So, I see this a lot - and it’s understandable because it’s not incorrect to say that the Harman target is ‘preference’ based. But let me be clear, they did NOT simply ask a mass of consumers what they preferred and averaged it. There’s a lot more to it than that.
In the initial study, the preference aspect was only used to prove that their initial premise was correct. What they did was they took a flat-measuring speaker in an anechoic chamber, put it into their reference listening room, and then used a GRAS43AG at a certain distance away to determine the in-room frequency response at the ear drum reference point. This formed their initial starting point, which was different from free field and diffuse field targets. Then they used headphones EQ’d to this new in-room listening target (along with several others from 2009), and tested it against the original FR of the headphone, and other target curves. What they found is that overwhelmingly people preferred the in-room listening target and its variations to all the other options, including the original tuning of the headphones in question.
Then, in subsequent research, they included bass and treble adjustments based on preference, which is why you see the elevated bass shelf below 120hz on the 2018/2019 research.
So they took a neutral souding in-room target and fouled it up with people’s preferences. I don’t see how this is different than how I described it originally.
(Edit: Not trying to be snide here. Sorry if it came across like that.)
The thing is, like a large portion of people in the community, I’m not looking specifically for technical performance. I’m looking for an enjoyable, quality listening experience. Technical performance is only a single variable in that equation, and there isn’t even a clear definition on how to quantify that. It doesn’t make or break the listening experience.
I think everyone will experience headphones and gear differently based on biases, experience (life, music preference, gear tried, etc) Can these experiences change with different gear and experience, most definitely, but that does not negate the original experience in my opinion.
Also, what is wrong with pretty pictures and whiskey? I personally enjoy both. If the above was a reference to the content I put out… know that I am not considering what I do to be anything but entertainment and “my” experience and “impressions” of a bit of kit, I purposefully do not put them out as a review as I find that @Resolve and @Chrono do a much better job of it than I do. As well as others like @antdroid and now retired @Torq I fully place myself in the enthusiast camp and like to present my content from that perspective.
Now, remember to be respectful of each other… there have been way too many passive-aggressive posts recently, this is not the place for it. If you have a problem with any member here, including the moderators and core team, etc please message one of the Moderators and the member you have a problem with and hash it out in private.
I don’t doubt/discount the elaborate process and equipment that you described. I take issue with the people and ears selected. Perfect process/equipment doesn’t solve flawed sample/population.
It’s fine if you’re not into it, and I am also more sympathetic to the audiophile audience - that’s why I use a modified version of the target, because I think you’re right that the samsung buds aren’t really appropriate for us (although Antdroid tells me that the gbuds are sufficiently ‘audiophile’… he knows best on that.)
But, to disagree with the initial premise of the research is to say that “flat-measuring speakers in an anechoic chamber doesn’t constitute ‘good sound’”. While that’s fine to say (this really is where criticism should be directed if you disagree with the target), it may be a bit of an uphill battle as far as speaker orthodoxy goes when it comes to ‘good sound’.
One other potentially interesting point that’s worth exploring is that headphone experiences are different from speaker experiences, and because of that we might want a different sound to what the in-room listening target suggests. But, the flip side here is that even with the in-room listening target in headphones, we don’t get an identical experience either. This is likely why users preferred more bass - they were trying to simulate that physical feeling you get from speakers, and that’s simply not available with headphones. But, in any case I think this is really worth scrutinizing more so than the initial premise of good speakers in a good room = good sound.
I enjoy the photos, and I know it takes a lot of time and effort to get them. I, for one, appreciate them in the reviews.
However, I certainly hope as much time, or more, was spent on forming the sound part of a review versus taking the pictures. So far, I don’t think this has been an issue.
Besides, how many times have you seen a youtube video that was an absolute dumpster fire for production quality and skipped it based on that alone? Reviews require a certain level of polish, or they don’t get seen.
My only issue is, you don’t seem to like the whiskey I like. You heathen. lol
First off, I never said that. Second, I don’t disagree with the initial premise of the research, or the research itself. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t apply to audiophiles at all.
Please don’t put words in my mouth. It’s a very big pet peeve.
In a way, yes haha. I’ve had some back and forth with Sean on twitter about that. Because he seems to think that the preferred elevated bass response is more of an adherence to ‘neutral’, while I think it’s a bit of a deviation due to untrained listeners’ expectations for what bass does with speakers.
My brother is a big cigar guy I have been craving one for a while now… but they hurt me ha! (too many throat surgeries) but damn if it isn’t worth it sometimes
Well, we can probably snip the last 15 posts or so from here and put it in the subjective/rejected thread. (I’ll PM Tyler with good whiskey suggestions to lift his heathen tastes into enlightenment.)
My initial questions on the Empy review remain unanswered tho.
I just put forth my honest opinion of my experience with my current chain and mindset. It is part of the reason I like doing the live impressions, as people can witness my experience with the item… is it perfect… heck no! Entertaining? I hope so =) I also just enjoy communicating with you all in the live chat =) to discuss the item and listen to some cool music suggestions… or not
Regarding the Empyrean… if you scroll up eventually you will come across my review of it… I had it for around a month and listened to it extensively and let multiple friends and other reviewers try it… it wasn’t for everyone… it was just as divisive amongst non-audiophiles as audiophiles… I think it has to do with the way the traces are in the driver… the treble seems to “beam” into your ear… at least in my experience with that particular set.
I will hopefully be getting these Empyreans in and will pair with my gear before sending them off to another reviewer =) These are “demo” marked Empyreans for this purpose… eventually, I would like to get a tour going involving them and getting a wider group of the community to try them and weigh in…
please, and if have a hook up for Cubans let me know.
