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that the amplification for both are fairly different. I tried to use the Elite on my speaker taps but it was way too sensitive. Using the Sus on a GSX-Mini is a little bit limiting. Can’t really have it both ways considering how different their sensitivity levels are.
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Indeed. At the same time I think it’s important to be fair in comparison of a 4K$ headphone vs 4-6K headphone + required 1-2K$ amplification to achieve similar performance (volume) from the same source.
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I really haven’t heard Susvara out of Joutenheim, but from what I read/heard you need to invest at least 1-2K$€ in the amplification to get something out of it. At the same Empyrean (and Elite basing on it’s specs) can be driven from almost any source without need of amplification, incl. portable gear sources (allowing you to freely move around your place). I personally like Susvara sound, but it was on a 4k$ chain which is comparable to the cost of another TOTL headphone set. I think it’s important to mention this while making nose to nose comparisons.
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It might be important to mention it but I don’t think it’s as big of a deal you are making it. Anyone who is honestly looking to purchase a headphone that is $4-6k should know that good amplification is necessary. Either that person has been saving up and understands that it’s a requirement or someone just has a ton of money and can afford to purchase a similarly priced source.
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I think it’s still something vital to be considered in evaluating the value of headphones.
Definitely something that will be considered but is a personal choice for everyone. You can easily buy a Flux lab FA-10 for your Sus and that’s only $750 + ship. I would think even an amp like that would be good enough to show you the difference between Sus and Elite.
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I can only partly agree, since talking here specifically about Susvara vs Elite, this two headphones have totally different requirements for “good amplification” resulting in different level of required investment into an amplifier to achieve similar (amplification) performance of both. Not mentioning this in direct comparison is somehow misleading IMHO
Indeed this is a personal choice for everyone. My experience with the Empyrean (which I trust can be extrapolated to the Elite due to even higher sensitivity specs) says, that you can easily skip an amplifier in the chain and drive it directly from the source without no limitations. Unfortunately Susvara is not allowing that and you have to have an amplifier with no choice.
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Yeah, I’m not so sure about this. What is the bare minimum you would use to amplify Elite vs Sus? Are you saying the Elite requires a lot less? I gave a $750 example. How much money are you truly saving with the Elite?
I would not highly recommend NOT connecting any headphones directly to a source/DAC. The source generally assumes that the line out is at a set voltage and is not meant for headphone amplification. So regardless of picking Elite or Susvara, you will want to use an amplifier. I think you need to be specific on what you mean by “connecting directly to the source”. For example, the RME ADI-2 is a source but it also has an amplifier for the headphone out so that would be DAC/AMP. If you hook up a Elite to the back of a Schiit Bifrost 2, I wouldn’t recommend it.
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Sorry for not being clear
Yes, exactly the Empyrean/Elite requires a lot less power to drive them. You can truly save the cost of a powerful amplifier.
Of course, I mean sources having volume control integrated. I’m using Empyrean a lot with the A&K and it is a real fun! It would be fantastic if Susvara would allow this.
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Hey Andrew! Can we expect a video review anytime soon? Looking very much forward to your impressions
Yeah video is done, but we have a bunch of others in the pipeline at the moment - a lot of CanJam coverage to get through haha
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